[Joshua]

There are many recurring themes that seem to be making people stumble in their efforts to break free from the chains that have kept them in bondage. Please understand, I don’t have all the answers however, there are many resources and people that can help. Ok, lets get started. People keep coming out with the idea that Sunday worship is not in the Bible. I fully agree that the original Sabbath was on the seventh day. In our time we see that day as Saturday. (The day of the worship of Saturn.) How did Sunday become the day of worship for Christians? Jesus set the example. I know I just used a phrase that is common in the WMS but like Paul sometimes you have to go where people are at the time. After Jesus died for us he rose again. When was this? Everyone recognizes that it was a Sunday. If I were to stop there it should be enough but there’s more. When did Jesus meet with his followers? The Word of God tells us it was the very same day. That’s right folks, Sunday. You might want to dismiss this so far. Lets go on. Did Jesus worship the following Saturday? I don’t ever remember anything supporting this idea. When did Jesus meet with his followers again? It was Sunday and this is also when Thomas realized Jesus was alive again. Folks there’s more support for this but I feel that you need to be able to research some of this for yourselves. Keep this in mind. After the resurrection there’s no proof that Jesus kept the Sabbath practice. There’s proof that believers kept Sunday worship which also set them apart from almost all of the other religious groups of the time. Most groups met on Saturdays. The Christians really stood out because of the practice of Sunday worship. It’s one of the reasons they were persecuted in the early days of the church. Many of the things that will help you get past the Sunday issue should be researched outside of the Bible. This is one of the greatest things about our faith. It is testable! We don’t have to use the reason, “the Bible says so” as our only grounds. One thing that just came to mind. It’s heavily taught that Constantine abolished the Sabbath. We need to get past this myth as well. History teaches us that the earliest recording of the Christian church is 70AD and at that time Christians were meeting on Sundays. This is over 250 years before Constantine supposedly abolished the Sabbath. History does not support the teachings of the SDA or the WMS. Yes, the WMS stole the teaching from the SDA group. So much for revealing hidden truth. I think this is enough to get started with. Eventually we will need to address the holidays but lets start breaking the chains with this.

[prtyeyes]

[prtyeyes]

I remember that one day I did attended and I was convinced that Constantine had abolished the Sabbath but once I did my own research and saw it not to be true. Constantine’s decree didn’t change Sabbath to Sunday. He merely created the first “Sunday Closure law” because Christians had been worshiping on the 1st day of the week since apostolic times.

[Simon]

Not sure I buy your reasoning exactly Joshua, For example the first time was fulfillment of the feast of first fruits by resurrecting on that day. According to Luke he appeared to them several times over a period of forty days that would likely be more than the 6? sundays between so it is likely he appeared other days than sunday. 

 

We still do have Daniel 7:25 to consider Jesus changing the times and the laws is a bit fishy. (not saying its impossible just a bit unfathomable to me) NOT that I think sunday keepers go to hell and sabbath keepers go to Heaven.

[Joshua]

Prtyeyes, thanks for the follow up. I want to encourage everyone to research this and post what they’ve learned. I purposefully left some of the information I have out in order to give you the opportunity to learn on your own. I would be curious to learn of all the times Jesus met with his followers between the resurrection and the ascension. I really do believe that the last thing someone who has exited this group needs is anyone dictating to them what they should believe. One lady I’ve spoken to probably said it best. She said, “I studied my way into the group, I need to study my way out of the group as well.” Please do your own research! Iron sharpens iron just as we should be sharpening each other.

[donttrustzang]

@joshua

I must say that the resurection of christ has absolutly nothing to do with the Sabbath day. I feel like using this as "proof" is the same thing as wmscog readin the word "east" and saying its southkorea.

The Sabbath was set before God made the Jewish law. Gen 2:1. Even God jehovah kept the sabbath day. He rested on this day before he commanded anyone to keep it. So i cant see why jesus would just change this day out of no where  to the first day. Also, in my opinion, and the wmscog's, the sabbath day is a foreshadowing of the eternal rest in heaven.

This is another reason why i must be agnostic. We are all humans who have never seen the afterlife, but yet we are all pretending to know what we need to get there. Not just christians(850+ different denomenations) but also muslims, buddist, hinduism, judaism, ect. We all know that there is something else other than this world, what is it? idk. how do we get there? idk.

[Rain]

donttrustzang wrote:

@joshua

I must say that the resurection of christ has absolutly nothing to do with the Sabbath day. I feel like using this as "proof" is the same thing as wmscog readin the word "east" and saying its southkorea.

The Sabbath was set before God made the Jewish law. Gen 2:1. Even God jehovah kept the sabbath day. He rested on this day before he commanded anyone to keep it. So i cant see why jesus would just change this day out of no where  to the first day. Also, in my opinion, and the wmscog's, the sabbath day is a foreshadowing of the eternal rest in heaven.

This is another reason why i must be agnostic. We are all humans who have never seen the afterlife, but yet we are all pretending to know what we need to get there. Not just christians(850+ different denomenations) but also muslims, buddist, hinduism, judaism, ect. We all know that there is something else other than this world, what is it? idk. how do we get there? idk.

 

"I AM THE WAY, AND THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.  NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME.  JOHN 14:6  HERE IS YOUR ANSWER! BELIEVE IT

[donttrustzang]

Rain wrote:

donttrustzang wrote:

@joshua

I must say that the resurection of christ has absolutly nothing to do with the Sabbath day. I feel like using this as "proof" is the same thing as wmscog readin the word "east" and saying its southkorea.

The Sabbath was set before God made the Jewish law. Gen 2:1. Even God jehovah kept the sabbath day. He rested on this day before he commanded anyone to keep it. So i cant see why jesus would just change this day out of no where  to the first day. Also, in my opinion, and the wmscog's, the sabbath day is a foreshadowing of the eternal rest in heaven.

This is another reason why i must be agnostic. We are all humans who have never seen the afterlife, but yet we are all pretending to know what we need to get there. Not just christians(850+ different denomenations) but also muslims, buddist, hinduism, judaism, ect. We all know that there is something else other than this world, what is it? idk. how do we get there? idk.

 

"I AM THE WAY, AND THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.  NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME.  JOHN 14:6  HERE IS YOUR ANSWER! BELIEVE IT

……but thats not all! lol… it may be the first step towards this long confusing journey called christianity, but i wish it was that easy.

Zhang said the same thing, should i believe it? I understand that you are full of love and your attempts come from a good heart. but the last thing i need is another cult.

[Rain]

I understand, you are angry right now, I feel the same way, spiritualy rape, decieved, lied to, manipulated, but I'm not loosing my faith in Jesus.  I was looking for him and ran into this church, I learned alot, but I also did not believe, alot of the things they teach.  The problem was mostly mother, she is the one that became an obstacle for me.  Things happen for a reason, God knows what he's doing, even if we don't understand it now.  I trust in him, with all my heart and all my soul.

I would'nt join another church either, i think i will just stay on my own for now and pray that one day God will lead me to his true church. May the peace and grace of our lord be with you.

[Joshua]

Rain, I can respect your feelings and thoughts on this. I would hope that you would be able to find some folks to fellowship with. Not many people will be able to understand what you’ve gone through. I know that posting here helps and I would hope that you could find some people who know what you’ve been through to be a support system with.

I don’t understand a person claiming to be agnostic and in the same breath quote scripture stating Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. What do you expect me to understand about that? Please keep researching your way out of this group.

[Rain]

Joshua,i think you need to read again, I'm not the one claiming to be agnostic, I am the one standing firm in Jesus, I was the one that quoted John 14:6 for donttrustzang.  Reread all the post then you will understand.

[Simon]

Hal wasn't the first Sabbath command in Ex 16

[Joshua]

Sorry Rain, I did get it a little mixed up. Please forgive me.

[Rahab]

I love what you said about the woman ex-member saying that she studied her way into the group and now she has to study her way out. I pray that my loved one will one day have the same mindset.

[Joshua]

I hope so too. He’s far too important to God to spend as much time as he has in confusion. I keep praying for you guys.

[Rahab]

Thanks Joshua. You and yours are in my prayers as well. The next few weeks will be difficult for us, but hopefully a blessing as well.

[Reezbo15]

Hi All, I pray God really blesses each and everyone of you. I encountered this WMSCOG group about 2 years ago, and immediately after the 1st "study" I knew they were in fact a cult. But what like some of you may have already found out, even when you successfully exit, the wounds are deep – we endup overanalyzing  Bible verses, looking for prophecies and their fulfilments , my point is believe in JESUS and nothin/no one else! That was the first red flag with WMSCOG for me, I don't care how nicely you treat me, once you say a name other than JESUS and engage in a long convoluted fantasy tale handpicking Bible verses along the way, I am tuned out completely … A pastor once told me the most powerful tool the devil uses is not demonic forces, etc….it's a simple LIE. Don't belive me, checkout the very first sin's origin….there you go!

[Joshua]

I just had a thought about overanalyzing like Reezbo15 said. Follow this logic: God created light and after he created light he said it is good. By analyzing this we can assume light is good because God said so therfore dark is bad. Here's where it gets tricky: we are created to rest when it gets dark. Night comes upon us we get tired and fall asleep we call it rest. If rest happens in the dark and we assume that dark is bad or evil then rest could be assumed to be a bad or evil thing. If rest is an evil thing and God tells us to take a day of rest then he's telling us to be evil. Obviously this assumption is wrong! By overanalyzing even a simple thing like light we can be lead astray. I can agree that there are prophesies in the word of God but I will never agree that the word of God is nothing but prophesies needing to be analyzed and read into. We are not to be fools.

[ttr]

Joshua wrote:

I just had a thought about overanalyzing like Reezbo15 said. Follow this logic: God created light and after he created light he said it is good. By analyzing this we can assume light is good because God said so therfore dark is bad. Here's where it gets tricky: we are created to rest when it gets dark. Night comes upon us we get tired and fall asleep we call it rest. If rest happens in the dark and we assume that dark is bad or evil then rest could be assumed to be a bad or evil thing. If rest is an evil thing and God tells us to take a day of rest then he's telling us to be evil. Obviously this assumption is wrong! By overanalyzing even a simple thing like light we can be lead astray. I can agree that there are prophesies in the word of God but I will never agree that the word of God is nothing but prophesies needing to be analyzed and read into. We are not to be fools.

that's a good example of how you can twist text to make it say anything you want to.  sounds like a WMS bible study.  come up with the idea then work backwards and find a way to make the Bible say it.

[jl]

despues que jesus murio y resucito los apostoles siguieron guardando el dia sabado, Hc 17:2-4 y Hc 18:4 el sabado es una verdad absoluta amigos

[genny]

translation of what jl said,

"After Jesus died and rose again the apostles continued keeping the Sabbath, Hc Hc 17:2-4 and 18:4 on Saturday is an absolute truth friends"

[Joshua]

jl, I'm afraid you have been taught one of the most effective teachings of the Seventh Day Adventist. It is designed to turn you against every church that celebrates God on Sundays. The main point of this teaching leads you to a belief that anyone who worships on Sunday is following a lie and as Satan is the father of lies then everyone who worships on Sunday is following Satan. If you were in a church that met on Sundays before learning this teaching you would be forced into a choice. Follow God or follow Satan. Here's what they did not teach you. I'll start with the definition of Sabbath. I know that this group does stuff like even pulling out the Websters dictionary to prove that the Sabbath is Saturday. Check this out! The definitions in the back of the New King James Bible state this: Sabbath – The day of rest ordained by God. Among Jews, the seventh day (Saturday); among Christians, the first day of the week (Sunday), the day of divine worship (1 Cor 16:2). This alone puts a dent in the WMSCOG's and the SDA teachings about the Sabbath. Did they tell you about this definition? Did you take anytime to research it for yourself? Lets go on. You stated that after the resurrection the Apostles continued keeping the Saturday Sabbath and you labled this "absolute truth". While I'm sure that we can all agree that the Apostles went into the temple and taught on Saturdays I can fully disagree with the idea that they were keeping the traditional Saturday Sabbath. Just like Paul, the Apostles went to where the people were gathered, met them where they lived and on their turf. The Apostles went into the temple to teach the Jews that the Messiah had already come and that the Jews for the most part had missed it. They went through the scrolls teaching the Jews the signs that proved that Jesus was the Messiah that they had been waiting for. They were working in the mission field on Saturday. The Bible rechords that the Apostles and believers of Christ gathered and broke bread on Sundays. Here's another BIG dent in the heavily flawed Saturday Sabbath study. Here's the truth that does it for most people: do you think that Jesus was a sinner? If you do then this conversation is over because the WMSCOG believes that Ahn was the reencarnation of Jesus Christ and therfore perfect. Of course Jesus was not a sinner! After Jesus resurrected on SUNDAY when did he meet with his diciples? Answer: The very same day, SUNDAY. When was the next time he met with them? Answer: One week later, SUNDAY. There is no mention anywhere in the Word of God about Jesus going to the temple on Saturday after the resurrection or even keeping the Saturday Sabbath. He showed his followers the example of the new Sabbath and just like Christians of that day we continue to celebrate and worship on the Lords Day, Sunday. If you want to lable something "absolute truth" I would suggest that you start with this right after you lable Jesus's sacrifice first. I want to encourage you to step out from under this groups influence for a while. Don't go to them for guidance or with your questions. Start doing your own research on these topics that have been presented to you as "truth". As you grow in your knowledge you are going to find out that the deception that you were trying to avoid is solidly in the WMSCOG. No one can make you realize the truth of what I'm telling you. You have to find out for yourself but as I have told many others, the truth will set you free. You are a child of God and do not deserve to be deceived by any kind of destructive and controlling group. Take the time, do the research, believe in Jesus Christ alone, and free yourself. We are here to help if you should need us.