- Topic
- If salvation is through keeping the passover and festival and doing good works and if Jesus Christ ordered us to take the bread and wine on passover day in order to be saved (as wmscog believes) then why did Jesus Christ said to the thief hanging next to Him on the cross “Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Luke:23:43)”That’s not fare. He (the thief) didn’t eat the passover bread and wine I guess and have done no good deeds I am sure. Then why? Why did God the Father put this scene in the last of the film? To demonstrate the essense of the story? Is the essense of the story is that salvation is not through the works but only by believing in His son (Jesus Christ)? The thief did belive in Him as he said “Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. (Luke:23:42)”Again, Why did Jesus Christ denounce the scribes and the Pharisees saying “you make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness. (Luke:11:39)” . The scribes and the Pharisees observed the Law and all the festival. Why couldn’t they be saved?Again again, Remember the rich young man in M’t:19:16-22? What did Jesus Christ say to him when he asked “Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? (M’t:19:16)” Jesus Christ said “if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.(M’t:19:17)”. In M’t:19:18, again the rich man asked “Which?” and Jesus Christ answered him “Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” Note here, Jesus Christ does not mension the Sabbath, festivals or passover. Not even He commanded him to take passover bread and wine.If Sabbath, festivals and Passover were so important, why didn’t Jesus Christ mesion it? And guess what, Passover and fesitivals are not even included in 10 commandments of Old Testament. Were those really so important? But yes, Sabbath is included as “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.(Ex:20:8 kjv). Hay wmscog, can I please keep other days unholy?
Hello oliver log,
Thank you for posting in the forum. You bring up some great points! Why didn’t Jesus mention the Sabbath and Passover when the rich young man asked what he needed to do to be saved? A similar dialogue is repeated in Luke 18:18-30. Again, Jesus does not require any of the ceremonial laws to be observed. Can it be because Jesus came to to fulfill all of the ceremonial laws? The Sabbath, although listed in the 10 commandments, is repeated numerous times throughout the OT as part of the other festivals.
Jesus was very clear when he said that he came to fulfill the law in Matthew 5:17. I have spoken to WMSCOG members who have argued that Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the law. I have to say that I totally agree. If he abolishes the law then there is no reason to fulfill it, is there? He would not have had to suffer on the cross as the Lamb if he just abolished the Passover…that would have been simple. The Father could have just issued a revised version of the commandments in that case right?
So how do we continue to have faith in the fulfillment of the law?…Love! Romans 13:8 says: Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. Brothers and sisters, have faith that Jesus paid our debt for us and that we cannot save ourselves no matter what we do… that includes Sabbath, Passover, other feasts, 5am services, forsaking your family for the gospel, etc.
Galatians 2:16 says: “know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified“.
I pray that WMSCOG members return to the families that miss and love them.The way to salvation is through Jesus Christ our Lord not by works.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies
Jesus says you have to be born again, in the spiritual sense, read John 3:1-7
The road to salvation is clearly structured in Romans. (Imagine a straight roman road to God, this is the one you want to be on).
Let’s begin the Romans Road to Salvation. (You will see clearly it’s not by works, Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.)
You need to understand that the law is there to reveal your sins, your impurity and to bring you to God.
Romans 3:19-20 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:10-18 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”13 “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” 14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 in their paths are ruin and misery, 17 and the way of peace they have not known.” 18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death.
So from the above scriptures, it paints a pretty bleak picture for the ones who think they are righteous by keeping the law and works.
But this is where things become hopeful. It starts in the second part of Romans 6:23
Romans 6:23 but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. <– Did you notice here, it’s a free gift. Do you have to work for a free gift?
Romans 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Confess with your with your mouth, now physically, repent admit you’re a sinner and in need of a saviour, open your heart to Jesus just try it, stop unbelieving and believe in Jesus Christ as your saviour and you will be saved. This is what I did and it changed my life, but you have to mean it from the heart. Notice it doesn't say by works.
Romans 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” <– that is everyone who calls on his name… Call on it! ßjust try it.
Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
If you did the above, your no longer condemned by the law because of your faith in Jesus. Your no longer refusing Jesus Christ sacrifice, because you are no longer saying it’s because of your own works that you are saved. If you think you can save yourself then do it with your works. I can assure you though without Jesus Christ you can’t.
Salvation is not supposed to be difficult, but attainable to all.
Matthew 11:28-30 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Hence why the thief in Luke 23:43 is able to enter paradise in heaven regardless of his bad works, or non-works. Why? Because he repented from an unbeliever to a believer, to the one True God and saviour Jesus Christ.
Get out of false religion as it refers to in Revelation 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
Stop taking the many paths of false religion, go directly to Jesus.
John 14:7 Jesus is ”the way and the truth and the life.
Matthew 7:13-14: Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
This passage above rings so true. I will share all these scriptures above and proclaim this good news but people will just ignore it to their peril. They will continue on the path of works, false religion.
Just to conclude:
John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jesus says in John 10:9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture.
I hope this truth reaches you and sets you free.
John 8:32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free ßif you have found the true Jesus Christ (Not false Christ’s or false religion) then this passage will mean a lot to you.
Amen may God bless you.
ultm8 wrote:
The way to salvation is through Jesus Christ our Lord not by works.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies
Jesus says you have to be born again, in the spiritual sense, read John 3:1-7
The road to salvation is clearly structured in Romans. (Imagine a straight roman road to God, this is the one you want to be on).
Let’s begin the Romans Road to Salvation. (You will see clearly it’s not by works, Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.)
You need to understand that the law is there to reveal your sins, your impurity and to bring you to God.
Romans 3:19-20 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:10-18 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”13 “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” 14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 in their paths are ruin and misery, 17 and the way of peace they have not known.” 18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death.
So from the above scriptures, it paints a pretty bleak picture for the ones who think they are righteous by keeping the law and works.
But this is where things become hopeful. It starts in the second part of Romans 6:23
Romans 6:23 but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. <– Did you notice here, it’s a free gift. Do you have to work for a free gift?
Romans 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Confess with your with your mouth, now physically, repent admit you’re a sinner and in need of a saviour, open your heart to Jesus just try it, stop unbelieving and believe in Jesus Christ as your saviour and you will be saved. This is what I did and it changed my life, but you have to mean it from the heart. Notice it doesn't say by works.
Romans 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” <– that is everyone who calls on his name… Call on it! ßjust try it.
Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
If you did the above, your no longer condemned by the law because of your faith in Jesus. Your no longer refusing Jesus Christ sacrifice, because you are no longer saying it’s because of your own works that you are saved. If you think you can save yourself then do it with your works. I can assure you though without Jesus Christ you can’t.
Salvation is not supposed to be difficult, but attainable to all.
Matthew 11:28-30 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Hence why the thief in Luke 23:43 is able to enter paradise in heaven regardless of his bad works, or non-works. Why? Because he repented from an unbeliever to a believer, to the one True God and saviour Jesus Christ.
Get out of false religion as it refers to in Revelation 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
Stop taking the many paths of false religion, go directly to Jesus.
John 14:7 Jesus is ”the way and the truth and the life.
Matthew 7:13-14: Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
This passage above rings so true. I will share all these scriptures above and proclaim this good news but people will just ignore it to their peril. They will continue on the path of works, false religion.
Just to conclude:
John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jesus says in John 10:9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture.
I hope this truth reaches you and sets you free.
John 8:32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free ßif you have found the true Jesus Christ (Not false Christ’s or false religion) then this passage will mean a lot to you.
Amen may God bless you.
but what about the sabbath? God said in the 10 commandments remember the sabbath by keeping it holy, and Jesus said in the new testament I did not come to abolish the law but to fullfill it. Jesus kept the sabbath and set the example for us. Why are people going to church at their convience and not when God said to do so. Do not follow man made things, sabbath is in the bible.
By the way you make very good points, but in today's world with so many religions how do we know who's right or wrong with 100% certainteed.
ultm8 wrote:
The way to salvation is through Jesus Christ our Lord not by works.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies
Jesus says you have to be born again, in the spiritual sense, read John 3:1-7
The road to salvation is clearly structured in Romans. (Imagine a straight roman road to God, this is the one you want to be on).
Let’s begin the Romans Road to Salvation. (You will see clearly it’s not by works, Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.)
You need to understand that the law is there to reveal your sins, your impurity and to bring you to God.
Romans 3:19-20 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:10-18 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”13 “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” 14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 in their paths are ruin and misery, 17 and the way of peace they have not known.” 18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death.
So from the above scriptures, it paints a pretty bleak picture for the ones who think they are righteous by keeping the law and works.
But this is where things become hopeful. It starts in the second part of Romans 6:23
Romans 6:23 but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. <– Did you notice here, it’s a free gift. Do you have to work for a free gift?
Romans 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Confess with your with your mouth, now physically, repent admit you’re a sinner and in need of a saviour, open your heart to Jesus just try it, stop unbelieving and believe in Jesus Christ as your saviour and you will be saved. This is what I did and it changed my life, but you have to mean it from the heart. Notice it doesn't say by works.
Romans 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” <– that is everyone who calls on his name… Call on it! ßjust try it.
Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
If you did the above, your no longer condemned by the law because of your faith in Jesus. Your no longer refusing Jesus Christ sacrifice, because you are no longer saying it’s because of your own works that you are saved. If you think you can save yourself then do it with your works. I can assure you though without Jesus Christ you can’t.
Salvation is not supposed to be difficult, but attainable to all.
Matthew 11:28-30 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Hence why the thief in Luke 23:43 is able to enter paradise in heaven regardless of his bad works, or non-works. Why? Because he repented from an unbeliever to a believer, to the one True God and saviour Jesus Christ.
Get out of false religion as it refers to in Revelation 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
Stop taking the many paths of false religion, go directly to Jesus.
John 14:7 Jesus is ”the way and the truth and the life.
Matthew 7:13-14: Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
This passage above rings so true. I will share all these scriptures above and proclaim this good news but people will just ignore it to their peril. They will continue on the path of works, false religion.
Just to conclude:
John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jesus says in John 10:9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture.
I hope this truth reaches you and sets you free.
John 8:32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free ßif you have found the true Jesus Christ (Not false Christ’s or false religion) then this passage will mean a lot to you.
Amen may God bless you.
but what about the sabbath? God said in the 10 commandments remember the sabbath by keeping it holy, and Jesus said in the new testament I did not come to abolish the law but to fullfill it. Jesus kept the sabbath and set the example for us. Why are people going to church at their convience and not when God said to do so. Do not follow man made things, sabbath is in the bible.
By the way you make very good points, but in today's world with so many religions how do we know who's right or wrong with 100% certainteed.
Hi LUV. The Saturday Sabbath has been debated over and over in Christian circles, probably because there is evidence both for and against the requirement to keep it–probably because of the difference between the Old Testament (Covenant) and the New Testament (Covenant).
Here's a site that may help you see a different perspective:
http://exadventist.com/Home/Sabbath/SabbathSunday/tabid/516/Default.aspx
Hi LUV. The Saturday Sabbath has been debated over and over in Christian circles, probably because there is evidence both for and against the requirement to keep it–probably because of the difference between the Old Testament (Covenant) and the New Testament (Covenant).
Here's a site that may help you see a different perspective:
http://exadventist.com/Home/Sabbath/SabbathSunday/tabid/516/Default.aspx
This is how it was taught to me.
1st: god can do whatever god wants to do. Whatever god says is what shall be. If god says to a candle “produce light” it will do so even though no one physically set the wick on fire. God defies all law and theory. The law of christ (iaw the cog) is to keep PO for salvaltion. But god defies all law. By defies I mean god is not limited like man is. When god said to anyone you will be saved, guess what.. they will be saved. Why? Because god said so. But we cannot wait for god to simply tell us we are saved because that might not happen. So, just in case we are not priviledged enough to be saved without obeying the law, we keep the law. God, supposedly, must keep all promises made. God said, iaw the cog, keep the po and you’ll be saved. Therefor, whoever keeps po must be saved. God cannot change his mind after you’ve kept it and say, everyone but you even though you did what I asked.
2nd: obeying god isn’t works. Otherwise we could murder, commit adultry, and worship any god and still go to heaven as long we confess jesus is our saviour. It is proven that actions speak louder than words. Anyone can I love you but if that person sleeps with someone else, steals money from you, etc…. you will begin to question if he/she truly loves you. That’s why jesus said whoever says he loves me but does NOT do what I command is a LIAR. He said himself in a number of words that believing jesus is lord isn’t enough. But then again, how do you know you believe? If you had a sickness and the doctor said to take a certain antibiotic so you may be cured, what would you do? If you believed he knew what he was talking about you would take the medicine wouldn’t you? How can you say, I believe this medicine will cure me but not consume it? This is why james said faith without deeds is useless. There is nothing you can do to get into heaven. No amount money you can make. No amount of sacrifices. No amount of community service. Nothing. But it is because god said, do this and you will be saved, is how you enter heaven. This is what I was taught.
I read something that tickled my fancy. It said, what if jesus was a joke nobody understood? What if in the furture and bunch of people put together a book about chuck norris and all the amazing things he did as a joke and now people believe he is the saviour? I thought it was funny because a little while ago I saw a stand up (on tv) and the guy was joking about jesus walking on water. That he didn’t walk on water but ran really fast across a puddle. That he didn’t feed 5,000 people. It was just an exaggeration. Lol.. laugh, its funny. =)
it is true you cannot believe in someone while not believing what they say
You are talking about something different. What does it mean to believe in santa? Generally, to believe in santa is to believe he exists. What does it mean to believe in jesus? Generally, by christian, to believe in jesus is to believe he saves our souls. Now if personally, someone uses the term believe with a different sense then whatever. Understand where the writer comes from when the writer mentions believe.
Hello Genny, hello Renita thank you for your comments @ Genny read the article wow I can see both sides of the story, may God guide me through this difficult journey, I am really confused now.
@ ultm8 the wmscog would easily debunk everything you noted ( I say you make very good points, but the sabbath was on my mind until I read the article Genny posted, so I'm researching more)
Ultm8 everything you noted from the bible makes a lot of sense, but they will say that was all in the age of the son, and that now we are in the age of the holy spirit. They will show you verses in the O.T. that mention Jehova as the savior, but then Jesus came and the name change, and so the same thing is happening now, so it makes sense that there will be a new name.
Please if you can prove this wrong let me know, how can you debunk what they are saying, if we are living in the age of the holy spirit and the name is suppose to change, how can you prove otherwise. Is this generation the one to get the new name or is that towards the future?
The only thing I'm not understanding is the following, if we have the new name, why do they want to preach mother instead of telling people about the new name first? Is'nt the new name most important to know and to be saved by?
They preach mother because she is the source of life. They say if you don’t accept mother there’s no way you’ll accept father. Its more important to know mother because she’s the one who gives us enternal life. Father just prepares the way. But honestly, I think if you tell someone the 2nd coming has already happened they’ll just look at you crazy more often than if you say, “have you ever. Wondered why we have a father but no mother?” The latter is more comprehendable* than the former…. at least I think it is.
LUV wrote:
Ultm8 everything you noted from the bible makes a lot of sense, but they will say that was all in the age of the son, and that now we are in the age of the holy spirit. They will show you verses in the O.T. that mention Jehova as the savior, but then Jesus came and the name change, and so the same thing is happening now, so it makes sense that there will be a new name.
Please if you can prove this wrong let me know, how can you debunk what they are saying, if we are living in the age of the holy spirit and the name is suppose to change, how can you prove otherwise. Is this generation the one to get the new name or is that towards the future?
First see Exodus 3:14-15:
14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
15 God also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’
“This is my name forever,
the name you shall call me
from generation to generation.
This is where the name Yahweh or Jehovah was established. Obviously, this name was meant to be forever, not just for an age.
Now let's see Luke 3:21-22:
21 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
In these two verses you have the simultaneous appearance of all 3 separate entities that make up the Trinity. Clearly the Father Son and Holy Sprit are separate and simultaneous. We could quote many passages but these are proof enough don't you think?
renita.payno wrote:
This is how it was taught to me.
…But we cannot wait for god to simply tell us we are saved because that might not happen. So, just in case we are not priviledged enough to be saved without obeying the law, we keep the law. God, supposedly, must keep all promises made. God said, iaw the cog, keep the po and you'll be saved. Therefor, whoever keeps po must be saved. God cannot change his mind after you've kept it and say, everyone but you even though you did what I asked.
Thanks for explaining this Renita.
"Whoever keeps the Passover must be saved. God cannot change His mind after you've kept it," but what if the person goes through the motions, but doesn't really believe? Will God still keep this promise? And are you keeping the Passover so God will be obligated to save you? Romans 4:4-5 says, "Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness." This is one place where salvation by works goes wrong.
renita.payno wrote:
2nd: obeying god isn't works. Otherwise we could murder, commit adultry, and worship any god and still go to heaven as long we confess jesus is our saviour. It is proven that actions speak louder than words. Anyone can I love you but if that person sleeps with someone else, steals money from you, etc…. you will begin to question if he/she truly loves you.
You're right, that kind of "faith" doesn't save you. (James 2:14)
That's why jesus said whoever says he loves me but does NOT do what I command is a LIAR. He said himself in a number of words that believing jesus is lord isn't enough. But then again, how do you know you believe? If you had a sickness and the doctor said to take a certain antibiotic so you may be cured, what would you do? If you believed he knew what he was talking about you would take the medicine wouldn't you? How can you say, I believe this medicine will cure me but not consume it? This is why james said faith without deeds is useless.
I think difference here with the WMSCOG is that they believe it is rituals and ceremonies and services that must be done to obey God, while the Christian churches believe obeying God has to do more generally with loving God and following God's moral instructions (rather than ceremonial).
There is nothing you can do to get into heaven. No amount money you can make. No amount of sacrifices. No amount of community service. Nothing. But it is because god said, do this and you will be saved, is how you enter heaven. This is what I was taught.
And here's where it gets contradictory. "Nothing you can do" but you have to "do this." I have found a full reading of the New Testament (not just selected verses) to show that God's requirement for salvation is to (truly) believe Jesus, and the *result* (what follows salvation) is a life showing the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:23-23) and not indulging the sinful nature (Gal. 5:13).
If you search the New Testament for "command" and "law" to see what Jesus' explicit commands for us are, you find these:
Mark 12:29-31 29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these.”
John 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."
John 15:12 "My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you."
John 15:17 "This is my command: Love each other."
Acts 17:30 "In the past God over looked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent"
Romans 13:8-10 "Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."
1 Cor. 7:10-11 "To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife."
1 Cor. 14 (rules for worship services)
Gal. 5:14 "For the entire law is fulfilled by keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself.""
Gal. 6:2 "Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ."
1 John 3:23 "And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us."
1 John 4:21 "And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister."
2 John 1:6 "And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love."
So we've got love, love, love, love, repent, love, don't divorce (which falls under 'love'), have orderly meeting times (which also falls under 'love'–building each other up), love, carry each other's burdens (also 'love'), believe in Jesus and love each other, love, and one more love.
And then there's Matthew 19:17-21
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 'honor your father and mother,' and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”
20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
Those commands are also in the 'love' category.
There are lots of other 'do this' and 'don't do that' kinds of statements in the New Testament, but these are the ones that are explicit commands. It's interesting that if Sabbath and Passover (and all feasts and the veil and even tithing) are such important commands, why are they never written together with the word "command"? There were plenty of opportunities.
i have a lack of words to explain what i mean by “nothing you can do”. …. Example, i hurt your feelings and you say I’ll never forgive you unless you build my son a house. I give you money enough to buy a house but am not forgiven. I treat you with extra kindness but am not forgiven. I build you a house and finally am forgiven. Do you understand what I’m trying to say?
They have a study where it is explained that the only way you can love God only is to rid yourself of the existence of all other gods which is done through the po. All other gods are judged when you keep po making out impossible to worship other gods. Therefore you love God with all your heart and soul by keeping po. To keep po is a command in a round about way. As well as sabbath. Follow the example of Jesus and the apostles.
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