- Topic
http://dismythed.blogspot.kr/2012/10/hassan-toothless-bite.html
This is just something I found fun to read.
So what is your take on this? Do you agree with the Jehovas Witness's or do you see valid points in Steve Hassan's work? It seems like the JW's are trying to take apart Steve Hassan's work just like we take apart the WMSCOG's work. Curious.
I still want to know what your take on this is. Thank you for attacking my character as well with your response. Not smart but I'm getting used to it.
I don’t have interest in the JW issues because I never attended it. Secondly, they didn’t come knocking on my door saying, “Have you heard of heavenly mother…..” With or without Steve Hassan’s theory, a cult is a cult – period.
OP, I'm no fan of Hassan, but the blog posted from Dismythed has obvious confirmation bias and too many illogical fallacies to count. It appears to be written in similar form as an angry teenager that has just been on the receiving end of a broken up a relationship, with feigned intellect as a cover. Rather than posting a rant disguised as actual research, you may be better served by Dr. Mann's review on Amazon for the new book he came out with.
Confirmation bias primer: the pattern of 2,4,6 is
Additionally, this begs the question of if Mr. Hassan is a marketer that closely guards his products and services or if he does indeed practice information control.
If it were the latter, then he would somehow convince his followers not to read books from other researchers on the subject of thought reform, nor would it be permissible to view youtube videos outside of his approved realm. This is not the case with Mr. Hassan, but it certainly appears to ring true with so-called problem groups.
Tom Cruise has publicly criticized psychiatry – a profession that studies the thought patterns of the brain, makes diagnoses, and assists with treatment – to such a degree as reasonable people could logically conclude that psychiatry is forbidden in that belief system. Your choice to conclude if this is thought control, but if it were – wouldn't it be great to eliminate competition over the thinking of the members*?
Bible groups such as the (Boston) International Church of Christ, as documented in the book by Giambalvo/Rosedale/Rosedale, have been documented via (former) member testimony that "outside information" was equated to "spiritual pornography", a pathetic illogical fallacy that distracts from the issue at hand – that being if the information is or is not factual on its own merit. Again, if this is thought control, wouldn't it be nice to eliminate outside information*?
Did World Center Ministries participate in a more subtle form of information control (compared to the above two examples)? As documented by a former member in a youtube video entitled "Women in Cults", Tricia Cartledge shows her Bible all marked up in the margins – the leader had informed the members what each verse meant, and followers were instructed to write in their Bibles and study for lengthy time periods (which trickles into control over one's time). One could argue that a new bible was formed over the Bible, yet it would be so subtle that members would scarcely consider that they are being deceived.
The conclusion is that (…most) "main stream" religions can take Hassan's books – or any other author on the topic of thought reform – to the leaders of their congregation(s) and ask if there is a problem if they read up on the subject. When I'm limited as to what I may or may not (either actively or passively) research via reading or viewing youtube on my own, that's when the red flags go up.
As for JWs, I believe a youtube video (found by searching "Jehovah's Witnesses and Repetition for Emphasis") can speak for itself; the creater of the video compares documented keywords from the WT publications, "internet dangers" vs "door-to-door dangers", and how what was published by the society compares to his experience as a Pioneer (in his door-to-door witnessing).
As is germane to this website, does this group practice what Jesus practiced in the New Testament (ie,when is a religion a pseudo-religion)? Jesus socialized with apostates (or quasi-apostates, in the form of tax collecting Jews working for the enemy), He stood up to authority, and most of all (but not limited to) He emphasized critical thinking. It does beg the question, does my group practice what He preached? And if not, does Matthew 23:3 matter? And if not, what is one to say about Revelation 22:18?
*(from the perspective of the one designing the control mechanisms and/or the one(s) with the motive to start the group)
I know for a fact that JW's are not allowed to listen to or read any information that is critical of their religion. They are told repeatedly to stay away from anything written by apostates (ex-members). They are constantly warned about this in their literature and from the platform when they're at their services.
Oranges wrote:
I know for a fact that JW's are not allowed to listen to or read any information that is critical of their religion. They are told repeatedly to stay away from anything written by apostates (ex-members). They are constantly warned about this in their literature and from the platform when they're at their services.
Allah in the Qur'an says, "Allah loves not transgressors" (Sura 2:190)
Good luck also talking to members of any group about their leaders once the individual has been led on a path and subsequently gains full faith in the doctrine:
in light of the most excellent example all Muslims must follow (Sura 33:21) – we ask "how did he live"? 12 wives and a number of concubines, with his youngest wife married to him at her age of six years old. This is not to criticize their faith, but to state factually and to correlate with religions that do not allow any criticism, either real or perceived, of their leaders by their followers or anyone else for that matter. Ring true anyone? What were your experiences with being approached with information about the top of the heirarchy?
I don’t know much about Steve. I do have a question. What will happen to JW followers on that day? I don’t know.
My JW parents have made it clear to me that they will cut off contact with me if I say anything negative about their religion or the leadership. They are taught that Satan is the source of said criticism and that I’m being used by Satan to try to get them to “leave the truth”
Hmmm. I sincerely have something to say on this but, I have to be careful since I don’t know much about Jehovah Witness.
All I know Is dad saying tell them I am sleeping. I only know about Wmscog and the Catholic Church but, for the purpose of this site I will relent and stick with what I believe is relevant.
Questioning, I have to say, I met Steve Hassan, and I respect him for his work. He has done a lot, and his book really helped me to cope with this situation I'm in. I just wanted to say that.
Oranges wrote:
My JW parents have made it clear to me that they will cut off contact with me if I say anything negative about their religion or the leadership. They are taught that Satan is the source of said criticism and that I'm being used by Satan to try to get them to "leave the truth"
The tenet of fascism ^; ie, one-sided information, reinforced by phobia I might add.
MountainMom wrote:
Questioning, I have to say, I met Steve Hassan, and I respect him for his work. He has done a lot, and his book really helped me to cope with this situation I'm in. I just wanted to say that.
Fair enough. He has done a lot and his books are helpful. However, when comparing his examples in his books to that of, say, Dr. Margaret Singer…there seems to be a lot of examples of how he "gets people out"whereas Dr. Singer's book is very informational. I'm always on the lookout for the deeper meanings behind most things, though. If it weren't for her being deceased, I would petition for her videos to be highlighted on the home page, but only simply because I personally find them more helpful. Both very helpful, just an edge to her.
Yes, I've only read excerpts from Dr. Singer's book, but I know she had a lot of good information.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.