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Hello everyone! I hope every one of you are having awesome holidays. While surfing on the internet I found the recording of a radio show in Spanish which contains a testimony of a very concerned mother from Puerto Rico. I decided to translate this testimony for everyone to see the impact in our parents when we at one point decided to be part of this group. In my time at the church I believed that my parents were not concerned about me because they never questioned me about anything and they always have supported me in the positive actions that I have taken in life. As you can see my relationship with my parents is very close and for many hispanics families that live in the States this is not different. Conservative Hispanic families have a very different way of dealing with their children even if they are 18 years old. Here I leave the testimony to the world in English:
Video Title: Entrevista a personas afectadas por la Iglesia de Dios Sociedad Misionera Mundial (Interview to people affected by the World Mission Society Church of God). Can be found in Spanish on Youtube with the Spanish title.
Ana: I met this destructive sect by the end of 2011. My daughter was stopped at college by a girl that had a bible under her arm and she asked her if she knew about Mother God. They are a group that use verses on the bible to emphasize their belief. They use the Genesis to say that there is a Mother God and a Father God. Then, they are taken to take some bible studies, they say that they don't have any denomination and that the only thing they do is to study the bible. At the beginning it was all good because who wouldn't want to study the bible and understand many things? As I said my daughter was stopped at College and with the pass of the days she started changing and changing. I noted on her like an exaggerated need to go to these studies which started to happen every day. I had the opportunity to visit them because my daughter disappeared on a Saturday. We didnt know with who she was, where she was, and she appeared at 11:00pm when we realized she was with one of the leaders of this organization in Puerto Rico. I had a serious conversation with her and I told her that that was very irresponsible that she had taken my daughter and that nobody knew where she was. She answered my that because my daughter was 18 years old that she did not felt any responsability. [In other words] what she was trying to tell me was that my daughter was older enough but in Puerto Rico older enough is 21 years old because parents are responsible of what they do and what happens to them until they are 21 years old. Of course if after they are 21 years old the son or daughter is still living with the parents they have to adapt and accept the rules that they parents have at home. I was invited after this, and after my daughter told me her feelings about mother god. My daughter and I made a stop on that because that was outside of what Christianity is. The study I went they started to talk to me about mother god and father and never told me she was a Korean women and never mention Ahn Sang Hong as Second Coming Christ. I had many questions and they never answered me. They told me to write down my questions and to ask them in the studies if they were related to them and according with that my questions were going to be answered. Of course this was very estrange to me because when you have a question you are expecting your questions to be answered. There was when I noted how people starts to accept all this fallacy little by little because they give studies by studies so people assimilate a truth that does not exist. The changes on my daughter started to be noticeable, she started to loose her hair, her weight was not normal, she lost too much weight because they demand fasting even for 24 hours where they do not eat, don't drink water. My daughter is hyperglycemic so she started to loose weight and as a consequence she lost her hair and I had to take her a couple of times to the hospital. On top of that she got far from her teen friends, her family and I started to study where this cult was from and what they really believe because what they really want to let the world see is that they are a Christian church and that they teach love, comprehension and that they do social work and they love to show their faces in the newspaper, television and propaganda; lots of majors and political figures on activities of their cities or states. Obviously they do social work and they emphasize this. In my case I started to research this because if this is so good they shouldn't be all these negative symptoms. My daughter physically attacked my mother, her grandmother. She physically attacked me. When the time of the subliminal feast came, because they celebrate like the Jews my daughter was deprived of sleep. They will pick her up at midnight and they will drop her off by 2:00am then they will pick her up again later. She was all day out and she will arrive evenings, she was not resting. My only intuition is to say my truth and to prevent families, to be very careful with this destructive cult whom first will say that they believe in the existence of mother god, who believe that Ahn Sang hong the founder is Second Coming Christ, the Holy Spririt, The prophet Eliah, and the Root of David. They say that for you to be spiritually saved you must get baptized in the name of Ahn Sang Hong who is supposed to be the name of the Holy Spirit and have to Celebrate the Passover, which is The Passover of the new covenant how they call it. Meanwhile you are assisting to the studies they will take more and more of your time. Many people stop studying [she means College]. For the time that they were teaching my daughter she thought that the world was going to end in 2012 so she wanted to bring more people and recruit them so they can be saved. My daughter lost her interest in studying [going to College] and eventually she lost her interest in everything I saw her depressed always locked in her room. Obviously, they are taught that the real family are the brothers and sisters of the church. They have mother god, father god and the brothers and sisters are the ones at the church. Because of this they deduce that because they have their spiritual family, the earthly family does not have any value, neither their parents or people around them. They judge the people from other denominations, they say that the Catholic Church is satan, and all the churches that come from the Catholic Church are satanic. When you see these people that come to you all smiling and tell you all of this new things from their translation of the Bible, you will not imagine that you will end up being a very lonely person and obviously you will see that things are not as easy as they said at the beginning. As you more attend as more they will demand from you. They will demand time. They have a table where they measure the members by points and this is about the studies, you have to go out and preach, you have to be baptized, participate in the Passover, give your Tithe. There is people that give the tenth for themselves and for their children, offering, tithe, if they eat at the church, the food is purchased by the members. If they do flower arrangements they are paid by the members. There is the situation where many members cannot make a living, cannot pay for themselves so they bring to the church what they have for living to support the church. Here in Puerto Rico they try to hide and to pass as unseen as possible. They have been in Puerto Rico around 5 or 6 years. We, the affected families got together and handed out flyers and when they realized, this was at the beginning of 2012, they registered in the department of State of Puerto Rico and are Registered as a non profit organization. Before that they were here(communication was interrupted) [without being registered]. If you want to go to any of the meetings are only through an invitation, you cannot just show up how you will do in a Catholic Church, Pentecostal Church, That over there is not allowed. Now I think that as a requisite they are demanding the baptism to be able to join. Obviously, here they are trying to eliminate the information that comes out and what we know. They say that [what they do at the church] cannot be recorded, cannot be pictured; the sermons or anything like that because their work is so secret that what they teach and their procedures can be seen. (Ended around minute 21:00)
There are other testimonies on this recording and the testimony of Ana continues a little bit more about what they are told that will happen to them if they leave and about the internet. The point of view of this mother was very interesting to me because these are people that live somewhere else from where I did when I was at the church and I got to meet some of the young ladies of the Puerto Rico Zion. I am not the best translator but I did my best. Therefore, I might have some grammar mistakes.
*See every part where the word "cult" is found she actually said sect. For us in the Caribbean a sect is a cult but its meaning might defer depending from which Hispanic country you are from.
This post is not made to persecute anyone but to share the experience of this Mother and the people related to this case. I hope that the families of the members that still part of this organization get to reunite with their love ones and this war of "you against me" ends soon. I hope that the bond of this girl with her family never breaks as mine never broke even thought my family lived very far away from me when I joined this group I still missed them and loved them very much to the point of going back home.
emil wrote:
Harry wrote:
Q, explain to me how the leaders can treat some members like dirt in front of others and still keep control of the group? Why would that behavior not be an eye opener for them? He does it all the time.
I believe this reinforces group membership once a person is already a group member. When you are witness to a member being treated like dirt, you will always act with the primary purpose of avoiding being treated that way. The member who is treated like dirt tries twice as hard never to be treated that way again.
That
And they don't get , and refuse, outside information. In their world this is likely something to put up with because if they leave they will fall away, destined for/burn in hell, etc. (Although difficult) people leave Scientology*, FLDS because of this type of treatment and continue to believe that they are chosen thetans in human bodies and that Warren Jeffs is a prophet from God, respectively. Hassan has an "I" for information control for good reason. Why do dictatorships shut down the internet in their countries?
*Hubbard would have people thrown overboard into the sea (Sea Org), as punishment. All aboard were subject to this treatment – with the exception of his family members, of course!
The short answer: negative reinforcement.
Stained wrote:
Matthew 6:2-4
2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the HYPOCRITES do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.
The church must have a comeback for this. What is it?
Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven."
Your move.
And a nice move that is.
Here is what happens, in a general sense.
Member is presented with information about being a hypocrit (proclaiming the charitable deed), and this runs in contrast to Matt 6, as shown above.
Member experiences tension in the brain, tries to make sense of it.
Matt 5 comes to the rescue – eases the tension in the brain. Member is pacified relative to this going forward.
Member becomes busy again.
Member conforms, sees other members apparently enjoying the task / joining in on the chants and cheers, joins in him/herself, and rarely questions this task again;
focus may turn to "sacrifices" of leader for taking the abuse of outsiders relative to what member has experienced. How can these good deeds be "bad"? Internalizes this as proof of how "outside" = "bad".
Viscious cycle continues.
I didn't realize we're allowed to play chess with the WMS members.
Aaaalrighty then. GP to C4 (pun intended) > GP takes bishop.
Now that your bishop is gone, Q… you can't use scripture.
You're up.
fried rice wrote:
Q… you can't use scripture.
exactly.
fried rice wrote:
I didn't realize we're allowed to play chess with the WMS members.
Aaaalrighty then. GP to C4 (pun intended) > GP takes bishop.
Now that your bishop is gone, Q… you can't use scripture.
You're up.
Love them. The system is designed to bind them and give them no alternative choices. People resent that.
Harry wrote:
Q, explain to me how the leaders can treat some members like dirt in front of others and still keep control of the group? Why would that behavior not be an eye opener for them? He does it all the time.
Other research shows that it confuses people, which serves the purpose of "wiping the slate clean" – ie, setting up for cementing the belief system in place. It's sick but it's efficacy cannot be denied. People come to believe that they deserve it. For example, in a 1977 raid on Scientology some 120 people were in the Rehabilitation Project Force program in the basement of a building that the FBI raided; the conditions were terrible. Not one of the 120 people in this "dungeon" took the opportunity to escape. The agents shrugged their shoulders and moved on.
Questioninginla wrote:
Harry wrote:
Q, explain to me how the leaders can treat some members like dirt in front of others and still keep control of the group? Why would that behavior not be an eye opener for them? He does it all the time.
Other research shows that it confuses people, which serves the purpose of "wiping the slate clean" – ie, setting up for cementing the belief system in place. It's sick but it's efficacy cannot be denied. People come to believe that they deserve it. For example, in a 1977 raid on Scientology some 120 people were in the Rehabilitation Project Force program in the basement of a building that the FBI raided; the conditions were terrible. Not one of the 120 people in this "dungeon" took the opportunity to escape. The agents shrugged their shoulders and moved on.
Ahhhhh, i get it, thanks Q. It's kinda like if Harry reaches out for the All Knowing One all week and the All Knowing One doesn't acknowledge Harry. First confusion then slate wiped clean then dungeon. Got it, thanks again Q….I was getting worried.
FBI agents shrugged and moved on, that's unbelieveable….how is it possible to leave 120 in a dungeon just because they didn't or couldn't say help?
Harry wrote:
FBI agents shrugged and moved on, that's unbelieveable….how is it possible to leave 120 in a dungeon just because they didn't or couldn't say help?
More likely they said, "this is where we want to be."
emil wrote:
Harry wrote:
FBI agents shrugged and moved on, that's unbelieveable….how is it possible to leave 120 in a dungeon just because they didn't or couldn't say help?
More likely they said, "this is where we want to be."
^
I second what emil posted. I "choose" to be here, eating a diet of rice & beans, sleeping on the floor, because "I deserve it" (because of my sins). Oh, and my eternal salvation is at stake and this is just temporary, this life….
Questioninginla wrote:
emil wrote:
Harry wrote:
FBI agents shrugged and moved on, that's unbelieveable….how is it possible to leave 120 in a dungeon just because they didn't or couldn't say help?
More likely they said, "this is where we want to be."
^
I second what emil posted. I "choose" to be here, eating a diet of rice & beans, sleeping on the floor, because "I deserve it" (because of my sins). Oh, and my eternal salvation is at stake and this is just temporary, this life….
Emil and Q, that covers the 120 people in the "dungeon" I was referring to the people who shrugged and moved on. How is that possible?
Harry wrote:
Emil and Q, that covers the 120 people in the "dungeon" I was referring to the people who shrugged and moved on. How is that possible?
You can't help someone who doesn't want help. It's a free country, everyone has the right to be a muppet.
fried rice wrote:
Harry wrote:
Emil and Q, that covers the 120 people in the "dungeon" I was referring to the people who shrugged and moved on. How is that possible?
You can't help someone who doesn't want help. It's a free country, everyone has the right to be a muppet.
ahahaha, thanks rice, thats funny and you know i love a good joke but i'm serious. I know Q and emil misunderstood the question and this is really directed to Q, "how is it possible that they shrugged and walked away"? OK, especially in a free country. What allows someone to shrug and walk away?
@Harry – What can the FBI agents do? They are doing a job. They can act against people who confine others to a dungeon against their will. But if 120 people are in the dungeon because they want to be there, the FBI has to move on. There is no case. Remember that they are executors of the law. They cannot act on emotion. When this case is closed, they are assigned to another.This is what I meant when I said, "this is where we want to be." As long as they are adults saying that, and are apparently of sound mind, the FBI cannot do a thing. The sound mind is demonstrable in other ways not related to the religion.
emil wrote:
@Harry – What can the FBI agents do? They are doing a job. They can act against people who confine others to a dungeon against their will. But if 120 people are in the dungeon because they want to be there, the FBI has to move on. There is no case. Remember that they are executors of the law. They cannot act on emotion. When this case is closed, they are assigned to another.This is what I meant when I said, "this is where we want to be." As long as they are adults saying that, and are apparently of sound mind, the FBI cannot do a thing. The sound mind is demonstrable in other ways not related to the religion.
Ok, it looks like I'll just have to wait for Q to wake up which should be right around luch time in my part of the world. Perhaps for lunch I'll head down to the dungeon and have some rice and beans with all the other people who claim to be happy down there.
In the meantime you guys look up Stockholm Syndrome
shrugged and walked away is how the author phrased it. but, ultimately that's what they did because they moved on and nothing ever came of it. research shows that scientology compares its "clergy" (ie, the people in the dungeon, punishment, RPF, or whatever) to monks and other theologies in which people work for next to nothing and even thrash themselves in order to show how pentinent they are.
emil is correct, adults that say they choose to be there – not much can be done to help them. of course, all that leave that "religion" are "liars", "slanderers", "gold-diggers", and [insert derogatory word or phrase here] – all "out to get the church". can't have that because it threatens the eternal salvation or utopian goal of those still in the group. that's fear, but of course its not seen that way.
they get that way because they come to see the world in "if/then" with lack of real choices as far as their individual freedom is concerned. the history of mankind tends to be on the side of people trading comfort and protection for their freedom. this really is nothing new. once people have choices then the group has lost its grip, and now we're back to controlling what information people have. research into psychology is from "man" and not of God, so teach people to follow the Bible (by cleverly defining the path for them) and they'll never understand they have been manipulated; teach people that reading newspapers, watching tv, or Googling is bad (and there are many examples to show how these are "bad", but this is simply confirmation bias to use a psychological term), and again they never know because they traded their freedom to obtain/research these sources for the comfort of the doctrine. Now snagged without choice, the "real church" takes over, but in the mind of the follower all goals are utopian. Anything is possible, including "voluntarily" forfeiting one's own human rights.
it is pathetic that we pretend in this country to be about human rights then turn away, but the population at large is too lazy to understand what loss of freedom really is. the cult problem will only become worse as our country drifts into further devaluation of our currency and into debt. people want answers (in order to make sense of their world), and there is always someone waiting to provide some.
@Harry – You may see it as Stockholm Syndrome. You may see it as bondage. But the way the system is structured, a person has the freedom to trade his/her freedom for comfort.This is much like what happened to the Israelites when they left Egypt and had to suffer discomfort in the desert. They were angry with Moses because, in Egypt they had comfort even though they were enslaved.
emil wrote:
@Harry – You may see it as Stockholm Syndrome. You may see it as bondage. But the way the system is structured, a person has the freedom to trade his/her freedom for comfort.This is much like what happened to the Israelites when they left Egypt and had to suffer discomfort in the desert. They were angry with Moses because, in Egypt they had comfort even though they were enslaved.
Emil, ol buddy, ol pal, it most certainly is bondage! In fact this whole thing is about bondage! These members are not trading their freedom, its being taken from them using lies and deception.
Harry wrote:
Emil, ol buddy, ol pal, it most certainly is bondage! In fact this whole thing is about bondage! These members are not trading their freedom, its being taken from them using lies and deception.
We trade freedom for security all the time in this country. Security we can count. Freedom we cannot. And try convincing people that they have been lied to or deceived or that they have lost any freedom.
You will be labeled a radical quicker than [insert funny anecdote here].
Questioninginla wrote:
Harry wrote:
Emil, ol buddy, ol pal, it most certainly is bondage! In fact this whole thing is about bondage! These members are not trading their freedom, its being taken from them using lies and deception.
We trade freedom for security all the time in this country. Security we can count. Freedom we cannot. And try convincing people that they have been lied to or deceived or that they have lost any freedom.
You will be labeled a radical quicker than [insert funny anecdote here].
Ok, you got me there Q, your right, in fact, history proves you are right! It reminds me of a famous American radical who once said, "He who sacrifices freedom for security will obtain neither and deserves neither" Ben and his radical friends had a tough time convincing all those people that they had been lied to, decieved and lost their freedom but……I sure am glad they didn't shrug and walk away
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