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This is a formal challenge to all WMSCOG members. The challenge is for you to find for me anywhere in the Bible the phrase, “god the mother.” You can find God the Father, Son of God, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, God the Holy Ghost. Your task is to show me, “god the mother” word for word. Your time starts now.
Really? Show me where it says God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. They are not in there either.
Your challenge is invalid
You challenge is based upon a lie
God the Son and God the Holy Spirit NEVER appear in scripture therefore if God the Mother cannot exist because the phrase isn't in scripture neither can God the Son or God the Holy Spirit
Shimon is correct that the exact phrases "God the Son" and "God the Holy Spirit" do not appear either.
But there are places where we see that the "Son" is God and the "Holy Spirit" is God, just not with those exact words.
Joshua, I think your point is to find a place in the Bible where the word "Mother" refers to God?
So, except for Gal. 4:26 (which we can debate about its interpretation in another thread if we want), what other verses in the Bible refer to God as "Mother"'?
I did a search a while ago and could not find any. Can you?
http://encountering-ahnsahnghong.blogspot.com/2010/12/other-mothers-part-1.html
http://encountering-ahnsahnghong.blogspot.com/2010/12/other-mothers-part-2.html
Isaiah 49:15Can a woman forget her nursing child And have no compassion on the son of her womb? Even these may forget, but I will not forget you
God compared to a Mother
shimon wrote:
Isaiah 49:15Can a woman forget her nursing child And have no compassion on the son of her womb? Even these may forget, but I will not forget you
God compared to a Mother
Ok, doesn't use the word 'mother,' but it does compare God to a mother. However, isn't this God the Father speaking?
I was just giving one example… another fact is Jerusalem is prophesied to give living water which is eternal life which can only come from God in Zechariah 14:8
While it doesn't say Mother Paul does call Jerusalem Mother and Jerusalem =/=Jehovah both ruling out God the Father being the only one giving living water.
You're getting into Gal. 4:26, which is complicated enough with the wmscog interpretation that it should have it's own post. Unless that's the only 'mother' you can find?
Can you find any other verse about 'mother' that would refer to God?
And if there isn't another one with the word 'mother', then go look for descriptions of a mother (like Is. 49:15) that does not refer to the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit. Can you find any?
If not, just say so, it's ok.
loocpoc wrote:
And define G-d the Father? Judaism does not see G-d as a man or a woman. The term Jevoah as the Father G-d is incorrect.
The wmscog defines Jehovah of the Old Testament as God the Father, so with that in mind, Isaiah 49:15 would be God the Father describing Himself as a mother. … which does not fit the wmscog of 'God the Father' and 'God the Mother' being two gods.
I studied about whether God is male or female too (http://encountering-ahnsahnghong.blogspot.com/2010/10/is-god-male-or-female-both-or-neither.html), and yes, gender is really an irrelevant trait of God. The descriptions in terms of gender are ways to help us understand Him, but none of them mean that He is literally male or female (like we are).
I wondered if you were the same person. 🙂
There are like three of four studies which all collaborate the same message with a ton of different verses. It is very supported. Unless you sat and had the studies, it would be impossible to convince you.
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As the bible says, it is not until the end that the bride has "made herself ready", and she is revealed to us by the second coming of Christ, not by our own human knowledge.
To summarize:
There are comparisons between the "figure" who sits upon the throne of god (God the Father is -not- mentioned, but someone is sitting on his throne)
The figure has the appearance of Jasper.
The Jerusalem which descends from Heaven in the last days has the appearance of jasper.
The apostles say that the Jerusalem which is above is our Mother.
The spirit -and- the bride will give out the water of life in the last days.
They will unseal the scrolls which have been hidden from us since the creation of the world.
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Then there is the Male and Female images of God in Genesis.
Adam is a pattern of the one to come, Adam's wife is Eve, the mother of all of the living.
The one to come is Jesus, who also says that he is -also- bringing his wife.
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So when you read everything, in context, Heavenly Mother begins to become more and more an undeniable truth.
WMS brother wrote:
So when you read everything, in context, Heavenly Mother begins to become more and more an undeniable truth.
More like, when you read everything with the interpretations that the wmscog gives you. The wmscog talks often about just reading what the Bible says without man's interpretations, so let's just look at the Bible and not the wmscog interpretations. Let me restate my question again for you…
Without touching Gal. 4:26 (which needs its own conversation),
Can you find any other verse about 'mother' that would refer to God?
And if there isn't another one with the word 'mother', then go look for descriptions of a mother (like Is. 49:15) that does not refer to the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit. Can you find any?
genny wrote:
WMS brother wrote:
So when you read everything, in context, Heavenly Mother begins to become more and more an undeniable truth.
More like, when you read everything with the interpretations that the wmscog gives you.
The closest verse that can stand all by itself is: Galatians 4:26
"But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother."
By this single verse alone, it is clear that -all- Christians have a female Mother who is in heaven, and that she is named, or comparable to, Jerusalem.
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Explaining the details of Mother's relationship to Father requires the verse that says Jesus has a Bride.
Understanding why its important to recognize Mother requires the verse that the Bride is giving out the water of life.
We ask a question, and then answer it with a verse, I personally was very impresssed by how little interpretation was actually used. But anyways;
Galatians 4:26
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If you don't accept Galations 4:26 as a good verse than I don't have any other verses in mind at the moment.
I mean if I could pick and choose what verses other people couldn't use it would be pretty easy to win arguments too.
WMS brother wrote:
The closest verse that can stand all by itself is: Galatians 4:26
"But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother."
By this single verse alone, it is clear that -all- Christians have a female Mother who is in heaven, and that she is named, or comparable to, Jerusalem.
—
Explaining the details of Mother's relationship to Father requires the verse that says Jesus has a Bride.
Understanding why its important to recognize Mother requires the verse that the Bride is giving out the water of life.
We ask a question, and then answer it with a verse, I personally was very impresssed by how little interpretation was actually used. But anyways;
Galatians 4:26
—
If you don't accept Galations 4:26 as a good verse than I don't have any other verses in mind at the moment.
I mean if I could pick and choose what verses other people couldn't use it would be pretty easy to win arguments too.
What I meant (did it not come across right?) was that Gal. 4:26 needs its own conversation because of the complicated way the wmscog uses it.
I wanted to see if you had any other verses that needed attention, and apparently you do not. So, besides Gal. 4:26, there are NO OTHER VERSES that speak of a 'mother' that could be 'god the mother,' correct?
I just want to make sure we are on the same page here. I got a comment on my blog that said, "Not every word saying Mother will represent mother Jerusalem you know… some versicles [verses] will refer to mother jerusalem and some not…"
This person was saying that there are some verses about 'mother' which refer to mother jerusalem. If there are such verses (plural), then I wish to know which ones.
If there is only Gal. 4:26, then that is only one verse (singular).
If there are others, I'd like to talk about them first.
loocpoc wrote:
So when you read everything, in context, Heavenly Mother begins to become more and more an undeniable truth.
Actually no.. The term Elohim means one G-d with make and female thought. Physical bodies were not made until after the 7 days. Jesus was married to Miriam. That his bride.
But you fail to context the term of the sabbath being a bride. For we jews know the bride and she is married to us each week. The shabbos dinner is our wedding feast. And after the feast we relax and enjoy time with our families.
Actually, no, Physical bodies were made millions of years ago as both Science AND God both agree in explicit testimony on several occaisions.
"At the end of the 7 days" was when Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden. Which was heaven, and not earth. But if you ever do find angels with flaming swords, please point the way and I'll gladly eat my words.
"we jews know the bride and she is married to us each week."
If the true context of the bride did equal the sabbath, then how come it says that she must be revealed to John? Surely John must already have been familliar with the sabbath day, and also he had seen plenty of visions about the 'eternal rest' in the Kingdom of heaven. So thats nothing new to reveal to him either.
The bride is something that no one has seen until that day when Jesus reveals her.
It is something no one has paid attention to, which is the reason guests must be invited off the street to attend the wedding.
The bride has not made herself ready yet.
The bride must also be able to speak "come and get the free gift of the water of life"
"Jesus was married to Miriam. That his bride."
I have never learned that to be a fact. I even went searching for material outside the church, and googled bible verses. Nothing came up. This did though:
"The New Testament contains no explicit answer to the question of Jesus’ marital state."
If you can teach me otherwise, please do.
genny wrote:
WMS brother wrote:
The closest verse that can stand all by itself is: Galatians 4:26
Gal. 4:26 needs its own conversation because of the complicated way the wmscog uses it.
besides Gal. 4:26, there are NO OTHER VERSES that speak of a 'mother' that could be 'god the mother,' correct?
I got a comment on my blog that said, "Not every word saying Mother will represent mother Jerusalem you know… some versicles [verses] will refer to mother jerusalem and some not…"
If there is only Gal. 4:26, then that is only one verse (singular).
If there are others, I'd like to talk about them first.
There are others, but Gal 4:26 is the most excplicit one… I would also advise church members to speak more humbly. I hope you didn't feel antagonized?
Isaiah 66:1+ describes our situation in the last days, and says 10+ "Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad for her, all you who love her [maternal stuff] and delight in her abundance … as a mother comforts her child, so I will comfort you; and you will be comforted over Jerusalem"
And then it goes on to describe how people from all across the world will travel, even kings, to give her their offerings.
There is a person on the earth today, whom we call Jerusalem, who is visited by people from all across the world, even Kings, and recieves their praises and gifts.
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