- Topic
Not too long ago 144k argued that former members complained about their negative experiences with the wms because of a low self-esteem and a victim complex. Other members in the forum have made similar arguments in order to discredit all former member testimony. Why do members almost immediately dismiss any complaints about negative experiences by former members?
I believe that the wms induces a persecution complex in its members. Of course this may not seem obvious but upon closer inspection, the influence of a perception of persecution from the outside world is evidenced in some of the wms literature. In "My Sheep Listen to My Voice" p. 219 Joo writes when answering "How Does the Devil Temp Us?"…
"By making us doubt God's administration"…
-which I interpret to mean doubts in the church leadership
"By making our family members [parents, children, wife, husband, etc.], relatives or our acquaintances [neighbors, friends, etc.] slander us".
-which I interpret to mean that if the people closest to you criticize the wms and question your membership, it's really the devil tempting you to leave the organization
When answering "What Is the Devil's Purpose In Tempting Us?" Joo writes…
"Satan tempts us to sin, go astray, forsake our faith, rebel against God, and eventually follow him".
-which I interpret to mean ultimately leaving the wms
There are more quotes in this book of course. Is anyone else willing to post a few from any of the wms literature they have?
MountainMom wrote:
16 and 17 year olds are children to their parents. If you are a parent, you know exactly what I mean. Your own kids are your "children" basically forever.
Yes to parents of course you're still the baby at eighty
Freedfromreseda wrote:
At a legal standpoint, 16-17 year olds are still considered children in the eyes of the law. You cannot enter a legally binding contract with anyone under 18. In Reseda, no one under 18 will be baptised without parental consent (if the parents arent members or studying). They dont want the police involved.
Yes legally they are a minor but they have the psychological and mental capacity to make up their own beliefs as much as a 20 year old so the legal issues definitely exist but not the moral ones (except the immortality of WMSCOG in general)
In my Zion we baptized a 17 year old on the guys word he had permission
Simon wrote:
I don't care where love is from 16/17 just plain isn't a child
I am surprised at such insensitivity from you Simon. Most Americans are sheltered from the rest of the world and see the world through the glass of their own environment. Maturity cannot be measured by age either.
Besides, we must also pay heed to what MM says as it is much more than about one's own children. Someone who has been a parent of a 16/17 year old is fully aware that it is the age of rebellion. Anything that their parents do is wrong at that stage. That is where we come to the low hanging fruit mentioned by Harry. Teens who are at this stage of rebellion are ripe for picking and manipulating to anything that is against what their parents do.
It is simply unethical to tap a teen.
Look my brothers and sister what we were told that 1)every soul should have salvation 2) In the feast time when the fasting comes every one should follow it weather he or she is child. 3) when I was baptise my baby was just few months then why did they baptise it? and baby also keept fasting. 3) WMSCOG motto is save one soul. 4) In the beginning it was ok any one can baptise but later many problem occered many guardian complain to police in our church. 5) while I was member few months before we were told Married male preach to Married male only, married women preach to married women only, student preach to student only now they are inwant for safe side. I must tell truth Every one in the WMSCOG member were baptise knowing any thing. 6) First they teach Bible is true, Second they teach about Soul then baptise immediately. 7) after studing many lesson the will let you know about Ahn Shang Hong & Heavenly mother. 8) I can tell you the fact if any member of WMSCOG can tell the name of heavenly mother. member have seen Zang Gil Zah's photo and know her as Heavenly mother. I also knew her name after 4 years when I was member.
Same thing happend to one of my friend you all will be surprise. my friend preached to one man his age were around 40. same person were preached by many members in different time and he was not baptise why? because that person didn't have job & his One hand were not working properly. when my friend preached and took him to baptise room first decon came and looked and he send another decon for approval again he send pastor to look then pastor order decon to deal with. can any one guess what the Decon told to my friend these types of person comes to church for some thing if he get baptise and any problem occur to him then will you feed him? what kind of question is this from a Decon. after I left one day same friend visit to my place then again we talk about same matter and I recod it for proof I have it do any one need the proof I have more that 30 Recording.
If any Examing WMSCOG former member want me to come to court then I can come to court with evidence I can give my statement I am not afraid of anyone.
Disturbed wrote:
In my location we were firmly instructed not to preach to anyone under 18. I understood it was clearly for legal reasons. And I know it would bring unneccesary attention on the church if/when the parents show up LOL! We were also told not to preach to people who appeared homeless. "We dont want them to come to zion for the wrong reasons" (ie…free food)
They don't want homeless because homeless don't have any fuckin' Money to give them. It's that simple. That is ANTI-CHRISTIAN. Bless you disturbed in the name of the Stained, Harry and the Holy Michele. Ahhhhhhhhhh Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh !
I would say I’m surprised at such insensitivity from people who disrespect other human beings by denying their maturity and development and growth referring to them as mere children
Simon wrote:
I would say I'm surprised at such insensitivity from people who disrespect other human beings by denying their maturity and development and growth referring to them as mere children
Simon, In the name of the "all knowing one" I pray to the "holy Michele" that you get married and have lots of children and when they are 16 you can tell MM, Emil and me all about how your respecting their maturity and growth.
Simon, these questions are for you:
Q1. At what age would you think a person is ready to be preached to?
Q2. At what age is a person ready to have sexual intercourse?
Q3. At what age is a person ready to take responsibility for a child born out of the above?
Q4. At what age is a person ready to drink alcohol? Take drugs?
Q5. At what age is a person ready to vote?
Q6. At what age is a person ready to become the president of the united states?
Q7. At what age is a person ready to decide whether he/she should go to school or not?
Q8. At what age is a person ready to handle a loaded gun?
Answer these questions today. Then ask an older person like your mum or dad to answer the same questions. The answers might help you understand. The rampant disintegration of families and values in the US can squarely be blamed on the kind of thinking that grants privileges before the person feels accountable for them.
Sorry Harry. I saw your post only after I posted this one. You said exactly the same thing I wanted to say in this post but I thought perhaps, after another 20 years when Simon reaches that stage, the standards would get even more lax than they have become now. That's why I asked him to check his parents opinion.
emil wrote:
Simon, these questions are for you:
Q1. At what age would you think a person is ready to be preached to?
Q2. At what age is a person ready to have sexual intercourse?
Q3. At what age is a person ready to take responsibility for a child born out of the above?
Q4. At what age is a person ready to drink alcohol? Take drugs?
Q5. At what age is a person ready to vote?
Q6. At what age is a person ready to become the president of the united states?
Q7. At what age is a person ready to decide whether he/she should go to school or not?
Q8. At what age is a person ready to handle a loaded gun?
Answer these questions today. Then ask an older person like your mum or dad to answer the same questions. The answers might help you understand. The rampant disintegration of families and values in the US can squarely be blamed on the kind of thinking that grants privileges before the person feels accountable for them.
Sorry Harry. I saw your post only after I posted this one. You said exactly the same thing I wanted to say in this post but I thought perhaps, after another 20 years when Simon reaches that stage, the standards would get even more lax than they have become now. That's why I asked him to check his parents opinion.
Emil, i like yours better but until Shim has kids he won't be able to answer any of your questions
I would still like to see his answers. Would be very interesting to have the "before" and "after" answers isn't it? The "before" obviously being now and the "after" when he has 16 years old kids.
Your questions are irrelevant
Simon wrote:
Your questions are irrelevant
Wow,They look like pretty relevant questions to me.
I wonder what the legal system will do with the wmscog re: brainwashing a "minor" into that cult. there got to be an awful lot of things they can be charged with. That's a lawsuit I could get behind
Except they aren’t
Why are they irrelevant?
You say that a 16 year old is mature enough to take his/her own decisions. I want to know at what age you believe a person is capable of taking their own decision on each of those subjects.
If say you have a daughter and she's 8. If you find out that she's planning to sleep with a boy from school who's say 13. Would you let her decide for herself and stay out of it? I guess perhaps not. What if she's 10? Or 12? To what age will she have to grow when you think, "Hey! She's old enough to decide for herself"
Maybe you can't think so far as your own daughter. How about your baby sister?
emil wrote:
Simon, these questions are for you:
Q1. At what age would you think a person is ready to be preached to?
Q2. At what age is a person ready to have sexual intercourse?
Q3. At what age is a person ready to take responsibility for a child born out of the above?
Q4. At what age is a person ready to drink alcohol? Take drugs?
Q5. At what age is a person ready to vote?
Q6. At what age is a person ready to become the president of the united states?
Q7. At what age is a person ready to decide whether he/she should go to school or not?
Q8. At what age is a person ready to handle a loaded gun?
Answer these questions today. Then ask an older person like your mum or dad to answer the same questions. The answers might help you understand. The rampant disintegration of families and values in the US can squarely be blamed on the kind of thinking that grants privileges before the person feels accountable for them.
Sorry Harry. I saw your post only after I posted this one. You said exactly the same thing I wanted to say in this post but I thought perhaps, after another 20 years when Simon reaches that stage, the standards would get even more lax than they have become now. That's why I asked him to check his parents opinion.
These are relevant questions it's just that some of them are hard to answer even after having children. For example: I would place a gun in the hands of my son no problem. I first started teaching and letting him shoot firearms when he was around eight years old. Because of the way I have raised my children in reguard to firearms none of them has ever thought of them as a toy or a play thing. The sons and daughters of Joshua have knowledge. For those who don't take the time to guide and teach their children I'll bet that the knowledge and trust would not be there.
Most questions are about being adults which is distinct from not being a child
every one in this forum I don't mean to say I preached to Kids 17 or 18 years I have also preached to all catagory people. while I was in WMSCOG I did my best to save one soul I never saw age. because I was taught every one should have salvation every one should be saved that was in my mind. now I realize what have I done. I am telling how they behave and happened at the time of baptise. I also know the law I know every thing about my country although I preach to all group people because I knew end was near so save more soul any how at any cost that was the motto. but when 2013 came it was just a dream . So, dont quarel each other about age limit. We were taught teach one lesson about salvation tell about baptise if he or she is ready then it's ok for baptise. I want all the former member stand at one point we can discuss what to do next. no need to point each other, I have many things to say and write but due to language problem I couldn't mention it.
Once again the topic has been turned by Simon into something it was never intended to encompass. Whether you realize, admit, or whatever, Simon, it is like you are running interference for the wms. Love is right, lets go back to the original intention of the discussion. Subtle alienation from the outside world. This technique exists, lets examine it.
whatever you can think whatever you want… maybe this site should fail if you are really so hateful…
leaving a lie for hate won't save you after all…
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