[serg]

The WMSCOG teaches to remember to keep the sabbath day holy.  They teach it is a mandatory commandment and if we do not keep it; we will not be saved. However, when Jesus Christ came, he became the fulfilment of that Law. In Matthew’s record of what is commonly called the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished” (Matthew 5:17-18).

Jesus went to the synagogue on Saturday to teach (Matt. 12:9; John 18:20) as did the apostle Paul (Acts 17:2; 18:4). So, if in the Old Testament we are commanded to keep the Sabbath and in the New Testament we see Jews, Jesus, and the apostles doing the same thing, does that mean we must keep it as a binding law? Within the New Testament there is evidence that the seventh day Sabbath is no longer a requirement. What I mean by this, is that it is no longer a binding law like it once was. The entire section of Rom. 14:1-12 is worth careful study.  The instructions here are that individuals must be convinced in their own minds about which day they observe for the Lord. If the seventh day Sabbath were a requirement, then the choice would not be mans’, but God’s.

It is frequently argued that if Jesus did not “abolish” the law, then it must still be binding. Accordingly, such components as the Sabbath-day requirement must be operative still. This assumption is grounded in a misunderstanding of the words and intent of this passage. Christ did not suggest here that the binding nature of the law of Moses would remain forever in effect. Such a view would contradict everything we learn from the balance of the New Testament (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15).

It is especially important to note how the word is used in Matthew 5:17. In this context, “abolish” is set in opposition to “fulfill.” Christ came “…not to abolish, but to fulfill.” Jesus did not come to this earth for the purpose of acting as an opponent of the law. His goal was not to prevent its fulfillment. Rather, He revered it, loved it, obeyed it, and brought it to fruition. He fulfilled the law’s prophetic utterances regarding Himself (Luke 24:44). Christ fulfilled the demands of the Mosaic law, which called for perfect obedience under threat of a “curse” (see Galatians 3:10, 13). In this sense, the law’s divine design will ever have an abiding effect. It will always accomplish the purpose for which it was given.

If, however, the sabbath day of the OT, bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what He came to do. On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish His goal, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today. According to the WMSCOG, Jesus did fulfill the law of Moses. However, we must still keep the Sabbath day holy. We must note, that the OT system of law required keeping the Sabbath as part of the overall moral, legal, and sacrificial system by which the Jewish people satisfied God’s requirements for behavior, government, and forgiveness of sins. The Sabbath was part of the Law in that sense. In order to "remain" in favor with God, you had to also keep the Sabbath. If it was not kept, then the person was in sin and would often be punished (Ezek. 18:4; Rom. 6:23; Deut. 13:1-9; Num. 35:31; Lev. 20:2, etc.).

But with Jesus’ atonement, we no longer are required to keep the Law as a means for our justification. Then why does the WMSCOG teach we must keep the sabbath? The awnser is simple. It is for means of justification. Unless we do not keep this command, we will not be saved nor will we be cleansed. This is to make a law seem "keepable". They argue that even though we do not need to keep it the way of the Law of Moses, it is still a command of God. Well is it? Of the 10 commandments listed in Exodus 20:1-17, only 9 of them were restated in the New Testament. (Six in Matt. 19:18, murder, adultery, stealing, false witness, honor parents, and worshiping God; Rom. 13:9, coveting. Worshiping God properly covers the first three commandments) The one that was not reaffirmed was the one about the Sabbath. Instead, Jesus said that He is the Lord of the Sabbath (Matt. 12:8)

The requirements of the Law were fulfilled in Christ.  We now have rest from the Law.  We now have "Sabbath", continually. Further, if the law of Moses was not fulfilled by Christ—and thus remains as a binding legal system for today or as the WMSCOG like to call it "the law of Christ"—then it is not just partially binding. Rather, it is a totally compelling system. Jesus plainly said that not one “jot or tittle” (representative of the smallest markings of the Hebrew script) would pass away until all was fulfilled. Consequently, nothing of the law was to fail until it had completely accomplished its purpose. Jesus fulfilled the law. Jesus fulfilled all of the law. We cannot say that Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial system, but did not fulfill the other aspects of the law. Jesus either fulfilled all of the law, or none of it. What Jesus' death means for the sacrificial system, it also means for the other aspects of the law.

Various New Testament scriptures state that Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament Law, bringing it to completion and conclusion (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15). In place of the Old Testament Law, Christians are to obey the law of Christ. Rather than trying to remember all of the individual commandments in the Old Testament Law, Christians are simply to focus on loving God and loving others. If Christians would truly and wholeheartedly obey those two commands, we would be fulfilling everything that God requires of us. Christ freed us from the bondage of the hundreds of commands in the Old Testament Law and instead calls on us to love. 1 John 4:7-8 declares, “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.” 1 John 5:3 continues, “This is love for God: to obey His commands. And His commands are not burdensome.”

Some use the fact that we are not under the Old Testament Law as an excuse to sin. The Apostle Paul addresses this very issue in Romans chapter 5. “What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!” (Romans 6:15). For the follower of Christ, the avoidance of sin is to be accomplished out of love for God and love for others. Love is to be our motivation. When we recognize the value of Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf, our response is to be love, gratitude, and obedience. When we understand the sacrifice Jesus made for us and others, our response is to be to follow His example in expressing love to others. Our motivation for overcoming sin should be love, not a desire to legalistically obey a series of commandments. We are to obey the law of Christ because we love Him, not so that we can check off a list of commands that we successfully obeyed.

I hope this evidence is good to show you that it is not required that we worship on Saturday as a binding law. People have every right to worship on the Sabbath and they should if they are convinced that is the right thing to do.  However, if any member of any church were to require a person to worship on the Sabbath as a sign of "true" Christianity or "true" redemption, then that is wrong.  According to Rom. 14:1-12, we are free. In regards to the law of Christ, yes that is biblical, but I'll save explaining that for another time.

 

[emil]

[emil]

Very good post serg.

[Simon]

If he either fulfilled the whole law or he didn’t he fulfilled not committing adultary and idolatry etc

Also Sabbath is implicitly reitterated in Matthew 24 and prophecies in Isaiah’s vision of the new covenant

[Joshua]

This is what Simon is refering to:

19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

 

What does it mean? Clearly Jesus made reference to the Sabbath. Does this mean that we are supposed to worship on Saturdays?

Note that Jesus did not say "Saturday"!

Lets look at this a little. What does Sabbath mean and what does it represent? Sabbath was made for man and it is defined as a day of rest. What about the winter? Winter is the time when things go into hybernation or slow down and rest. How difficult would it be for a woman who is pregnant or nursing to be active when they are supposed to be resting? From having a pregnant wife myself I can tell you without a doubt that there are times when she simply needed to be resting. Even after she gave birth to our children she still needed to take it easy. What adout the nursing part you might ask. When a woman nurses a baby what is the more natural thing for that woman to do? 1) Take a walk of hike? 2) Sit down, relax, and hold her baby to herself? How hard would this be if a woman was trying to flee during this time?

Jesus says, "Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath." Wouldn't you take this advice?

[Simon]

Jesus wouldn't need to say saturday to mean saturday Hebrew only has the word Sabbath to refer to Saturday.

 

[Simon]

Note:I do NOT think sunday keepers are relegated to hell any more than anyone else with Jesus you are saved without him you are not.

[Harry]

Joshua wrote:

This is what Simon is refering to:

19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Jesus says, "Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath." Wouldn't you take this advice?

This is another one of my favorite verses, they tried to jam this down our throats the night before we left for vacation in a last ditch effort to keep my favorite ex-member from coming with us, it didn't work. We had a good time. Flew out on the sabbath and came back on the sabbath.

You know what Dano, you may not be a very good brainwasher. Perhaps you should work on that, afterall, it is your lifes work

[Simon]

Dano?

[emil]

Simon wrote:

Dano?

He means Dan Lee, the pastor of the wmscog in his town.

[Simon]

Oh Dan-o

[Harry]

Simon wrote:

Oh Dan-o

I would like to give a quick lesson in punctuation. One of the many lawyers i know recently told me that it is very important to check your punctuation especially on the internet because a coma in the wrong place can change the meaning of an entire sentence. For example, I will use a famous line from a popular old TV show, Hawaii 5-0. Watch what can happen to this famous old line when the coma's are accidentally put in the wrong place,

Book him, Dan-o (indicates the captain wants officer Dan-o to put the criminal in jail)

Book, him, Dan-o (indicates that DAN-O IS THE CRIMINAL)

So everyone please, watch your punctuation. Btw, Thanks for the promotion Dano, I got choked up when I heard the news.

 

[emil]

Hal wrote:

 

I agree with the WMSCOG on shabbat.. Its the 7th Day. No change is ever noted in the law by Yeshua or Saul… Its also basic Christian doctrine to use the Sunday as a day of Worship as noted by the Council Of Nicaea….WMSCOG uses basically Catholic and Christian teachings to further its own agenda in its own arguments for and against.

I beg to differ. There is no record of this ever being on the agenda at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. The practice of Sunday worship was established from the time of the apostles themselves. You may agree with the wmscog on the shabbat. That is your prerogative. But do not alter history.

We have, moreover, to refer the reader to the nineteenth chapter of this work, where we remarked that even Jesus and his disciples held the Sabbath holy, and that, only several centuries after his death, a pope ordered the first day of the week instead of the seventh to be kept as the day of rest. Thus we prove that this innovation runs counter to the very doctrines inculcated by Jesus.

Again I beg to differ. Can you state your source? It is on record that the Christians right from the first century observed Sunday worship. You may take OT scripture and tell us what you think they mean but do not distort history.

[Simon]

Actually first century Christianity met daily according to acts

[genny]

Harry wrote:

Simon wrote:

Oh Dan-o

I would like to give a quick lesson in punctuation. One of the many lawyers i know recently told me that it is very important to check your punctuation especially on the internet because a coma in the wrong place can change the meaning of an entire sentence. For example, I will use a famous line from a popular old TV show, Hawaii 5-0. Watch what can happen to this famous old line when the coma's are accidentally put in the wrong place,

Book him, Dan-o (indicates the captain wants officer Dan-o to put the criminal in jail)

Book, him, Dan-o (indicates that DAN-O IS THE CRIMINAL)

So everyone please, watch your punctuation. Btw, Thanks for the promotion Dano, I got choked up when I heard the news.

Ha!  You reminded me of another good example.

Comma's save lives! — "Let's eat Grandpa." or "Let's eat, Grandpa."

[Simon]

LOL

[Carlos]

genny wrote:

Harry wrote:

Simon wrote:

Oh Dan-o

I would like to give a quick lesson in punctuation. One of the many lawyers i know recently told me that it is very important to check your punctuation especially on the internet because a coma in the wrong place can change the meaning of an entire sentence. For example, I will use a famous line from a popular old TV show, Hawaii 5-0. Watch what can happen to this famous old line when the coma's are accidentally put in the wrong place,

Book him, Dan-o (indicates the captain wants officer Dan-o to put the criminal in jail)

Book, him, Dan-o (indicates that DAN-O IS THE CRIMINAL)

So everyone please, watch your punctuation. Btw, Thanks for the promotion Dano, I got choked up when I heard the news.

Ha!  You reminded me of another good example.

Comma's save lives! — "Let's eat Grandpa." or "Let's eat, Grandpa."

 respectfully, it's not something to joke about and Harry please stop. I'm not saying that in a mean spirited way

[genny]

Carlos wrote:

genny wrote:

Harry wrote:

Simon wrote:

Oh Dan-o

I would like to give a quick lesson in punctuation. One of the many lawyers i know recently told me that it is very important to check your punctuation especially on the internet because a coma in the wrong place can change the meaning of an entire sentence. For example, I will use a famous line from a popular old TV show, Hawaii 5-0. Watch what can happen to this famous old line when the coma's are accidentally put in the wrong place,

Book him, Dan-o (indicates the captain wants officer Dan-o to put the criminal in jail)

Book, him, Dan-o (indicates that DAN-O IS THE CRIMINAL)

So everyone please, watch your punctuation. Btw, Thanks for the promotion Dano, I got choked up when I heard the news.

Ha!  You reminded me of another good example.

Comma's save lives! — "Let's eat Grandpa." or "Let's eat, Grandpa."

 respectfully, it's not something to joke about and Harry please stop. I'm not saying that in a mean spirited way

Sometimes we just need a bit of lightheartedness.  But I do think we should control ourselves and not take it too far.

Just realized I made my own punctuation error.  It should be "commas" not "comma's."

[Sarah2013]

@Genny: Lol. We get it. Not exactly a grammar test exam site.

[Harry]

Carlos wrote:

genny wrote:

Harry wrote:

Simon wrote:

Oh Dan-o

I would like to give a quick lesson in punctuation. One of the many lawyers i know recently told me that it is very important to check your punctuation especially on the internet because a coma in the wrong place can change the meaning of an entire sentence. For example, I will use a famous line from a popular old TV show, Hawaii 5-0. Watch what can happen to this famous old line when the coma's are accidentally put in the wrong place,

Book him, Dan-o (indicates the captain wants officer Dan-o to put the criminal in jail)

Book, him, Dan-o (indicates that DAN-O IS THE CRIMINAL)

So everyone please, watch your punctuation. Btw, Thanks for the promotion Dano, I got choked up when I heard the news.

Ha!  You reminded me of another good example.

Comma's save lives! — "Let's eat Grandpa." or "Let's eat, Grandpa."

 respectfully, it's not something to joke about and Harry please stop. I'm not saying that in a mean spirited way

Here's  little parable just for you Carlos, respectfully. Once a upon a time there was a little boy whose grandma sent him a cute little bunny rabbit for his birthday. The little boy loved the bunny and the bunny loved the little boy. The problem was the bunny was shipped in a cage and he was afraid to come out of the cage. The little boy tried so hard to coax the bunny out of the cage because he knew that the bunny would be so much happier outside the cage. The little boy asked for advice and everyone told him that the bunny would come out when he was ready to. weeks went by and finally, one morning, the little boy decided he had enough. So he walked up to the cage opened the door, reached into the cage, grabbed the bunny by the neck and yanked his ass out of the cage. After 3 months of therapy they both lived happilly ever after. THE END      I'm not saying that in a mean spirited way

[emil]

Carlos wrote:

 respectfully, it's not something to joke about and Harry please stop. I'm not saying that in a mean spirited way

It appears that some of us haven't been able to understand what exactly you found offensive about Harry's joke. I admit I couldn't find anything offensive. I could have missed something you caught. Would appreciate if you can explain what exactly were your thoughts about what Harry said. Just trying to understand.

[Smurf]

Maybe Carlos's grandpa was in some cannibalistic accident, so if you look at it that way it is pretty offensive.

Either that or Carlos is Dano 🙂

One thing's for sure though. Dano is a criminal.