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This comment was originally left on Missionary Ron Ramos Explains Why He Left the WMSCOG After 12 Years – A Former Member's Story
The True WMSCOG writes:
http://www.thetruewmscog.com/hassan-and-the-wmscog/
Come see the discrepancies in Hassan's and Ron's statements.
Also I am aware that the membership had smaller numbers when they first started, but, surprise surprise they included black members even then and told them they had eternal life.
Please, lets make it even easier to see how big of a fib your telling.
I have been in the truth for a long time, I was there six years before he left and I talked to everyone, and even prior to that I was studying for a year and networking within the church.
I also spoke with black members who were in the truth for many years before that, black members who were there in the “early days” of the church.
Nobody ever descriminated against them and many of them did exist, contrary to all of Ron’s lies.
Face it, your exposed. He’s exposed. This website has been examined for the lie that it is.
You don’t need to know anything else about me, the facts stand for themselves.
I have been in the truth for a long time, I was there six years before he left and I talked to everyone, and even prior to that I was studying for a year and networking within the church.
I also spoke with black members who were in the truth for many years before that, black members who were there in the “early days” of the church.
Nobody ever descriminated against them and many of them did exist, contrary to all of Ron’s lies.
Face it, your exposed. He’s exposed. This website has been examined for the lie that it is.
You don’t need to know anything else about me, the facts stand for themselves.
144000
you are too funny!!!
Once again I will tell you. The creditbility of the church sucks!!! They have been lying since 1985!!!Ron, on the other hand is a VICTIM!!!! Just like you are, and you don't realize it yet. When the day comes I wish I could see your face and know how YOU will get your LIFE back!
Are your parents in this church? So, you became a member in or around 2005. So what!!! Silly person, what about the first members in downtown LA?? They saw the beginning of this cult and were used by these heathens! Are they still in the church??? No!!! They also left in 2011 that's when the SH__T hit the fan and finally their lies are exposed!1
How many more will be a VICTIM of this CULT???? HOW many MORE will be EMOTIONALLY effected by their lies!!
Time will tell and you my victim will know the TRUTH and the TRUTH will set you free!!
144000
you are too funny!!!
Once again I will tell you. The creditbility of the church sucks!!! They have been lying since 1985!!!Ron, on the other hand is a VICTIM!!!! Just like you are, and you don't realize it yet. When the day comes I wish I could see your face and know how YOU will get your LIFE back!
Are your parents in this church? So, you became a member in or around 2005. So what!!! Silly person, what about the first members in downtown LA?? They saw the beginning of this cult and were used by these heathens! Are they still in the church??? No!!! They also left in 2011 that's when the SH__T hit the fan and finally their lies are exposed!1
How many more will be a VICTIM of this CULT???? HOW many MORE will be EMOTIONALLY effected by their lies!!
Time will tell and you my victim will know the TRUTH and the TRUTH will set you free!!
If I follow 144000's logic the following shall prevail:
There may have been a black demographic (large, small, does not matter) in the "early days". Let's assume there was some black membership and give 144000 the upper hand here. Then by 144000's logic all of Ron's testimony is out the window…
The True WMSCOG claims that Ron used Hassan and the BITE model exclusively, as seen at the 1:21 mark of Examining Hassan Part 3. "Ron bases his idea of the Church of God being a cult based upon Hassan's BITE model and not from his own reasoning". Wait for it, folks, this gets goooood…
In the original Hassan post from which the clips are taken, at the 1:36 mark Ron says, on this subject, "after speaking with Steve and looking at his website and doing some research on my own"!
So, by 144000's very own logic we should consider that The True WMSCOG is a liar and disregard all 3 videos.
Checkmate, 144000. It's way too easy when one is on this side of the truth.
If I follow 144000's logic the following shall prevail:
There may have been a black demographic (large, small, does not matter) in the "early days". Let's assume there was some black membership and give 144000 the upper hand here. Then by 144000's logic all of Ron's testimony is out the window…
The True WMSCOG claims that Ron used Hassan and the BITE model exclusively, as seen at the 1:21 mark of Examining Hassan Part 3. "Ron bases his idea of the Church of God being a cult based upon Hassan's BITE model and not from his own reasoning". Wait for it, folks, this gets goooood…
In the original Hassan post from which the clips are taken, at the 1:36 mark Ron says, on this subject, "after speaking with Steve and looking at his website and doing some research on my own"!
So, by 144000's very own logic we should consider that The True WMSCOG is a liar and disregard all 3 videos.
Checkmate, 144000. It's way too easy when one is on this side of the truth.
144000 wrote:
Truth, watch Ron's original video starting at 11:11 again and again all of you people fail to realise Ron literally said "there were no blacks at all"
I am blown away by how forgetful you are.
But wait there is more.
After Ron says that there is no blacks "at all" he then says: we were told not to preach to blacks anymore
Which not only contradicts himself, but Ron when did you say this happened "two years before I left"
Thats 2010 right?
Well, the truth is blacks were never discriminated against, the truth is we had hundreds of black members per church (especially in all the Zions in southern california where Ron was), and the truth is we always told them they had eternal life, and the truth is we never stopped preaching to them.
The truth is, Ron was lying.
Please, deny it more, I hope every single one of you can get caught lying here.
More than that I hope you realize this titanic stupidity and come to repent in Zion, never to persecute brothers and sisters ever again.
"Hundreds of black members per church"? Really? And how many members total per church were there at this time you are thinking of?
I recall being in a Southern California service around that time, and I'd estimate that the sanctuary held maybe 500 people. If that church had "hundreds of black members," then are you saying that about half of the church was black? Really? Are you perhaps exaggerating?
Is it possible, since Ron was in the church 6 years earlier than you and was of a higher rank (I assume) than you, that there is something he experienced and things he was told by superiors that you don't know about?
I find it interesting that you hold Ron to a higher standard of accuracy that you do your own 'Father and Mother'-authorized writings. Here are a few examples.
Ahn said that Egyptians who put the blood of the Passover on their houses were saved, but the Bible says that every Egyptian house had someone dead.
Ahn said that Jesus preached in the temple everyday during the Feast of Tabernacles (John 7), but the Bible says that He only started preaching half way through the feast.
An official sermon said that the command in Rev. 2:10 were spoken by the Archangel Michael, but the Bible says that Jesus was speaking those words.
An official sermon says that Moses always obeyed God's will, but he disobeyed God at Meribah.
An official sermon says that Thomas Edison prayed and God gave him the idea for the light bulb, but Edison denied the existence of God.
The wmscog teaches that the correct feast dates are essential, but there were several years when they kept the 7th month feasts in the 8th month instead. (We've got a whole thread on that one.)
And official doctrine teaches that the Ostrogoths were destroyed in 538, when they definitely were not destroyed until much later. (We've got a whole thread on that one too.)
I suggest you take that same level of scrutiny you are using with Ron and use it also with your own organization.
144000 wrote:
Truth, watch Ron's original video starting at 11:11 again and again all of you people fail to realise Ron literally said "there were no blacks at all"
I am blown away by how forgetful you are.
But wait there is more.
After Ron says that there is no blacks "at all" he then says: we were told not to preach to blacks anymore
Which not only contradicts himself, but Ron when did you say this happened "two years before I left"
Thats 2010 right?
Well, the truth is blacks were never discriminated against, the truth is we had hundreds of black members per church (especially in all the Zions in southern california where Ron was), and the truth is we always told them they had eternal life, and the truth is we never stopped preaching to them.
The truth is, Ron was lying.
Please, deny it more, I hope every single one of you can get caught lying here.
More than that I hope you realize this titanic stupidity and come to repent in Zion, never to persecute brothers and sisters ever again.
"Hundreds of black members per church"? Really? And how many members total per church were there at this time you are thinking of?
I recall being in a Southern California service around that time, and I'd estimate that the sanctuary held maybe 500 people. If that church had "hundreds of black members," then are you saying that about half of the church was black? Really? Are you perhaps exaggerating?
Is it possible, since Ron was in the church 6 years earlier than you and was of a higher rank (I assume) than you, that there is something he experienced and things he was told by superiors that you don't know about?
I find it interesting that you hold Ron to a higher standard of accuracy that you do your own 'Father and Mother'-authorized writings. Here are a few examples.
Ahn said that Egyptians who put the blood of the Passover on their houses were saved, but the Bible says that every Egyptian house had someone dead.
Ahn said that Jesus preached in the temple everyday during the Feast of Tabernacles (John 7), but the Bible says that He only started preaching half way through the feast.
An official sermon said that the command in Rev. 2:10 were spoken by the Archangel Michael, but the Bible says that Jesus was speaking those words.
An official sermon says that Moses always obeyed God's will, but he disobeyed God at Meribah.
An official sermon says that Thomas Edison prayed and God gave him the idea for the light bulb, but Edison denied the existence of God.
The wmscog teaches that the correct feast dates are essential, but there were several years when they kept the 7th month feasts in the 8th month instead. (We've got a whole thread on that one.)
And official doctrine teaches that the Ostrogoths were destroyed in 538, when they definitely were not destroyed until much later. (We've got a whole thread on that one too.)
I suggest you take that same level of scrutiny you are using with Ron and use it also with your own organization.
144000 wrote:
I'm done replying to Renita she can go back and read how the origins of a birthday party are different than the origins of a yule tree. One is a physical item which is a pagan idol, one is not.
Yet again you ignore the fact that I never said birthdays were pagan I simply said birthdays were man made. And you're not done replying to me. You will still read my comments and you will respond. Maybe not on the thread but what I say will run through your mind and you will comment back at the very least in your thoughts. =)
144000 wrote:
I'm done replying to Renita she can go back and read how the origins of a birthday party are different than the origins of a yule tree. One is a physical item which is a pagan idol, one is not.
Yet again you ignore the fact that I never said birthdays were pagan I simply said birthdays were man made. And you're not done replying to me. You will still read my comments and you will respond. Maybe not on the thread but what I say will run through your mind and you will comment back at the very least in your thoughts. =)
Nice way to dodge the fact that he lied Truth, your mental gymnastics are a wonder to behold.
Questioninginla:
But didn’t you JUST say “after speaking with Steve”? It isn’t a great leap of logic to claim that Ron was influenced by Steve and his Bite model. In fact, that he was persuaded into telling that many lies suggests that “his own research” played no part in him being able to tell a true story.
Genny:
There is more black people now than then, that is the time period of “hundreds” of blacks and yeah actually I would have to say that four out of the four Zions I’ve been to are half-black, and there are even black members who are deacons and higher.
The earlier you go the smaller those numbers are but the ratio is about the same.
Also no, your criticism is proven wrong by the black members who WERE part of the truth when it first started in LA, whom I have not only spoken to, but know intimately because one of them was instrumental in my Baptism and we’ve been best friends ever since.
Also, like many of your examples, those contradictions only sound like contradictions because your not telling the whole story, which includes exceptions.
If I say “I’m going to kill all the egyptians” and they I say “every egyptian house had a death” and then I say “except for a few people” you can clearly understand my train of thought and no lies have been told.
Renita:
I did not ignore it, previous posts will detail what is and is not important, past that I do not care and I’m not going to discuss it further.
Nice way to dodge the fact that he lied Truth, your mental gymnastics are a wonder to behold.
Questioninginla:
But didn’t you JUST say “after speaking with Steve”? It isn’t a great leap of logic to claim that Ron was influenced by Steve and his Bite model. In fact, that he was persuaded into telling that many lies suggests that “his own research” played no part in him being able to tell a true story.
Genny:
There is more black people now than then, that is the time period of “hundreds” of blacks and yeah actually I would have to say that four out of the four Zions I’ve been to are half-black, and there are even black members who are deacons and higher.
The earlier you go the smaller those numbers are but the ratio is about the same.
Also no, your criticism is proven wrong by the black members who WERE part of the truth when it first started in LA, whom I have not only spoken to, but know intimately because one of them was instrumental in my Baptism and we’ve been best friends ever since.
Also, like many of your examples, those contradictions only sound like contradictions because your not telling the whole story, which includes exceptions.
If I say “I’m going to kill all the egyptians” and they I say “every egyptian house had a death” and then I say “except for a few people” you can clearly understand my train of thought and no lies have been told.
Renita:
I did not ignore it, previous posts will detail what is and is not important, past that I do not care and I’m not going to discuss it further.
144000 wrote:
Also, like many of your examples, those contradictions only sound like contradictions because your not telling the whole story, which includes exceptions.
If I say "I'm going to kill all the egyptians" and they I say "every egyptian house had a death" and then I say "except for a few people" you can clearly understand my train of thought and no lies have been told.
Then maybe you could tell the whole story about those contradictions then.
For one thing, the example you mentioned about the Egyptians… That would be so, if the Bible had mentioned somewhere "except for a few people." However, the wmscog repeatedly warns about not adding to the Bible. Ahn added the "except for a few people" part, unless you can tell me where it is in the Bible.
144000 wrote:
Also, like many of your examples, those contradictions only sound like contradictions because your not telling the whole story, which includes exceptions.
If I say "I'm going to kill all the egyptians" and they I say "every egyptian house had a death" and then I say "except for a few people" you can clearly understand my train of thought and no lies have been told.
Then maybe you could tell the whole story about those contradictions then.
For one thing, the example you mentioned about the Egyptians… That would be so, if the Bible had mentioned somewhere "except for a few people." However, the wmscog repeatedly warns about not adding to the Bible. Ahn added the "except for a few people" part, unless you can tell me where it is in the Bible.
144,000 I’ve been around Reseda for a long time and the highest title held by an African American member is deacon there. None of them had baptism privileges until 2012 and he was moved to a different Zion when he received that “blessing”.
144,000 I’ve been around Reseda for a long time and the highest title held by an African American member is deacon there. None of them had baptism privileges until 2012 and he was moved to a different Zion when he received that “blessing”.
I do not know off of the top of my head Genny, but such topics which are tangential to the truth of Passover and the prophecies, are not a pressing concern to me for one simple reason.
God said he covered the whole earth with a flood and destroyed everything and everyone.
Yet Anak existed before the flood, and the descendents of Anak survived the flood.
Also many nations survived the flood and were visited by Noah’s family immediately after they got off the boat, even a multitude of nations with different languages.
Furthermore God is faithful to his promses, so it is indeed right to say he would have honored his word and spared anyone who followed his instructions.
What Father said was the truth.
I do not know off of the top of my head Genny, but such topics which are tangential to the truth of Passover and the prophecies, are not a pressing concern to me for one simple reason.
God said he covered the whole earth with a flood and destroyed everything and everyone.
Yet Anak existed before the flood, and the descendents of Anak survived the flood.
Also many nations survived the flood and were visited by Noah’s family immediately after they got off the boat, even a multitude of nations with different languages.
Furthermore God is faithful to his promses, so it is indeed right to say he would have honored his word and spared anyone who followed his instructions.
What Father said was the truth.
Freedfromreseda wrote:
144,000 I've been around Reseda for a long time and the highest title held by an African American member is deacon there. None of them had baptism privileges until 2012 and he was moved to a different Zion when he received that "blessing".
Thank you!
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