The False Statements of Missionary Ron Ramos

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #7353
    144000
    Participant

    There have been some contentious issues about whether or not Ron said some of the things he said.

    Let us examine direct quotes from Ron, compare them to the statements of others, and compare them to what happened in reality.

    According to Ron @ 11:29 "in the early days we didn't have any black members at all"

    I know several black members that joined the truth before Ron, and some of them are even deacons or higher. This statement is objectively false. Lets see what other people think about it:

    Truth says "Ron NEVER said there were NO Blacks in the church!"

    Some people didn't actually pay attention to what Ron said, and they distort it. But good going Truth, your adament vote of confidence is partially correct, we did have black members.

    Freedfromreseda says "I too know the names & ranks of the early black members in reseda. A couple of them are still there."

    You heard it here first, folks, even non-believers admit that Ron was lying when he said "we didn't have any black members at all".

    So what else did Ron say?

    According to Ron @ 11:55 "And they said directly that canaan was cursed always which is why black people are cursed and they can never enter heaven"

    The same "early day" black members spoken of @ 11:29 are the exact same ones who proclaimed not only their own salvation, but salvation to others. Our church has always offered salvation to all persons and has never descriminated against blacks. You who are in the WMSCOG know theese black members by name, and so does the forum member Freedfromreseda.

    We can see clearly that Ron wasn't telling the truth about how we view black people, everyone is promised eternal life regardless of skin color! You know it, WMSCOG members, you know the black elders and the white elders; and their stories match.

    So what else did Ron say?

    According to Ron @ 12:16 "we were told actually pretty recently probably about two years before I left we were all taken into a room and we were asked not to preach to black members anymore"

    Here we can see that black members were in fact actually preached to up until this time according to Ron, and we who know them know that they have always been promised eternal life.

    But what about this decree of 2010 from the church not to preach to black members anymore? Did that really happen?

    No, it did not. The church has always recruited black members, they continue to recruit black members, and nobody has ever said to stop preaching to black members. Ron was fibbing about what our church was told to do. We actually have a humongous black community, it is by no means a minority or treated like a minority, you know it and I know it.

    Lets see what other people think of this:

    Freedfromreseda says "maybe the only black deacon they have currently will get a promotion

    Not only do we still preach to blacks, but even non-believers admit some of them even have titles, because we do not have any prejudice against them and we do not treat them differently than anyone else.

    Questioninginla says "This is the issue whether or not Ron lied or forgot."

    We can see over and over Ron is tripping over his own lies in addition to many more, but you WMSCOG members from the "early days", from 2005, and even now, all of you know that there was no "end of the world" statement given for 2012 and that some seriously unstable people are continuing to lie as they already have.

    Lets see what other people think about Ron's message:

    Truth says "Diane and Ron told the truth"

    Sarah2013 says "Ron is not the liar here"

    Emil says "Speaking of the claim that Ron is lying, I don't see what the problem is."

    Uh oh, I think there are some people who would like to amend their statements here.

    Reply below to discuss.

  • #62067

    Simon
    Participant

    Wow

    #62068

    144000
    Participant

    Did I miss anything?

    #62069

    emil
    Participant

    @144000 – Look at what I have said. I have not stated that Ron didn't lie. I wouldn't know either ways because I was never a member of your church, I am not even from your country and I haven't bothered to watch the videos.

    I said that I don't see why you guys accuse him of lying because I don't see why it is a problem for you. I said it because your church justifies the lying of Ahn when he wrote the book about the new jerusalem. So if your god can lie, why do you hold members to a diiferent standard?

    #62070

    Sarah2013
    Participant

    You still don’t get it, do you. What’s the confusion you are having? What people said or what Ron said? How is Ron’s statement considered false. Go back and listen to the video then apply wisdom to your reasoning. A good example is as you quoted “11:29 and 11:59.”

    All you are quoted are in order and can very well happen in the order he stated.

    No blacks in the beginning (blacks later recruited or joined)

    @ 11:55 “And they said directly that canaan was cursed always which is why black people are cursed and they can never enter heaven” (according to Wmscog whatever the curse on Canaan is, applies to black people if that means not going to heaven).

    @ 12:16 “we were told actually pretty recently probably about two years before I left we were all taken into a room and we were asked not to preach to black members anymore” (stop preaching to blacks let it remain as is. Those we have acquired after the very beginning is enough besides they are Canaanites).

    This, is the right way to interpret Ron’s statement. Once again, Ron is by far not the liar, your church is and I didn’t stutter. Everything is intact and in order.

    #62071

    144000
    Participant

    But there WERE blacks in the beginning, freedfromreseda and I BOTH know them.

    Members all over the world know black members from the "early days" of the church.

    So Sarah, when you say "no blacks in the beginning" that is objectively false.

    Also nobody ever preached that black people were cursed, I know this fact very intimately and so do all the WMSCOG members, they cannot be decieved no matter how hard you project your ignorance of the situation.

    Also nobody was ever told to stop preaching to blacks, like you just repeated to me. We never actually did that, and nobody was ever told that.

    Call Ron not a liar more, this has been saved and passed on, the more you argue the more it breaks your own credibility down.

    Especially when it becomes clear that your only arguing from assumptions and you actually have no idea.

    #62072

    144000
    Participant

    Emil

    I didn't say that you said that ron didn't lie, I copy pasted where you were advocating his lie because you think he was lied to so you don't see the problem in him lying like this.

    #62073

    prtyeyes
    Participant

    It’s so sad to me that members of the WMSCOG are so convinced by lies, lies that have made them feel good, in a way that they fight for this organization so hard based off hearsay. You have been convinced by “MAN” that thru the bible is how you’ve come to your conclusions and its simply not true. To get to the topic if Ron is a liar, ( I don’t know him, and never been a member) simply PROVE IT! Prove what he said is a lie! Just because you SAY you know these “black elder members” doesn’t mean it’s the truth! Prove it! I never understood why people make simply things complicated. As most of these conversations this one too will be a never ending until someone provides hard core proof! I pray for the people in WMSCOG everyday that they truly see the lies carefully fed to them, that have them so convinced of their so called “truth”!

    #62074

    prtyeyes
    Participant

    “Simple”

    #62075

    144000
    Participant

    I already did prove it.

    Freedfromreseda and I both know members from the "early days". One of your own fellow anti-wmscog patriots has already admitted the truth of this matter.

    The proof is elder black members are preached that they have eternal life, forever and always they have never been preached anything different, this is widely known, ask any of them about their early experience.

    The proof is in the factual number of recent baptisms. Are we still preaching to blacks or not? In fact we are there are numerous new black members, we never stopped preaching to them.

    On every possible level Ron is decieving you.

    But please, support him more, especially because you don't know him, so the brothers and sisters can understand which people are unstable and cannot be trusted.

    #62076

    Smurf
    Participant

    prtyeyes wrote:

     To get to the topic if Ron is a liar, ( I don't know him, and never been a member) simply PROVE IT!

    Even if he was.. they can't label everyone as a liar. I'm assuming Diane is also a liar? How about Renita? Or all the others that have left and decided to expose their scam? There's going to be more like them.. way more… and there will come a time when "Mother" can no longer suppress all the information coming out.

    #62077

    Harry
    Participant

    Ok, they have black members, they don't have black members, Ron lied, he didn't lie, Diane lied, she didn't lie, the thousands of people who left are liars, the thousands who are still there are liars….blah, blah, blah, It doesn't matter because one fact remains constant:

    IT'S NOT A CHURCH, IT'S A CULT, THEY USE THE BIBLE AS THEIR WEAPON!!!!

    #62078

    Smurf
    Participant

    144000 wrote:

     

    On every possible level Ron is decieving you.

    I have never understood that, even when I was a member. What does someone trying to lead me away from the WMS gain from me?? I was told not to believe people like that because the only thing they wanted was me to beieve them rather than the WMS.

    How is that a reason to decieve someone? We're not in kindergarden, people, get real! Ron doesn't have a horse in the race! Mother on the other hand does! The WMS are the ones to lose from this thing.

    So ask yourself this: between two people trying to get you on their side

    – the one receiving money, time, converts from you

    – and the other one receiving NOTHING

    WHICH ONE HAS A MOTIVE TO DECEIVE YOU!?!?!?

    #62079

    prtyeyes
    Participant

    @Smurf I agree. I don’t think Ron lied. I feel like 144000 are somewhat twisting what he said. But I could be wrong, I have no problem admitting that once someone proves with actual facts that I am wrong. Just because 144000 and freedfromreseda say it doesn’t make it true. They could make a video or provide pictures, something. I believe people like Renita and all others who have exposed their scam because their experiences align for the most part with my friend who is currently a member.

    #62080

    emil
    Participant

    144000 wrote:

    Emil

    I didn't say that you said that ron didn't lie, I copy pasted where you were advocating his lie because you think he was lied to so you don't see the problem in him lying like this.

    I wasn't advocating his lie if you read properly. I was justifying his lie, assuming there was one, based on the standards of your god.

    #62081

    emil
    Participant

    Smurf wrote:

    I have never understood that, even when I was a member. What does someone trying to lead me away from the WMS gain from me?? I was told not to believe people like that because the only thing they wanted was me to beieve them rather than the WMS.

    How is that a reason to decieve someone? We're not in kindergarden, people, get real! Ron doesn't have a horse in the race! Mother on the other hand does! The WMS are the ones to lose from this thing.

    So ask yourself this: between two people trying to get you on their side

    – the one receiving money, time, converts from you

    – and the other one receiving NOTHING

    WHICH ONE HAS A MOTIVE TO DECEIVE YOU!?!?!?

    Good logical point.

    #62082

    Sarah2013
    Participant

    144000 wrote:

    But there WERE blacks in the beginning, freedfromreseda and I BOTH know them.

    Members all over the world know black members from the "early days" of the church.

    So Sarah, when you say "no blacks in the beginning" that is objectively false.

    Also nobody ever preached that black people were cursed, I know this fact very intimately and so do all the WMSCOG members, they cannot be decieved no matter how hard you project your ignorance of the situation.

    Also nobody was ever told to stop preaching to blacks, like you just repeated to me. We never actually did that, and nobody was ever told that.

    Call Ron not a liar more, this has been saved and passed on, the more you argue the more it breaks your own credibility down.

    Especially when it becomes clear that your only arguing from assumptions and you actually have no idea.

    You will be shocked to know that I am not merely arguing on the basis of assumption. I still currently have a couple of friends (I call them friends now), though they too having been long time members and seeing inconsistencies for themselves are on their way out. You can try to force a donkey to move forward but one day when he has had enough of the boss’ headache, he’ll react. “You” assume Ron is lying when he claims that in Reseda Wmscog there were no blacks when he started – that’s an assumption – except if you were already there as a member prior to Ron. “…In the beginning there were no blacks,” Ron says, of the Reseda location not of all the Wmscog. He obviously could only be at one location at a time. Yea? or No? “…12-14 people (most possibly, this is an estimation to narrow it down to the nearest and maximum members). “…7 or 8 Koreans,” he adds, all of which he makes very clear were in the beginning at Reseda. Obviously, blacks later became members and I’m not disputing this fact. However, they were instructed to stop recruiting blacks but rather “wealthy Caucasians” were encouraged.  

     

    Later recruits may not see or understand a lot of what Ron expressed in his video but common sense is common sense, especially when a lot of things are not transparent. 

     

    If this is still contradicting to you then we are all talking out of sense and need to move on to another debate. 

    #62083

    Freedfromreseda
    Participant

    I never said there were black people from the beginning. I said “EARLY DAYS”. The members recruited from the beginning were of Caucasian decent and there is a picture in reseda proving that.

    #62084

    144000
    Participant

    prtyeyes

    Except for the whole, you know, part where he lied about no black members being in the "early days" "at all".

    Except for the whole, us preaching to them eternal life thing.

    Except for the whole, we never stopped preaching thing.

    Man it must suck to have those pesky facts getting in the way all the time.

    Sarah2013

    "they were instructed to stop recruiting blacks but rather “wealthy Caucasians” were encouraged."

    Yeah you know, except for the whole us having more black and black-mixed members in southern california than any other demographic.

    And except for the whole we are still preaching to them thing.

    I was there before during and after Ron's supposed "decree" to stop preaching to blacks. It just plain didn't happen.

    That is a lie.

    Do you know what a lie is?

    It is something that is untrue.

    It is something that didn't happen.

    Like us not preaching to blacks anymore.

    That didn't happen.

    Ron is using a racially charged argument to decieve people, and while I may not know what he's getting out of it with Steve Hassan or other parties.

    I don't actually have to know his motive to be able to tell you clean and simply from firsthand experience in the subject matter that he is telling an absolute lie.

    Furthermore, it isn't an assumption that I "think" there were black members in the "early days", because I know such individuals firsthand.

    A lot of the older members in southern california WMSCOG know them.

    So please, tell us all about how your so sure he isn't lying. The credibility of this community nosedives by the minute.

    #62085

    Sarah2013
    Participant

    The cat has been out of the bag for some time now,  plus, you can't afford not to preach to those you (Wmscog) once condemned. It won't look good on your end. Like I said, Ron was the real deal. Just that simple.  

    #62086

    emil
    Participant

    "Early days" to my mind is a pretty subjective and imprecise term, easily lending itself to misunderstanding. That might well be the cause of the differing opinion. Just saying.

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