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While the WMSCOG has their own spin on what the Passover means and how it should be celebrated here's an interesting and possibly a more realistic way of viewing the passover. After the Passover meal Jesus did something that was really out of the normal way of doing things. He took the bread and used it to symbolize his body which would be broken for us. Then he took the cup of redemption and used it to symbolize his blood that would be shed for us. What we have lost over the years is something that the Jews of that time would have understood very well. Jesus actually proposed to his followers (the Church) with this act. When the followers drank from the cup they sealed a blood covenant with their future spouse. Let me explain. In Jesus time when a young man wished to marry there was certain things that he had to do. The young man prepared a Ketubah, or marriage contract (or covenant) which he presented to the intended bride and her father. Included in this was the " Bride Price ", which was appropriate in that society to compensate the young woman's parents for the cost of raising her, as well as being an expression of his love for her. If this contract was accepted by the future brides father then the young man proceeded to the next step. To see if the proposal was accepted, the young man would pour a cup of wine for his beloved and wait to see if she drank it. This cup represents a blood covenant. If she drank the cup she would have accepted the proposal and they would be betrothed. The young man would then give gifts to his beloved, and then take his leave. The young woman would have to wait for him to return and collect her. Do you not see the truth or the correlation yet? I'll go on. Before leaving the young man would announce, " I am going to prepare a place for you ", and "I will return for you when it is ready". The usual practice was for the young man to return to his father's house and build a honeymoon room there. He was not allowed to skimp on the work and had to get his father's approval before he could consider it ready for his bride. If asked the date of his wedding he would have to reply, "Only my father knows."
Jesus offered the "Bride Price" for us. We, the Church, accepted his offer and accept his offer everytime we drink from the cup representing his blood. He paid the price and gave us the gift of eternal life amoung others. After his resurrection he stated, " I am going to prepare a place for you ", and "I will return for you when it is ready". He then went to his fathers house and began preparing a place for his bride. The place is New Jerusalem where the saints will reside as the Bible says it. By the way, Ahnsahnghong said it as well. And who knows when Jesus is going to come back for us? Jesus told us, "Only my father knows." Jesus proposed to his bride in the evening after the Passover feast. We are his bride and it is proven by Jesus own actions and words. Anyone who comes preaching another doctrine other than the one taught to you by Jesus and the Apostles is a false prophet and a liar. Jesus paid the price for us and even Ahnsahnghong believed that and preached it till his death. This god the mother who's living in South Korea is a living, breathing, false prophet and liar as is anyone who is spreading these lies and deceiving Gods children. Accept Jesus the Christ as your personal Lord and Savior and he will reside in you and you in him. This is what the Bible teaches us. He's already paid the "Bride Price" for us, all we have to do is accept him.
renita.payno wrote:
Christians, is it written anywhere in the OT that the messaih would be betrayed?
Here's a short list of prophecies:
So, if the messiah was already prophesied to be betrayed, then jesus wasn’t telling the near future. He was essentially repeating prophecy in the OT just with more detail.
Boy, you’re rather excited!
I wouldn’t. Read something I knew was translated incorrectly..
Hal, how do they order the books differently in the Tanakh as opposed to your standrard xtian bible?
Hey, Hal. I have a JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh here at home (I forgot it was here until I found it searching for something else). Would you recommend that one? It would be a bit harder for me to use because I'm not used to the order of the books and the pages turn 'backwards' :), but I would start using it if you recommended that I switch. Even though the book order is different, would the messages in the books really be different than the NIV I usually use?
Cephas' Brother, I'll list the books in order in my copy of the Tanakh, and then in order from a standard Christian Old Testament (and I'll include the division names), so you can compare…
Tanakh (39 books)
Torah (books of Moses)– Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
Nevi'im (Prophets) — Joshua, Judges, 1 & 2 Samuel, 1 & 2 Kings, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel
(12 minor prophets) — Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi
Kethuvim (the writings)– Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, Esther, Daniel, Ezra, Nehemiah, 1 & 2 Chronicles
Christian Old Testament (39 books)
Law/Pentateuch — Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
History — Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 & 2 Samuel, 1 & 2 Kings, 1 & 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther
Poetry — Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs
Prophets (major) — Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel
(and minor) — Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi
It is quite interesting that Christians take something from "writings" and classify him as one of the major prophets. Thanks for the list Genny, I appreciate it!
I was told that the books after DT aren’t in chronological order so to read it that way is foolish. That’s what i was told. I only assumed the first 5 books and the NT were in chronological order.
Thanks, Hal. I didn't realize that Ezra-Nehemiah were combined, but as I was typing in the list I wondered about Samuel, Kings and Chronicles and thought that they probably showed the separation to help people like me who are used to it divided. Does your Tanakh use the same chapter and verse divisions, or are those done differently too?
Is 'JPS' the translation name, and would any labeled 'JPS' be the same?
This is what the publication information says in mine. Can you tell me if it's a good one?
Hebrew Text based on Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, copyright 1999 by the Jewish Publication Society
Translation copyright 1985, 1999 by the Jewish Publication Society
It's this one: http://www.amazon.com/Hebrew-English-Tanakh-Jewish-Publication-Society/dp/0827606974
Renita, the books in the standard Christian Old Testament are partly in order. The law and history books are in order, except that Kings and Chronicles are similar (kind of like a repetition of that period of time). The major prophets and minor prophets are also in order, I think, but just within their own grouping. The poetry books are not about history anyway. They do publish "Chronological Bibles" which mix the prophets in with the history if you want to see what was happening concurrently.
Cephas' Brother, about Daniel being moved from 'writings' to 'prophets' in the Christian Bible… I remember Hal telling us that the Tanakh doesn't count him as a prophet because he wasn't speaking prophecies to Israel (is that right, Hal?). But from a Christian perspective, he was speaking prophecies about Gentiles, and many early Christians were Gentiles, so it makes sense that they ordered him with the prophets.
So Hal, you are saying that my JPS would be a good one? Are all JPS versions the same, like all KJV versions are the same? (except for those divisions of the books you mentions, I mean the wording.) And do the chapter and verse divisions standard with the Christian versions?
I understand that you disagree that Daniel was prophesying about Jesus. I was just giving an explanation of why Christians would group him with prophets.
Thanks, Hal.
And thanks for explaining the Jewish view of Daniel. 🙂
Joshua wrote:
While the WMSCOG has their own spin on what the Passover means and how it should be celebrated here's an interesting and possibly a more realistic way of viewing the passover. After the Passover meal Jesus did something that was really out of the normal way of doing things. He took the bread and used it to symbolize his body which would be broken for us. Then he took the cup of redemption and used it to symbolize his blood that would be shed for us. What we have lost over the years is something that the Jews of that time would have understood very well. Jesus actually proposed to his followers (the Church) with this act. When the followers drank from the cup they sealed a blood covenant with their future spouse. Let me explain. In Jesus time when a young man wished to marry there was certain things that he had to do. The young man prepared a Ketubah, or marriage contract (or covenant) which he presented to the intended bride and her father. Included in this was the " Bride Price ", which was appropriate in that society to compensate the young woman's parents for the cost of raising her, as well as being an expression of his love for her. If this contract was accepted by the future brides father then the young man proceeded to the next step. To see if the proposal was accepted, the young man would pour a cup of wine for his beloved and wait to see if she drank it. This cup represents a blood covenant. If she drank the cup she would have accepted the proposal and they would be betrothed. The young man would then give gifts to his beloved, and then take his leave. The young woman would have to wait for him to return and collect her. Do you not see the truth or the correlation yet? I'll go on. Before leaving the young man would announce, " I am going to prepare a place for you ", and "I will return for you when it is ready". The usual practice was for the young man to return to his father's house and build a honeymoon room there. He was not allowed to skimp on the work and had to get his father's approval before he could consider it ready for his bride. If asked the date of his wedding he would have to reply, "Only my father knows."
Jesus offered the "Bride Price" for us. We, the Church, accepted his offer and accept his offer everytime we drink from the cup representing his blood. He paid the price and gave us the gift of eternal life amoung others. After his resurrection he stated, " I am going to prepare a place for you ", and "I will return for you when it is ready". He then went to his fathers house and began preparing a place for his bride. The place is New Jerusalem where the saints will reside as the Bible says it. By the way, Ahnsahnghong said it as well. And who knows when Jesus is going to come back for us? Jesus told us, "Only my father knows." Jesus proposed to his bride in the evening after the Passover feast. We are his bride and it is proven by Jesus own actions and words. Anyone who comes preaching another doctrine other than the one taught to you by Jesus and the Apostles is a false prophet and a liar. Jesus paid the price for us and even Ahnsahnghong believed that and preached it till his death. This god the mother who's living in South Korea is a living, breathing, false prophet and liar as is anyone who is spreading these lies and deceiving Gods children. Accept Jesus the Christ as your personal Lord and Savior and he will reside in you and you in him. This is what the Bible teaches us. He's already paid the "Bride Price" for us, all we have to do is accept him.
Joshua, I can see where your coming from with this, just like Elievalkyrie post on the passover vs the lords supper. I can easily believe this, and that… the possibilities are endless.
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