Tagged: passover
- CreatorTopic
- April 7, 2016 at 1:18 PM#7975Mayor and MikeParticipant
It's true.
- April 7, 2016 at 2:47 PM #71477
UntouchableJParticipantIndeed
April 7, 2016 at 5:08 PM #71478
YAHWEHS CHILDParticipantDESTROY THE EXAMINERS
April 7, 2016 at 6:54 PM #71479
DavidParticipantApril 7, 2016 at 8:04 PM #71480
CG2021ParticipantWhat if millions and millions of Jews are keeping the Passover on the wrong date? According to this Jewish professor, even among the Jewish community they do not seem to agree. I’m not saying the article below answers anything, but it just shows that even among the Jews there seems to be some sort of confusion.
Why Pesach is now falling out of season?
IS PESACH this year later than it should be, according to the dictates
of the Torah?
The straight answer is yes. But if April 22 — on which the first day
falls — is considered late, think ahead to the year 2005, when the first
day will fall on April 24. Indeed, in some years — 1929, 1948 and 1967,
for example — Pesach began on April 25.
To understand why it is biblically inappropriate for the festival to
fall so late in the year, one has to consider the conditions governing
its date.
The Torah specifies two criteria. “The festival of matzot,” it says in
Exodus 34:18, “shall be kept… at the appointed time in the month of
Aviv.” In Leviticus 22:6, the “appointed time” is given as the 15th of
the month.
Aviv means spring, so it is necessary to determine what is meant by the
first month of spring. The first month is required on the principle that
a mitzvah should be performed as soon as possible.
Although the Jewish festivals are placed in specific lunar months, the
tekufot, or seasons, are governed by the solar calendar. The lunar month
which is designated as Aviv is dependent on a civil date.
It is generally accepted that the first day of spring in the northern
hemisphere is when the length of the day — which has been increasing
steadily since December 21 — equals the length of the night. This occurs
on March 21 in a normal civil year, and March 22 in a leap year.
How does one know which lunar month includes the first day of spring? In
the Talmud (Sanhedrin 13b), Rabbi Samuel, the son of Rabbi Isaac, states
that the first day of spring should occur in the lunar month while the
moon is still waxing.
The moon grows from new to full in the first 14.5 days of the month. If
a Rosh Chodesh (new moon) occurs at any time between the sixth and the
20th of March, then on the 21st the moon will still be waxing and that
month is designated as Aviv. If this is not the case, the next lunar
month is chosen.
The earliest date that Pesach can occur is March 21, and the latest it
should occur is April 20. Yet an examination of the calendar from 1920
to 2019 shows the earliest date to be March 26.
Instead of the festival falling between March 21 and April 20, this
century has seen the first day being celebrated at some date between
March 26 and April 25.
Future calendars reveal a gra-dual shift of Pesach — and, consequently,
of the other festivals — to progressively later dates. In the century
from 2950 to 3050, the first day of Pesach will be found to fall between
March 31 and April 30. What is happening? And, more importantly, is it
possible to rectify the situation?
The origin of this glitch lies in the fixed Jewish calendar that has
been in use for the past 1,650 years. The calendar attempts to correlate
the solar year — the time the earth takes to go round the sun — with the
lunar month, during which the moon circles the earth.
The year determines the seasons, while the months — in their appropriate
seasons — determine the festivals.
The present fixed calendar is based on the premise that 19 solar years
are exactly equal to 235 lunar months.
Dividing 19 into 235 gives 12, with seven remaining. Thus, in every
19-year cycle, seven years acquire an extra month, which is why we have
Jewish leap years every 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 19th year of
the cycle.
The 19-year Metonic cycle is named after the Greek astronomer, Meton,
who devised it in around 430 BCE. It was well known to the rabbis of the
Talmud.
When, in 350 CE, the Roman authorities limited the authority of the Nasi
— the spiritual leader — in Eretz Yisrael, regarding the proclamation of
Rosh Chodesh, Hillel II, the then Nasi, instituted the present fixed
calendar, based on the Metonic cycle.
Although it was remarkably accurate for its time, it is not exact. The
235 lunar months exceed the 19 solar years by a little more than two
hours. Spread over 1,000 years, this totals some 4.5 days.
One thousand years ago, the first day of Pesach would have fallen, on
average, four or five days earlier in the year than now, in the correct
solar time span as dictated by the Torah.
Is it possible to remedy the present situation, and to halt the gradual
shift of Pesach?
In his book, “Rabbinical Mathematics and Astronomy,” Dr W. M. Feldman
suggests a new basis for a fixed Jewish calendar.
He demonstrates that if, in a cycle of 334 years, 123 of them were leap
years, the differential between the Jewish and the civil calendar would
amount to no more than 39 minutes.
It would take 12,500 years to accumulate a one-day discrepancy, instead
of the 230 years it takes under the present system.
Feldman proposes constituting the 334-year major cycle as a series of
19-year minor cycles, with the odd 11 years forming the beginning of the
next major cycle.
If Feldman’s 334-year cycle had been employed over the past 1,650 years,
instead of the present 19-year cycle, there would have been one less
leap month.
To make the festivals less movable in the future, and to accord more
accurately with the requirement for Pesach to fall in the month of Aviv,
one designated leap year would have to lose that status.
The next most suitable year for this purpose would seem to be 2005
(5765). By making it a regular year instead of a leap year, Pesach would
commence on Saturday, March 26, instead of Sunday, April 24.
The year 5765 would be the 89th year of a 334-year cycle, the 13th year
of the fifth 19-year cycle within the larger cycle.
From this basis, future dates could be computed, demonstrating that
Pesach would be confined to its designated Torah place for the
foreseeable future.
The year 2005 is sufficiently far ahead to enable one to compute, and
adjust to, the new system. Even the most forward-looking parents will
not yet have booked their sons’ barmitzvahs!
Dr JOHN ZUCKER
Dr Zucker is a research fellow in physics at King’s College, London
University.
From the Jewish Chronicle
11/4/97
April 7, 2016 at 9:34 PM #71481
UntouchableJParticipantAll things in perspective.
April 8, 2016 at 12:03 AM #71482
Mayor and MikeParticipantAnd what if millions upon millions upon millions of westerners are keeping christmas on the wrong date. And what if the Ukrainians have the right date? 🙂
April 8, 2016 at 12:15 AM #71483
Mayor and MikeParticipantThanks for the article CG2021, I found it interesting and helpful. I suppose I have been quick to judge and motivated by the threats we've recieved on this site to speak out about this.
The title of this topic is my opinion and I haven't done much research into it. 2 groups I know of are celebrating the pa-ssover on the 14th day of Nisan according to the Hebrew bible. They are the wmscog and the nation of Israel. And we know that the 14th of Nisan occurs once a year. Since both groups are celebrating pa-ssover in different months, one group is right and one group is in error. Personally I'm putting my faith in the nation and culture of Israel. Pa-ssover is their festival. That is my argument.
April 8, 2016 at 12:35 AM #71484
Brian TaylorParticipantBam!
April 8, 2016 at 12:39 AM #71485
gennyParticipantAnd remember, using the wmscog's own standard, setting their Passover as month 1, they have problems counting to get the 7th month feasts right. That is more telling to me, personally.
April 8, 2016 at 1:18 AM #71486
CG2021ParticipantMayor and Mike the article I shared was not about the WMSCOG. It was to show that the Culture and nation of Israel, in which you are putting your faith, is confused about their own Passover.
April 8, 2016 at 1:28 AM #71487
CG2021ParticipantGenny this problem of the 7th month feast. Does it happen every year?
April 8, 2016 at 3:36 AM #71488
Mayor and MikeParticipantOkay, lets focus on Israel. There will always be different groups, ideas, beliefs that don't agree, especially since the God of Israel gave his people singleness of heart and action.
Its seems that a few of them wish to establish a fixed calendar that is governed by the sun. That could be a problem. But the lunar calendar is simple when you follow the rules. The seasons don't always arrive at a fixed time either. And if you don't observe a lunar leap year you'll be celebrating passover at Christmas.
If you celebrate the passover on March 22 at the spring equinox, it doesn't necessarily mean it's spring time. My grass is still brown. 🙁
April 8, 2016 at 4:21 AM #71489
UntouchableJParticipant@CG2021 Do you believe the COG got this years date right?
April 8, 2016 at 2:43 PM #71490
CG2021ParticipantUntouchableJ I think the following question is a little more appropriate: who determines what the right dates are?
April 8, 2016 at 4:36 PM #71491
MountainMomParticipantCG2021 wrote:
UntouchableJ I think the following question is a little more appropriate: who determines what the right dates are?
No, I think Untouchable's question was entirely appropriate. Is it possible to answer it with a yes or no? Why not?
April 8, 2016 at 4:39 PM #71492
gennyParticipantCG2021 wrote:
Genny this problem of the 7th month feast. Does it happen every year?
Not every year. With the records available online, it has happened in 2005, 2008, 2010, and 2013.
April 8, 2016 at 8:07 PM #71493
Mayor and MikeParticipantI like CG2021 question. Who determines the dates, and who should detemine the dates? If the nations want to keep the festivals, we can't all pick and choose what we want to do, there has to be one person, authority, or priesthood who we should follow.
April 9, 2016 at 4:35 AM #71494
CG2021ParticipantGenny so what about 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011 and 2012. Did they get the dates right those years?
April 9, 2016 at 2:52 PM #71495
gennyParticipantCG2021 wrote:
Genny so what about 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011 and 2012. Did they get the dates right those years?
I will not quibble about being a day off, as maybe they counted the new moon from a different time zone. But in regards to counting 7 months from the Passover as the first month, they counted months correctly in
2003, 2004, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015
There was no online record for 2006, so I can't comment either way on that, nor for previous to 2002, as the record starts in 2003.
The incorrect years were 2005, 2008, 2010, 2013.
That's 4 of 12 recorded years, or 1/3.
April 10, 2016 at 2:29 PM #71496
CG2021ParticipantI see. Is there a reason why the dates are so random? And How come they don’t commit the same mistake every year?
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