- November 14, 2017 at 4:46 PM#74239
Hello, I am an ex wmscog member, I was in a house Church of theirs in Calgary, Alberta for 9 months, I had many questions after leaving the group and I am encouraged to say I have been able to answer many of my biblical questions elsewhere. I am ready and available to help anyone with bible questions for another perspective that makes more sense. I have my testimony posted on Youtube if you want to email me: [email protected] I can send you the link, I also have many bible study videos and free resources for those hoping to gain a better understanding of eschatology and the Covenants.
I want to start a forum to help members who will inevitably leave after Zhang Jil Jah dies. I have collected resources countering many of their doctrines resulting in what I believe today about God and the Bible. This topic is subjective and encourages you to think for yourself, but hopefully, you will come to a better understanding of the bible as well. I will post my thoughts I had immediately after leaving the cult, and I will post links to my youtube and website, I may make videos refuting the doctrines of this cult from a healthier perspective.
- November 15, 2017 at 3:33 AM #74240
Thanks for starting this post.
One thing I can say as an ex member, is to educate yourself on cults. Continue to watch documentaries, understand techniques and methods used to verify the similarities.
I would also say, focus on yourself! (this does not mean don’t read the bible, or study) but take time to focus on yourself. Take time to work on dreams and goals you have / had before entering the cult.
Remember the value of God’s love and that that place was absolutely filled with no love. Just people smiling at each other and competing for cookie points that have absolutely no value.
Do something about it! Many people leave the cult and are so silent about it. Be loud, be heard let them know you are against them, but your arms are open when they finally realize they have been abused.November 15, 2017 at 7:56 PM #74242
I had an email to myself regarding what a current member wanted to know and gave me 10 questions:
, I am home now and I will point you to my youtube channel: </span>https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv-Xn1uOLel06zI4IsEhI8w?view_as=subscriber
1. How did you come up with the answers elsewhere?</div>
>Answer: After praying almost every day for 9 months for God to reveal truth, and for truth to be exalted in my life, I started seeing many things that were wrong with the wmscog doctrine, I took a break from the church after starting to realize how weak their teaching was, reached out for help, I asked friends, went to the largest churches and asked the biggest pastors for answers they had and what they could do to help me, and was unsatisfied for a time, until a good friend named Mitch Brown pointed me to a set of teachings on Youtube by Dr. Jonathan Welton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T1dawjOsKg&t=2319s<></
>Last Days Series: (1) Understanding Matthew 24 – YouTube
These videos only scratch the surface of what I have learned in the past year since leaving the wmscog.
2. Can you send me the link to your youtube video? Answer: done.
3. I am a current member, what questions can you help me with so I ask the pastor or group members? Also what verses to use to counter their claims?</div>
<div style=”font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, ‘Apple Color Emoji’, ‘Segoe UI Emoji’, NotoColorEmoji, ‘Segoe UI Symbol’, ‘Android Emoji’, EmojiSymbols;”>Short answer: Since you are a current member, I recommend reasoning out the answers in the bible itself like the Bereans in Acts who studied the scripture diligently to confirm that what the apostles were saying was true. This would be a different approach than to just ask the church you are in, however, if they have gained your complete confidence by now, then continue doing what you believe is right, seek and you will find. This would mean taking a break from the church, going through the 4 major eschatological views in order to choose which one makes sense on a more reasonable level, I am sure the wmscog has come up with an answer for everything, what you need to do is to come up with an answer for everything for yourself in a way which produces the fruit of the spirit in your life: Righteousness, peace and joy.
I remember a few questions that the wmscog could not answer very well, anyone can come up with an answer, but a good one is hard to find. here is a short list to scratch the surface:
- If Jesus cannot die again: , then how come Ahnsahnghong died?
- If God will not let his holy one see decay: , then how come Ahnsahnghong is decaying in the ground in South Korea?
- What does mean? (this has to do with Jesus not returning until the restoration of all things)
- If Jehovah hated the feasts of the old covenant: , then why do we keep them in the New Covenant, which is described as being established on much better promises?
- If The last days of the Old Covenant were being fulfilled in the first century: , , then Why do the last days of the Old Covenant last longer than the Old Covenant itself?
These are questions that are answered very easily and understandably on my Youtube channel.</div>
4. What is the Jesus new name?
Answer: The question is wrong, This question comes from the book of & , where the apostle John said these things were soon to take place , this posits the late dating of the book of Revelation in 96 AD as a false doctrine, instead we see that the synogogue of the Jews was still standing:, and was in fact Babylon the Great city: being destroyed in 70 AD. This means the name of Jehovah as the Old Covenant still had some authority/glory while the first tabernacle was still standing: , this means Jesus’ New name is really “the spirit” talking about “my new name” which is “Jesus” because God gave him the name above every name: , if there was an age to come which has a new name, the idea that Jesus is the name above every name is wrong, and yet he is a high priest forever in the order of Melchizideck in heaven, and if he were not in heaven, he would no longer be a high priest,Hebrews 8:4
5. Why does the bible say we must go to Zion where God’s feast are celebrated?
Answer: Zion was the physical mountain and physical city of David with physical feasts, The fulfillment of this is: A spiritual mountain with a spiritual city and spiritual feasting: Hebrews 5:14 , Hebrews 12:20-24
6. Why did God make mothers on earth the only ones capable of producing eggs and give life?
Answer: To show us that Covenants are how God makes us one with him, giving us immortality, Paul in Galatians 4 says “These women represent “two covenants” shouldn’t Paul have said these are two Gods? one is false and one is real?, and yet we see the New Jerusalem had already arrived on earth in the first century: Hebrews 12:22
7. What church is the true church that was spoken in the books of Acts – Church of God?
Answer: The greek word for church: Ekklesia simply means an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers. To discern the true teachers from the false ones, The only advice Jesus gives is: by their fruit you shall know them, he didn’t talk about feast days, and in fact Paul says to accept those who don’t keep the feast days: Romans 14:5-19
Sorry, In pasting this from my email I got a bunch of random coding text mixed in? it also deleted my bible verses, I guess this is for moderation?November 19, 2017 at 1:40 AM #74245
For Some reason I log in to my account on this site, and afterwards I click on this topic and it logs me out, but only for google chrome, I am using firefox and was able to get it working.
Just an update:
I just want to say people have been responding well to Preterism as an eschatological tool to combat the teaching of this group, I recommend studying it, even if you disagree with it at this point on your journey. It is 1 of the 4 major eschatological views.
It answers some of the major questions in scripture:
At what time was the kingdom of God to arrive?
At what time was the Last Judgement to occur? (fulfilled or future)
What is the nature of the Kingdom of God? (physical or spiritual)
How would Jesus come at his 2nd coming (flesh vs glory of the father)
When would the mystery of God be revealed?
What is the mystery of God?
If you would like answers to these questions email me at [email protected], I will give you a list of resources(websites, books, youtube channels, etc.)
The study of this topic of Preterism has done a huge amount for myself in bringing peace and understanding into my life! even though the wmscog is very far from this worldview in so many of the verses that they twist.
Thank you.November 22, 2017 at 10:38 PM #74248
Is Jerusalem our spiritual mother? If you don’t agree, why does the bible say she is mother of us?
Why do you think this church keeps growing even dispute of persecution and fulfills Isiah 25 and Isiah 60 where it says at the last days people will know he is their LORD and Elohim?November 27, 2017 at 11:17 PM #74253
Shadow: 2 Samuel 20:19 a city is a mother
Reality: Galatians 4:26 Jerusalem above, the mother of us all.
Reality in Context: Galatians 4:24 These things are to be taken allegorically (Sarai and Hagar) These women (shadow) are 2 Covenants.
The bible says that the Jerusalem above is the New Covenant, not a 2nd God. Since there is only one mediator between God and Man: the man Jesus Christ (2 Timothy 2:5)
Reality in Context part 2: Hebrews 12:22-24 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering,
Heb 12:23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
Heb 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
Since the New Covenant Gives us Spiritual Life in the only fulfillment of Adam and Eve, since Christ was the Last Adam, there is not another last Adam, because Jesus is called: The last Adam. Since this is so, To say that a lady in South Korea is The New Jerusalem is not true, because she was not around in the first century. Which The Author of Hebrews was teaching that She had already arrived.
We can see that the New Covenant is Canaan in Pauls words to the Ephesians 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Was Paul mistaken that they had already entered heaven?
Reality in Context Part 3: Revelation 1:1 to show to his(Jesus) servants the things that must soon take place
The New Jerusalem mentioned in The book of Revelation was to come “soon” “in a very very little while” and must have been written before 70AD because it mentions the Synogogue of Satan, which was the temple of the Old Covenant Jews, who had become Babylon The Great (See Revelation 11:8, Rev. 18:24, Matthew 23:35-36.) This was The full establishment of The New Covenant since the Law of Moses was Passing Away (Hebrews 8:13) and also why Jesus taught the Jews to keep every Jot and Tittle of The Law of Moses (Matthew 5) until the Israelite heaven and earth system had passed away.
One may argue: Double fulfillment.
This argument is dangerous and groundless, if a prophecy is given and has two fulfillment’s, one of them is wrong, OR one of them is mistaken as a shadow, the other, a reality. consider the next verse in the Olivet Discourse:
Matthew 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
This means that the Destruction of Jerusalem would be a unique and special event, fulfilling Deuteronomy 32:29, the latter end of the Old Covenant. The Same words are used in the Destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon in 586 B.C. in the book of Ezekiel 5:9 And because of all your abominations I will do with you what I have never yet done, and the like of which I will never do again
C.S. Lewis once said concerning Matthew 24:34 “It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible.”November 27, 2017 at 11:41 PM #74254
As for your 2nd point:
“Why do you think this church keeps growing even dispute of persecution and fulfills Isiah 25 and Isiah 60 where it says at the last days people will know he is their LORD and Elohim?”
1:This church is also shrinking, Even when I was in the group I found out about hundreds of people who left, this might be a sign to some, but I do not care how many people believe something, it may not be true. For example: Was Hitler right about the Jews? the Holocaust? His army kept growing so he must have been in the truth, right? Wrong.
2: Who knows maybe they are lying about their growth, that is not to say they do not believe the lie themselves, I would argue that even the leaders are deceived, which means they do not know that they are deceived, which makes them seem right.
3. They are not being persecuted like the first century christians in the New Testament were being persecuted. How do I know this: Well Paul admits it: 2 Corinthians 11:23-31 …Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one… This is not to mention the mothers eating their babies in the siege of Jerusalem, and the hundreds of Jews and Christians who were crucified by the Jews and the Romans, it fits much better into the fulfillment of Prophecy.
4. The Last days were the last days of Old Covenant Age. To the Jews, there were only 2 ages: Old Covenant, and New Covenant age which never ends. Acts 2:15-17 For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.
But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel: “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, This verse alone is Prima Facie proof that we are not living in the last days. The LAST DAYS of The Old Covenant Age are NOT LONGER than THE OLD COVENANT ITSELF.
5. If Fulfillment of Old Covenant prophecy is still happening today, Then We are to practice and teach the law of Moses (Matthew 5) Therefore it holds that: Fulfillment of Old Covenant Prophecy was to happen in the last days of The Old Covenant.
6. Isaiah 25-Isaiah 27 was fulfilled in the first century between the Cross and the Destruction of Jerusalem, Fulfilling the Exodus and the Destruction of Jericho. This is a large topic, ask me about it for more information.
7. Isaiah 60 was a spiritual description of the New Covenant which was being set up(Daniel 2:44 “In the time of those kings“) and was “at hand” in Jesus ministry. We See Jesus telling his disciples that they are the “light of the World” Matthew 5.
8. The Mystery of God and The Spring of The Water of Life is This: Colossians 1:25-26 : of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known,
Col 1:26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints.
This verse is prima facie proof that The first century Church had all the mysteries revealed, and that Church would not fail:
Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.<span class=”p”>
Since the WMSCOG posits the book of Revelation as being written in 96 AD instead of before the end of the Old Covenant, it is understandable how they would mistake it as talking about the end of the New Covenant age, The problem with this is the New Covenant has no end, and The Law which brings wrath was the law of Moses: Romans 4:15, but where there is no law there is no transgression which means : NO WRATH.
One Question for everyone:
Is God forgiving sin or is he punishing sin in the New Covenant?
Consider the Next Verse:
John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.<span class=”p”>
</span>November 29, 2017 at 7:38 PM #74258
Life on earth originally was asexual meaning cloning themselves. As you know everything is made according to God’s will, then why does the bible show Eve was the mother of all living (physical life) and have the role of mothers to birth new life?December 18, 2017 at 9:38 AM #74280
bentovo: Jesus said “I am the Resurrection and the Life” Paul said “Jesus is the Last Adam” it follows that the last Eve was being fulfilled as the Church of the first century. In our minds 2000 years later without any Hebraic concept of time or language, we think the last Adam must come again because we aren’t in the last days, right? wrong. The last days mentioned in the New Testament refer to the “time of the end” from Deuteronomy 32:29, Daniel 12 etc.
The text is clear on who Eve was being fulfilled as in the last days: 2 Corinthians 11:2ff
and I fear, lest, as the serpent did beguile Eve in his subtilty, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that [is] in the Christ; (Youngs Literal Translation 1898)
The “mother” of Galatians 4:26 put back in the context of Galatians itself, merely 2 verses before: 24 which things are allegorized, for these are the two covenants:
It is dangerous to add to Paul’s words and say no its not really the New Covenant Paul, but it’s really another God altogether.
When as it is written: 1 Timothy 2:
ho doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth; 5for one [is] God, one also [is] mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who did give himself a ransom for all — the testimony in its own times — 7in regard to which I was set a preacher and apostle — truth I say in Christ, I do not lie — a teacher of nations, in faith and truth.
8I wish, therefore, that men pray in every place, lifting up kind hands, apart from anger and reasoning;
Instructions to Women
9in like manner also the women, in becoming apparel, with modesty and sobriety to adorn themselves, not in braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or garments of great price, 10but — which becometh women professing godly piety — through good works. 11Let a woman in quietness learn in all subjection, 12and a woman I do not suffer to teach, nor to rule a husband, but to be in quietness, 13for Adam was first formed, then Eve, 14and Adam was not deceived, but the woman, having been deceived, into transgression came, 15and she shall be saved through the child-bearing, if they remain in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety.
Since Eve was deceived, it does not make sense that we learn from her, but instead relate to her as a part of God’s Covenant people.
In Jeremiah 31:31 when speaking of the New Covenant:
34No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
Can God not know himself, then know himself?
but as it is written: Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, …
This is talking about being made one in spirit, not a literal knowledge. Can God be made one in spirit with himself?
I don’t think so.
One more argument: Who does God make a Covenant with? Is it not with “us”. but the WMSCOG teaches that he makes a covenant with himself, and we are not to be known by God at all. (that’s what it suggests)December 20, 2017 at 12:45 AM #74284
What is the one thing Adam/males cannot do? They cannot give life/birth/egg. This is show us that Adam revealed who Eve was and the last Adam = second coming Christ will reveal who is the last Eve/heavenly Mother.
I’m sure you have studied chapter 4: Heavenly Mother
It says it that sermon, Jesus had the power to give life, but he chose to wait until the last days? Why?
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