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So God would return and be baptized into the SDA church? Doesn't make sense. Watch this video:
fromtheotherside wrote:
Also I don't think "everyone" or "all" means the whole world. Because that means as Joshua stated "everyone will confess with their tongues he is the Lord" Does that mean the will all be saved, the whole world no one will go to hell? because in the bible it says "whoever confesses with their lips that chirst is the saviour will be saved."
The "everyone" here only pertains to the sheeps(true believers) and only the people who hears God's call. I think the bible plainly states that majority will go to Hell and only a selected few will go to Heaven.
I guess I have to clairify a bit. Just because everyone is going to recognize Jesus as Lord and confess it with their toung doesn't mean that they accept him. It is my understanding that when He returns it will be to late to accept him into your heart. You will know your mistake and you will profess that He is Lord but you are already lost. God desires that none should perrish but it's our choice as to whether of not we accept him into our hearts and our lives. He is the Lord but is He your Lord?
Since we have different beliefs in that topic I will have to disagree with you Josh. The fact that it is stated "they will recognize Jesus as Lord and confess it with their tounge means that they DO accept him but those who accept are the only ones who were destined to accept but I guess this concept is very hard for most people to accept too. lol a lot of "accept" words here.
Elievalkyrie wrote:
fromtheotherside wrote:
Also I don't think "everyone" or "all" means the whole world. Because that means as Joshua stated "everyone will confess with their tongues he is the Lord" Does that mean the will all be saved, the whole world no one will go to hell? because in the bible it says "whoever confesses with their lips that chirst is the saviour will be saved."
The "everyone" here only pertains to the sheeps(true believers) and only the people who hears God's call. I think the bible plainly states that majority will go to Hell and only a selected few will go to Heaven.
Thanks for backing up my statement!! You said it better then me. Now we're getting somewhere Elie.
Hey this is good we all have different views and actualy this is a very important topic doesn't everyone agree? Does anyone believe in a second coming Christ? Or does everyone only believe in the rapture?
fromtheotherside wrote:
Elievalkyrie wrote:
fromtheotherside wrote:
Also I don't think "everyone" or "all" means the whole world. Because that means as Joshua stated "everyone will confess with their tongues he is the Lord" Does that mean the will all be saved, the whole world no one will go to hell? because in the bible it says "whoever confesses with their lips that chirst is the saviour will be saved."
The "everyone" here only pertains to the sheeps(true believers) and only the people who hears God's call. I think the bible plainly states that majority will go to Hell and only a selected few will go to Heaven.
Thanks for backing up my statement!! You said it better then me. Now we're getting somewhere Elie.
Yes, FTOS. I too believe that only limited people can go to heaven but that's the only thing that we have in common. Most of our religious teachings are vastly different, in our religion we consider your views to be Arminian. I don't know if you are familiar with it but my views are Calvinistic. No matter what religion you are, in our book, you are either Arminian or Calvinist. This is the two division of theology. Most religions I know follows the Arminian teachings: wmscog, catholics, SDA, pentecostals, muslims, mormons, Jehovah's witness, INC's…almost all held an Arminian view.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Like simon mentioned there are a lot of other verses too that describe the first coming to be a "public affair".
Simon's solitary quote has already been refuted. Why don't you provide a few of the verses that describe the first coming to be a public affair?
Elievalkyrie wrote:
Simon wrote:
4 Every valley shall be raised up,
every mountain and hill made low;
the rough ground shall become level,
the rugged places a plain.
5 And the glory of the Lord will be revealed,
and all mankind together will see it.
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”
This does not specifically or exactly say that ALL the people will see the Messiah but only the glory of the Lord which can refer to verse 4. Do you anything more specific? While Revelation 1:7 "Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him" is very specific on whom they are talking about.
That's a copt out and you know it. People are so high on calling WMSCOG false they will disbelieve everything that is remotely similar to WMSCOG doctrine even when it is explicit
And how can you say it is EXPLICITLY stated?
if you don't make contextanomy it is clearly talking about the coming of Jesus
It is talking about the coming of Jesus but can you say with 100% certainty that the "glory of God" refers to Jesus and not to the previous verse (4) in the chapter? And how could you say that I am the one who is doing contextomy and not you?
The fact is my point is it is referring to verse four
So is verse four referring to Jesus or to the glory of God?
The way english grammar goes, a sentence is in direct relationship to the previous sentence unless there is an obvious change of subject.
My cat's name is George. My dog's name is Bill. He likes to sleep in my bed at night.
Who is "he" in the last sentence? The reader is to assume "he" is Bill the dog, not George the cat or anyone else for that matter.
Jesus holds the glory of God
2 Peter 1:17
"For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "this is my son, who I love, with him I am well pleased."
Jesus received the Glory from God.
Thank you for the verse FTOS but I think it still doesn't have a direct relation to the "glory of God" that Simon gave. We cannot limit the "glory" of God to just Jesus but ofcourse Jesus also have God's glory. But God's glory can be applied to many things. The other name for glory is splendour. So I can safely say that the glory or splendour of God can be seen everywhere and anywhere. Look at the universe, that is one of God's glory. When you look everywhere around you, see the beautiful things, you can always see the splendour of God. So you see if you read the phrase Simon gave:
4 Every valley shall be raised up,
every mountain and hill made low;
the rough ground shall become level,
the rugged places a plain.
5 And the glory of the Lord will be revealed,
and all mankind together will see it.
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”
The glory of the Lord CAN pertain to verse 4, as Renita have said if you use English grammar correctly, it SHOULD refer to verse 4. But reading this passage, can we directly say that it stated or even 100% implied that EVERYBODY will see the first coming of Jesus? I think not, so we shouldn't assume that it does. It is a different statement, unlike in Revelations where it is plainly stated.
verse four is still talking about Jesus christ coming to this earth. So verse 2, 3, 4, are all refering to his coming. Wether or not the glory of the lord refers to christ which you cannot clearly deny, or even if it isn't which you may still claim, it is talking about the coming of christ, so what ever glory they see it will be when jesus christ came to the earth, So that means all man kind will see that glory when HE comes, so it is a very public event.
If verse 2,3,4 are talking about Jesus Christ and since He did come and I think we can safely say that verse 4 did not happen LITERALLY, then we can also say that verse 5 stating "all mankind will see it" is not to be taken literally also. Though I would be wrong if it is proven that "Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the rough ground shall become level, the rugged places a plain." did in fact happened. Did it?
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