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Well here's a new video, what do you guys think?
Took a quick break from work, so I'll have to watch the rest later, but first thoughts:
"EVERY time there was a disagreement"….ugh, the hyperbole of black/white thinking.
video of mom & dad at the church…what a shocker!
blame game of the "cult counselors" causing the family stress…again, shocker!
let this video of hers serve as this lesson: the first good excuse/reason that eases the tension in the members' minds will suffice to keep them trapped in their flawed thinking. they have friends there, and things they like. of course they will find something or someone to blame! they are special….just like millions of other chosen people in special groups that stomp out information critical to the group, and ostracize those who leave.
Talk about one-sided….we speak out, we lose our family and friends.
suggestion: bump YT videos that are useful with the same keywords as she has used???
Well Rebecca, come on for goodness sake!!! We all know here how’s the game at WMSCOG… You already know how Daniel Lee and his robots aka Missionarys aka Deacons are behind this Ludacris video. Your parents said you have “two Beckys” the cult Becky and their daughter Becky. It doesn’t take just Steve Hassan to say what it really is. It takes a former member like myself and
Many others to testify what it really is. It’s either the ones who decide on sleeping for their whole lives or those who want to wake up. You know more than anyone, and you too missionary victor, and you took Deaconess Silson (because you are forever reading what goes on this website) that Rebecca solely would not arrange this video respond. No matter how much you guys try to rectify everything that is being exposed you know damn well that every year you will have members coming out this foolish business organization and continue to testify what they really know. It’s sad, it’s really sad to see such a bright girl as Rebecca to be blind in what she calls her belief. Her mother did what any other parent would do under desperation. She didn’t do it to put you to shame Rebecca she did it cause she lovesyou. And you know damn well that the church seperates you totally from your family. They certainly don’t encourage anyone to spend time with them. Maybe now, because this is a recent news Mr. Lee throws everyone off by telling the members to go and spend time with their family . Smh
I respectfully disagree. And, I believe Rebecca Gardner really believes it. There is enough evidence out there that some members of groups like these treat the incoming information in such a way as those that disagree, it just doesn't matter what they say to "help" members, the information gets discarded because they have treated the group poorly – according to how the member sees it, and I think Rebecca sees it this way.
The first bit of information that brings her world into alignment – she bites. It is sad to see.
The parents should go back to loving their daughter and going to events like the one "captured" in the video (OMG – WHATACOINCIDENCE). This group will not be able to provide the unconditional love that it portends to give. There will come a day when she steps out of line, just like Ron and Diane did…and Rebecca will get the boot and ostracism, just like they did.
The group will have to go back to hard-line don't-even-go-on-the-internet or you will not have Mother's protection if you do, which will push some out that notice the inconsistencies, go online, and research, and come back with uncomfortable questions. They will try to have secret meetings with people they think they trust, but will get told on, which cause them to see the deception while others still think they are doing Mother's great work for the world by protecting the flock from Satan's fingers of influence.
There is a new wave of push-outs on the horizon, folks. I hope my friend is one of them.
@JW I think they are going to mix tactics. They will go hard at the doubting members and tell them, “Anyone looking at internet, is ______” (fill in blank with a Biblical character reference, or adjective). I think they will also monitor members activities, listen to their comments and make public examples. Im thinking they will start putting reverse cult reseach sites run by members and put info that will point them to other organizations but not them.
Agreed, UtJ.
They can mix tactics, and be inconsistent. Inconsistency serves to throw members off balance – confuse them sometimes. When you hold the keys to the kingdom of heaven….its one of the…advantages.
Yes, squeeze out those that are problematic – it has to be done anyway.
As for the reverse cult research – yup, that science group took over CAN (cult awareness network) way back when (after they bankrupted CAN).
BTW, RG(rebecca gardner) claims to have been locked in a hotel room? This makes no sense. If Hassan is so money-hungry-greedy, then why would he risk being put in jail? But, groups like this don't care much for being consistent, do they? Maybe Hassan of 1970, but not the Hassan 2016. And I don't know of any "cult counselor" that does involuntary interventions – I researched and called four and none are interested in going to jail.
Did you learn Matthew 10:16 as a convenient excuse to justify lying? [Note to current members reading this: there are a number of problematic groups that use the same verse to justify (what they call) "white lies"…so…good luck with having that in common, smh]. And RG whines about her parents' "acts of deception" ffs…
@JW Great point. WMS doesnt like critical thinking. Being locked in a hotel room is Kidnapping. Im not Kat Williams, and locking someone in a hotel room to prove a point is as bad as……Locking someone in a church, all day Saturday? And telling them if they step out of the building to run to Mcdonalds because they want a Cheeseburger, they will be in danger of hell? Pretty creepy.
UntouchableJ wrote:
And telling them if they step out of the building to run to Mcdonalds because they want a Cheeseburger, they will be in danger of hell? Pretty creepy.
yet, effective.
Here is a thought that got me out of bed and to work early today:
have we fallen asleep? Have we noticed the excellent play by the leadership at this place?
ITS NOT JUST STEVE HASSAN ANYMORE. THIS HAS TURNED IN TO ALL CULT COUNSELORS.
Nicely played, I do have to admit.
But you will soon churn out my friend, and I will be there when you ostracize and turn your backs.
@JW And whats funny is they are leading members to believe;
All Exmembers are lead by Hassan
ExMembers are being Paid by NCPCOG
Many Exmembers have aspirations of being licensed Cult Experts.
My question would be… who is the intended audience of for this video? If they are looking to defend the actions of Rebecca with current members – no need to bother! If they kept members who were told the world would end in 2012, they will keep the members that watched the Today Show video.
Is it for the ex-members? Nope!
So if they are thinking that people that are not members will think better of their church by watching this video – again wrong! Whether people believe Rebecca or her parents – it doesn't really matter. The part that will keep people away is the "cult" behavior of the group that was shown in the few second clip: All the Korean men in dark suits and women in dresses worshipping Mama Z and all the NJ people in yellow t-shirts yelling and signing "we love you", the men in white shirts and ties on the hill with their bibles…. the creepiest thing about the whole story. Of course the Korean leadership probably doesn't see it that way; they promote dressing in suits (cultural thing). To Americans it just looks creepy! And Americans will be the turn-off.
I would hope that the current members would question why this group continuously makes videos defending themselves from other videos – but then that is not the behavior of devoted controlled followers. They will believe what they are told – that they are being persecuted and that is why they have to defend. So how is the word of mother's love going to reach the world?
The pieces don't fit: They want the world to know about mother but she won't do an interview to share her message. They say we love you and run a "we love you" foundation but they don't show love or turn the other cheek the way Jesus said – they retaliate. The missionary Powers said they are about unifying families but having Rebecca make a rebuttal video is not about unifying her with her family. Once again – waste of time for WMSCOG. If they are worried about members leaving because of videos like this, they should have a talk with Rebecca and send her home to see her family. If they get members to show love to their families, there would not be a need for media to expose them for separating families. They are worried about members "falling away" so they keep them from their family's influence – when in reality keeping them from their families is what is causing their problems.
Here's a message to all the WMS spies reading this site – let your leaders know that "controlling" groups like this never thrive. Look at the JWs. Sure they have members – but they sure don't grow much and the people leaving start ex-member groups (like some of your ex-members). If you want to make your group successful – you can't have the love stop at the new member entering your program. You need to show love to them always, accept their families (even when they don't believe your BS) and you show them love and teach your members to always show them love. Shunning, controlling, separating – doesn't work. Even the Mormons have figured this out. They believe crazy stuff too but they are growing in members (partially due to lack of birth control) but also because they teach their children to love, preach, teach, learn (they actually encourage degrees) participate in society and enjoy life. Your poor members are trapped behind closed doors till 2 in the morning learning how to control and manipulate others so they get a sticker star on their recruiting chart. Time for a new plan if you want to keep members and gain new ones. There you go – saved you from another rebuttal video!
@Msfreedom. If they listened to you, they really would survive, hell…even prosper. I remember first noticing as a member, how they all dress alike. I of course shut it off internally, but then I look at again through this video. I remember brothers complementing me on how I dressed, but I was always confused why they wouldn’t step out, and dress , well, NORMAL. The non tailored suits, bland ties, tie clips, cheesy parted comb-overs, no facial hair, cheap cologne. The sisters, with the drab long skirts, no makeup (some), etc. I guess I’m having a moment, realizing the power they really had over me.
They do have some things in common with the Mormons. The Mormons made Joseph Smith their prophet when he died, equal to Christ because he wrote a holy book from golden tablets that became their doctrine (copycat Ahn and People/Sheep book). Then they made Brigham Young their next prophet (maybe on a little lower scale) and then he died. Of course this is in the 1800s so Zang will never live to see if her followers survive; neither will the general pastor – I can never remember that guy's name. And of course, the Mormons believed in building their following by birthing them where as the WMS – well, not so much. Arranged marriages were common in the Mormon life early on – it just happened that their were no laws in Utah so they could have many wives.
If you have ever studied the Mormon history, you know that polygamy stopped when they wanted Utah to become a state and they could only do that if they abolished polygamy. So of course, like WMS changes their story, the Mormons suddenly received a revelation from heaven that polygamy was no longer in god's plan – splinter groups who still practice polygamy exist (Warren Jeffs and Sister Wives comes to mind). The bottom line is that any group that wants to survive, must change with the times or they will lose their members and more detrimental to the group, they will not gain new members. The Mormons dress like the rest of us (except for their special underwear). You never see anyone trying to look, dress and comb their hair like Joseph Smith – but to be fair – who knows what they did a couple hundred years ago!
The Mormons are oposite of WMS in many respects however, as they promote families and even have one day a week set aside where the family has home night: prayer, maybe some book of Mormon stuff and then games, crafts, music, a movie, etc. with the family. In addition, the Mormons believe that their christ chose the US as his holy land and the Koreans believe that South Korea is the spot. Same circus different clowns. (But much better looking clowns on the Mormon side and creepy clowns on the WMS side!)
Ms.Freedom Your spot on. In the WMS vs. Tark lawsuit, it mentioned that WMS originally had some dogma making taking the shoes off in the church, a holy rule. I remember my first year, we had to take our shoes off in the sanctuary. The excuse was, “We have nice new wooden floors”, and “They take their shoes off in Korea, its just a small custom”. They even said, “Well you can leave your shoes on if you want bredder, its not a command”. I think initially it was a command. Your totally right, they have to change with the times. Even with things they dont agree with, they just tell members, “You have to make that decision for yourself”, or “Be it unto your faith.” I did see that from a Sociological standpoint(my minor in college), they understand how quickly Norms can change even, by one person. When I dress up, Ive always been modern and proper fitting. My dad was a corporate sales manager and stressed it. So when I came with different colored shirts, lapel flowers, french cuffshirts and dry cleaned shirts (Never understood why men would wash a dress shirt and ruin it) it started to spread. One “brother” I was close to, wore a lapel flower one feast, and was rebuked by the Overseer, and told to “take off that ugly thing”. One person can change things in that church, thats why they stress, “Dont grumble and complain”.
Wow WOW WOW MS. FREEDOM . That was awesome! you wrote exactly what I have been saying even way before I left the church. Things they needed to change in order for their members to stay. Even though, they have changed alot of their manipulating ways because they have seen that it hasnt give them good results. However, dividing their families and freinds , they still have to work on a little more. Believe me when I tell you (with a sarcastic face) they are trying. We must give them some credit. Now they are letting the members have babies, in fact they are encouraging them to have babies. Whereas before, we all knew how it was… Why are we bringing another sinner to the world. Or why are we going to have babie if we won't be able to work the gospel and bla bla bla.
@Ms. Freedom: You are always spot on! I hope the Wms people are taking notes!
You know what really stands out to me on the Rebecca video for the today show and the interview with John Powers is how joyless and unhappy they seem. The church promotes that the only place you can be happy is in their Zion, basically, and in the "truth." Yet these two look so joyless. The video of Rebecca talking to her parents from her car looks more than joyless, it looks like she is filled with hate and callousness toward people who love her. (Even though I heard she is a very nice person, and I think that is probably so deep down) If she truly is a nice person, then it must really tear her apart inside to have to (at the urging of her church) rip into her mom like that. It can't make her feel good about herself, in any case.
Ex members also say how miserable the majority of their time was there. I know they are not happy there, but cannot grumble or complain while there. What I wonder is how they can live with themselves if they try to portray to new recruits that their church brings so much happiness, and that it doesn't cause any problems in families. Did it cause all kinds of strife in Rebecca's? Rhetorical question there.
Another topic: How well do those arranged marriages work out?
Another thing: The Korean influence in the way they dress certainly doesn't crossover to the U.S. which is why that piece in the video of all the members dressing alike stands out. I know of a mother whose son is an active member. He met them for a dinner on a Friday night after work and he was wearing a suit and tie. The mother asked her son if he wore that to work that day (his work environment is casual). He said no, he changed before he came. This is an example of the influence of the group on its members – clearly their opinion that he should dress this way because there is nothing Biblical to support this. It reminds me of the old pictures of men in the 1930's at baseball games wearing suits, ties, and hats! Another example of WMS not changing with the times, remaining outdated, and standing out as different.
sunshine wrote:
Wow WOW WOW MS. FREEDOM . That was awesome! you wrote exactly what I have been saying even way before I left the church. Things they needed to change in order for their members to stay. Even though, they have changed alot of their manipulating ways because they have seen that it hasnt give them good results. However, dividing their families and freinds , they still have to work on a little more. Believe me when I tell you (with a sarcastic face) they are trying. We must give them some credit. Now they are letting the members have babies, in fact they are encouraging them to have babies. Whereas before, we all knew how it was… Why are we bringing another sinner to the world. Or why are we going to have babies if we won't be able to work the gospel and bla bla bla.
@Mountain Lol, men in suits at Baseball games. So true. I remeber when we would have “family” events. Many times, because the first Overseer forced a dress code, the Deacons would go in 3-button Polo shirts, Khakis and hard bottom shoes. They really didnt know how to dress down. And they had to tuck in their shirts. They didnt seem to know how to be themselves as a “Non” gospel worker. A psychologist will tell you that we wear many hats; Dad, Brother, Father, Employee. But when at any point these selves become mixed it can become toxic. This is what WMS is just figuring out, after intially coming here and yelling at members for not wanting to essentially become Koreans. I do fear though, if they figure out the formula, will they succeed? Will they grow more?
@Untouchable: I thought of that myself. But some things they are trying to do now as change will actually backfire on them in the end, I believe. Changes they would have to make that allow people to be with their families more would give the family unit of non members more influence. It would give families the chance to counter the ever present undue influence of the Wms. Mind control doesn't work if it can't be applied consistently. If they aren't always at the church they will not be subject to all the manipulations that cause them to give in to that destructive influence and they won't be as "obedient" as their overseers want them to be.
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