- Topic
Victim Mentality, (taken from wiki)
Psychological research into attribution began with the work of Fritz Heider during the early years of the 20th century. In his 1920's dissertation Heider addressed a fundamental problem of phenomenology; why do perceivers attribute the properties of an object they sense, such as its color, texture and so on, to the object itself when those properties exist only in their minds? Heider's answer was to consider the object being perceived and the physical media by which it is sensed – the ticking of a watch causing vibrations in the air for instance – to be quite distinct, and that what the perceiver's senses do is to reconstruct an object from its effect on the media, a process he called attribution. "Perceivers faced with sensory data thus see the perceptual object as 'out there', because they attribute the sensory data to their underlying causes in the world."
Heider subsequently extended his ideas to the question of how people perceive each other, and in particular how they account for each other's behavior, person perception. Motives played an important role in Heider's model: "motives, intentions, sentiments … the core processes which manifest themselves in overt behavior". Heider distinguished between personal causality – such as offering someone a drink – and impersonal causality such as sneezing, or leaves falling. Later attribution theorists have tended to see Heider's fundamental distinction as being between "person (or internal) causes and situation (or external) causes of behavior.
There are two types of "victim mentalities"
1. Explanatory attribution: People make explanatory attributions to understand the world around them and to seek reasons for a particular event.
Ex. If Kermit's car tire is punctured he may attribute that to a hole in the road: by making attributions to the poor condition of the highway, he can make sense of the event without any discomfiture that may in reality have been the result of his bad driving.
2. Interpersonal attribution (many ex members fall under this category) Sometime, when your action or motives for the action are questioned, you need to explain the reasons for you action, interspersonal attributions happen when the causes of the events involve two or more individuals.
Ex. Grouch had a fight with the Cookie Monster because C.M wouldn't share his cookies. So when Big Bird asked what the fight was about, Grouch says its because C.M wouldn't share his cookies even though he asked politely, so to make himself the victim, and C.M the bad guy he also fails to mention the fact that Grouch had already asked for a cookie 5 mins before that and again 5 mins before and again and again, and had practically eaten all of C.M's Cookies.
Ex. For ex members: Cindy L. went with her friend to a church bible study, because her friend Robert D. really enjoyes going and was always bragging to her about her church. So Cindy went there and studied and really liked what she heard. Every one there were nice just like Christians should be and showed her love. But when she went home she thought she might look up the church to learn some more about it. She saw slanderous remarks and got angry. Next thing you know it she goes on the forum and starts leaving angry words and says her friend tricked and they tried to brain washer her into joining the Church, but she fails to point out the fact she came willingly and no one handcuffed her into coming, but makes it the church and her friends fault and they are the bad guys.
So there are two types which one are you?
in that same amount of time you could have watched videos on how groups control people and what your experience may have in common. Closed-loops don't allow for it, though.
I'm FTOS and my brain is TRAPPED
We didn't spike the punch Questioninginla, people came to believe on their own free will with a clear mind and sound judgement after plenty of sleep and being well fed.
None of the "control" arguments you pose have anything to do with recruiting new members, or the church experience of new members, you cannot then turn around and say we "tricked" them once they begin to disagree with later events.
Even the information control argument is stupid. All the studies are available, all of them, just go and learn them, they cover things like the controversial questions posted here.
You cannot complain just because you have to learn algebra before anyone is willing to teach you trigonometry.
How does the Cookie Moster even put up with Grouch? He's a mean old fart, nobody likes him. I certainly don't like him.
Sheesh, Cookie Monster, stand up for yourself!
Deception is ALWAYS force and always victomizing
144000 wrote:
We didn't spike the punch Questioninginla, people came to believe on their own free will with a clear mind and sound judgement after plenty of sleep and being well fed
More than a few have documented being up before 4 am for services required for salvation, not to leave until well into the evening.
More than a few have documented that they were not allowed to eat until the required time, including children; that doing so will prevent access to salvation.
Controlling groups just love to have communal meals, fyi. Gotta keep those followers in a homogeneous environment. The more time spent in it, the more people develop a new worldview that sees this as normal. Where do you have most of your meals, again? Just wondering.
144000 wrote:
We didn't spike the punch Questioninginla, people came to believe on their own free will with a clear mind and sound judgement
If that were true, you and I could watch videos about people just as zealous as you…those people being Moonies, JWs, Scientologists, et al. We could then discover similarities and differences. Right now what you have in common with them is that you're in a closed-loop system that does not allow discovery; outsiders are all wrong and always wrong; the leader and the doctrine are not to be attacked; anyone who does so is a blasphemer, damning him/herself with every word – makes it kinda hard to listen to those relatives that are not believers to offer any dissenting opinion, eh? For they will burn in hell by talking against the leader. You're right, no control there /sarcasm
And by the way, they all say this: people came to believe on their own free will with a clear mind and sound judgement.
It is an internalized process from within, which is why the blindspots are so large, fyi.
144000 wrote:
All the studies are available, all of them, just go and learn them, they cover things like the controversial questions posted here.
If that were true, people wouldn't have to sign non-disclosure agreements that get them sued when they share it after leaving the church.
Questioninginla
0/10 would not be trolled by again.
Let me explain to you where your brain is failing to function.
See, theres this time period, BEFORE anyone is asked to do 4 am services. Theres this thing that happens BEFORE anyones spends a late night in zion preaching or studying. And coincidentally, before any fasting is done, this exact same event also happens. See, none of those things actually happen: BEFORE A MEMBER IS RECRUITED.
People are preached to, and BEFORE they are a member who may feel delight and blessings in doing such things, Before any of that, and I just want to make sure you can clearly understand the time period I'm talking about here, see, its BEFORE any of that happens…
They willingly accept the truth in the bible and make the consenting and clear-minded decision to join our religion. They accept that the studies are true, and want to serve God and they hear about all our tenets of faith BEFORE becoming faithful members. IN FACT, proper observance of all our tenets of faith are advertized in the "Rebuilding Zion" study (the entire point of which demonstrates in concise bullet-point form all of the true commandments and how to keep them [in every detail] and that they are the sign of the true church), one that is usually required before baptism unless a new recruit insists on baptism immediately.
Exceptions include: Deacon-driven house churches, Youth-group missions, short-term preaching missions, or situations where its actually hard or impossible to study everything due to lack of resources or lack of time.
There is no such thing, as a 4am service, for somebody who hasn't had at least all of course 1 preached to them, you learn all of theese studies and all of this information is candidly put up front in a quick and timely manner, which, in most cases is BEFORE any of the "horror stories" which are being exagerrated now.
Now that you can reflect on your present and past tense understanding, allow me to demonstrate where you are again making assumptions:
There is no rule about not watching a video about the Moonies, where the heck did you get that from?
They had an abusive alchoholic captured on film as one of the church "heads" and they used control methods which were mandatory. We do not have "mandatory" meals. We do not have "mandatory" marriages (they may be discussed, but are not mandatory). We don't have communal living, each of us goes back to our separate homes.
If thats not good enough for you and your hoping to compare them to us some more, then that is not educational, because we are not the Moonies. I do not even need permission from my church on this one, because I wouldn't even want to listen to your close-minded drivel in the first place.
Also we don't think our family members are going to burn in hell, we are instructed to show extreme patience and show them good deeds and preach and pray for them.
Also "everyone else is wrong" is a ridiculously narrow-minded way to judge a faith. In almost all religions, even the most benevolent and accomodating churches, eventually say, as the bottom line "our way is the right way, and everyone elses is wrong". Hello, are you listening? There are hundreds of different denominations and all of them say "our way is the right way!" Even you are exactly the same, you say we are damned for not believing in your narrow minded assumptions, you too are guilty of this same thing. Believing that you are correct is NOT a sign of "control", thats retarded, can you even hear yourself speaking?
After all the lies and slander that have been exposed from people like you and websites like these, NDA's come as no surprise to me.
And if you honest to God cannot see that then forget religion for a second and go check yourself in with a psychiatrist.
And on a final note, FTOS' post nails what we were talking about earlier dead on. Honestly, you need to open your eyes and read, FTOS is making perfectly valid points.
Now I'm not delusional to say that everyone has a perfect experience in our church, at the end of the day Father and Mother is God, but we are still just human.
But a large majority of the nay-sayers have a victim complex exactly as demonstrated in OP.
The human beings you claim are heavenly are not! There is NO “mother god” and Ahn sure as he’ll wasn’t god! They are both just evil evil human beings. They have you unfortunately convinced other wise because of what a MAN deceptively taught you. It’s just that simple! I never understand why people make simple things complicated. Reach down deep in your soul, the real ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD WILL SET YOU FREE! ONE & ONLY! Singular!
I take back saying Ahn was evil because he never claimed to be god. Your higher ups in your organization are evil for twisting that MANS words!
Most people are taken in by information that shows only one side. You have rightly shown how listening to only Grouch's side of the story sounds like he is the victim. In the same way, Cindy listens to all the audio-visual inputs at the Zion and in the background of her own limited knowledge of scripture, is mighty impressed by all she hears.
She then comes here and sees the story from a different perspective. Now that she has heard both sides, she is able to better understand that what she was fed at the Zion were blatant lies about other churches being Babylon, Ahn is God because he restored the Passover, Ahn predicted he will preach for 37 years, and on and on ad nauseum.
Yes 144000, FTOS is making some very valid points.
144000 wrote:
Questioninginla
0/10 would not be trolled by again.
Let me explain to you where your brain is failing to function.
See, theres this time period, BEFORE anyone is asked to do 4 am services. Theres this thing that happens BEFORE anyones spends a late night in zion preaching or studying. And coincidentally, before any fasting is done, this exact same event also happens. See, none of those things actually happen: BEFORE A MEMBER IS RECRUITED.
LIE! LIE! LIE! If you are baptized near the feast the new member is told about keeping 5am service before studying about the feast. They will stick the feast studying in during the member's available study time.
People are preached to, and BEFORE they are a member who may feel delight and blessings in doing such things, Before any of that, and I just want to make sure you can clearly understand the time period I'm talking about here, see, its BEFORE any of that happens…
They willingly accept the truth in the bible and make the consenting and clear-minded decision to join our religion. They accept that the studies are true, and want to serve God and they hear about all our tenets of faith BEFORE becoming faithful members. IN FACT, proper observance of all our tenets of faith are advertized in the "Rebuilding Zion" study (the entire point of which demonstrates in concise bullet-point form all of the true commandments and how to keep them [in every detail] and that they are the sign of the true church), one that is usually required before baptism unless a new recruit insists on baptism immediately.
Again…LIE! LIE! LIE! Some people are baptized are 1 or 2 studies without knowing the full tenets of faith. Before baptism, people are not told about 5am services, father's coming day, father's ascension day, heavenly parents day, etc…all that stuff is sprung on the new members as it comes up. Believe me if I had been told about all of this up front I would have RAN FAST in the other direction.
Exceptions include: Deacon-driven house churches, Youth-group missions, short-term preaching missions, or situations where its actually hard or impossible to study everything due to lack of resources or lack of time.
There is no such thing, as a 4am service, for somebody who hasn't had at least all of course 1 preached to them, you learn all of theese studies and all of this information is candidly put up front in a quick and timely manner, which, in most cases is BEFORE any of the "horror stories" which are being exagerrated now.
Now that you can reflect on your present and past tense understanding, allow me to demonstrate where you are again making assumptions:
There is no rule about not watching a video about the Moonies, where the heck did you get that from?
They had an abusive alchoholic captured on film as one of the church "heads" and they used control methods which were mandatory. We do not have "mandatory" meals. We do not have "mandatory" marriages (they may be discussed, but are not mandatory). We don't have communal living, each of us goes back to our separate homes.
If thats not good enough for you and your hoping to compare them to us some more, then that is not educational, because we are not the Moonies. I do not even need permission from my church on this one, because I wouldn't even want to listen to your close-minded drivel in the first place.
Also we don't think our family members are going to burn in hell, we are instructed to show extreme patience and show them good deeds and preach and pray for them.
Also "everyone else is wrong" is a ridiculously narrow-minded way to judge a faith. In almost all religions, even the most benevolent and accomodating churches, eventually say, as the bottom line "our way is the right way, and everyone elses is wrong". Hello, are you listening? There are hundreds of different denominations and all of them say "our way is the right way!" Even you are exactly the same, you say we are damned for not believing in your narrow minded assumptions, you too are guilty of this same thing. Believing that you are correct is NOT a sign of "control", thats retarded, can you even hear yourself speaking?
After all the lies and slander that have been exposed from people like you and websites like these, NDA's come as no surprise to me.
And if you honest to God cannot see that then forget religion for a second and go check yourself in with a psychiatrist.
@144000
Tell me about those NDAs again and how all of the studies are available, for the two are contradictory to each other. When one is on the side of the truth, there is nothing to hide, you see. BTW, me gots Jesus on my side on this one, so best of luck to you. Luke 12:3.
144000 wrote:
Also we don't think our family members are going to burn in hell, we are instructed to show extreme patience and show them good deeds and preach and pray for them.
Please address how you interpret Matthew 12:31 when any of your family members challenges Father in any way. Convenient that ASH is also the Holy Spirit, eh? This is what a closed-loop system looks like. No one may challenge. But this runs contrary to the story of Thomas, in which Jesus openly provided examination of His wounds. Jesus is open for us. Those that close us off take us into the inner rooms. Newsflash, they sound authentic because they are good at it. When push comes to shove they find a way to circumvent the Thomas lesson to something that suits their needs. Closed loops don't allow for examination; just blend with the group and have warm fuzzies.
Communal living…..how many members live near you. I'm guessing you're within 5 miles of Saturday/Tuesday HQ.
If communal meals aren't required then start skipping all of them and see how long it takes to "have a talkin to".
Most members in the zions I attended live nearby. There are always the exceptions when some members have to travel great distances to zion. Most people eat lunch & dinner at the church, of course there are exceptions. People with dietary restrictions bring their own food. Those who dont like the food prepared go get outside food if it is nearby. Some church leaders make an issue sometimes when people bring the outside food into the church.
Disturbed wrote:
Most members in the zions I attended live nearby.
This still qualifies as communal living, fyi.
ty for the info, Disturbed.
Let us see how the leader of the 3 blind mice responds this time.
prtyeyes
Well your certainly entitled to your opinion.
Disturbed
Yes, we can clearly see that reading is difficult for you. I said that the "Rebuilding Zion" study is usually required not always required.
Note also that I've said beore you are among a clear and definite minority of people who are exagerrating their bad experiences.
So when I say "usually"
And then you say "Nuh uh it didn't happen for me!"
Then before you freak out and start calling people liars, you should put your foot in your mouth and understand there is a reason 1.7+ million members never got "treated" the way you say we treat people. You are confused because of very unique circumstances which do not apply to the church as a whole.
So when we say "you cannot blame the whole entire church for a few bad experiences in unique circumstances" and then you say "nuh uh I know everything because I can project my assumptions!" then that is why we reply "you have some kind of victim complex".
Questioninginla
You are stuck in a Victim Mentality where WE are the bad guys for trying to beg people not to slander us with their delusional lies.
You also cannot understand the concept of time, or that people had full access to all information and learned everythign long before any alleged NDA's. And I say alleged because they happen so rarely that I've never actually seen it happen.
You cleverly omit everything we do to promote knowledge and a full disclosure of studies, and thats the real key to understanding that its people like you, specifically you, who only tell half of the story, they only tell the parts that make their argument sound good, and they don't tell the whole truth.
You exaggerate what is convenient for you, and you omit what is inconvenient for you, you are beyond delusional.
Also, newsflash, you don't actually know as much about the bible as you think you do, your reasoning neglects bucketloads of verses.
And before you ask me to prove it to you: there are hundreds of different denominations. Just because you can't convince somebody that your denomination is right, doesn't make you wrong.
There is no possible way you can be this dense. I actually refuse to believe that you are this braindead. I find it far more likely that you are intelligent enough to distinguish the differences here, and that your doing it deliberately to decieve people. That is the only assumption I can come to.
I pray to Father and Mother that everyone sees your logical gymnastics for what they are.
Also lots of people skip communal meals, I used to go get jack in the box all the time with my friends.
I didn't get "talked to".
And nobody I know in four Zions ever got "talked to".
Please, show us more about how your arguments are based on assumptions Questioninginla.
Most members in the Zions I attended were spread out over at least 40 miles.
Some lived close to the church, some lived a medium distance, a lot lived in outlying cities within the county.
Please Questioninginla, educate me more about how this is communal living! I would like to learn more of your assumptions!
144000 wrote:
Yes, we can clearly see that reading is difficult for you.
Pot, you are about to meet kettle.
144000 wrote:
There is no such thing, as a 4am service
I said up and awake at that time….so that one could be on time for 5am service.
144000 wrote:
you say we are damned for not believing in your narrow minded assumptions
point out where I said that please.
144000 wrote:
Also we don't think our family members are going to burn in hell, we are instructed to show extreme patience and show them good deeds and preach and pray for them.
Noted that this was ignored.
144000 wrote:
Questioninginla
Let me explain to you where your brain is failing to function.
See, theres this time period, BEFORE anyone is asked to do 4 am services. Theres this thing that happens BEFORE anyones spends a late night in zion preaching or studying. And coincidentally, before any fasting is done, this exact same event also happens. See, none of those things actually happen: BEFORE A MEMBER IS RECRUITED.
People are preached to, and BEFORE they are a member who may feel delight and blessings in doing such things, Before any of that, and I just want to make sure you can clearly understand the time period I'm talking about here, see, its BEFORE any of that happens…
They willingly accept the truth in the bible and make the consenting and clear-minded decision to join our religion. They accept that the studies are true, and want to serve God and they hear about all our tenets of faith BEFORE becoming faithful members. IN FACT, proper observance of all our tenets of faith are advertized in the "Rebuilding Zion" study (the entire point of which demonstrates in concise bullet-point form all of the true commandments and how to keep them [in every detail] and that they are the sign of the true church), one that is usually required before baptism unless a new recruit insists on baptism immediately.
People are taught how words are synonymous with each other. For example, "clouds" = "flesh", among others…. This is a technique used in virtually all controlling groups. This changes the way the brain interprets and processes information, including auditing one's own (new) way of thinking, thus internalizing the process and viola, 'we make our own decisions'. It is no surprise, then that members may feel delight and blessings and part of a select group to know of such incredible secrets and thus of the chosen. Thus:
They willingly accept this 'truth' in the bible and make the "consenting and clear-minded decision" to join our religion, never realizing that word changes alter brain function. They then accept that the studies are true, but in reality we are all now agents of the organization that had to alter english words and furthermore we ignore the original manuscripts, such as "orthotomeo" in 2 Timothy 2:15; this word is only used once in the entire Bible, most likely for emphasis, but I prefer to ignore it or find excuses due to my cognitive dissonance.
FIXED.
I've explained it, you don't get it.
Whatever.
FTOS is right and the more assumptions you keep making the more obvious it is that someone with Victim Mentality is bending the truth to slander us.
I have nothing more to say, this is sufficient for anyone to read how bonkers some of you people are.
So I guess I'm lying about all the tenets of faith being taught to people baptized when the Korean preaching teams come and people are baptized after studying 1-2 subjects?
For those who do not know the Korean preaching teams are church members sent from S Korea to "bear fruit" Their purpose is to preach all day and usually however many people "accept" the studies (1 sometimes 2 subject-Seal of God, Jerusalem Mother) they are immediately baptized on site or brought back to the church to be baptized. This is why people are reporting baptisms in hotels, people's homes, shopping malls, restaurants, etc. It happens all the time. Most of these people have no idea about keeping feasts, fasting, etc. The reason alludes to Hebrews (paraphrase) "You need milk not solid food"
Outside of these preaching teams there are many occasions where other people have been baptized after just a few studies. There is a sermon "Be Baptized Immediately". The churches claim is that other churches are wrong to make you wait 6 months to 1 year of studying before being baptized.
Proverbs 27:1
New International Version (NIV)
27 Do not boast about tomorrow,
for you do not know what a day may bring.
Fearmongering…to get baptisms…and voila…we've got 1.7 million registered members. How many of your members are active & tithing? Im sure the count would come down greatly!
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