- Topic
Reality distortion field sounds like something from.science fiction it’s actually the term used to describe the ability for people like steve jobs and bill clinton to have charisma and ability to convince others what they want them to believe.
does anyone think that this could be used by wmc?
If anyone knows about this.psychology how would we know as victims and how do you overcome the trickery
Elievalkyrie,
My relative was in the cog for over a year before I realized what was happening, and because I was so far away, I didn't notice changes either. His wife didn't say anything at first. She didn't really like him going there, but put up with it because it was only on Saturdays and only for a few hours and he wanted to go. The excessive demands come later, as they will for your brother as well, I am sure, once they ensure his commitment. There is a process they go through which appears to take a while, but it is a canned process, and does not really seem to differ all that much from church to church when you examine it, as I have for the past three years. For the recruit, it is like a frog in a frying pan of boiling water. The heat is turned up a little at a time, and even though the frog should sense it and jump out, he stays because it is happening so slowly he doesn't realize he is in danger. And then it is too late, the damage is done. He can't get out.
My relative was only at church on Saturdays and only for a few hours for probably over a year. But all of a sudden, (after three weeks of sleep deprivation and exhaustion after the festivals in September) he was convinced he should tithe, go all day Saturdays to church, go Tuesdays, and submit to any request of another member at any time of the day or night. He was sometimes there at church as many hours as he was at work, at his very demanding job. He was exhausted all the time and was told he had to study their books, listen to their cd's, and watch their videos all the time because the "end is near." There was no time for anything else because he had to start recruiting all the time to "bear fruits" for the mother. Can you see how this was not conducive to good family relationships or his marriage? His time, his mind, and his assets became theirs. It was a gradual, but complete takeover. Unfortunately, he gets paid a very good professional wage, and the church gets most of it, and that is not all as far as the financial takeover that happened.
I am quite sure my relative was set up in advance (like a pre-emptive strike) to discount our concerns when we finally saw what was going on. Even further, he denounced the very loving and carefuly worded letter we wrote to him as a "vicious attack." No one who had not been set up would have seen that letter as vicious. We wrote and re-wrote it before sending to make sure it was with total love and respect toward him. My guess is that he took it to the guy who recruited him and this guy re-interpreted it for him so he would see us in a bad light. We have always had great love and respect for this family member, and we always will, regardless of what happens. It just hurts very badly to see him, in our opinion, manipulated, exploited, and turned against his family. And this is not just one example. It appears that this is how the church operates all over this country. It's apparently very common for the wmscog to cause family problems. That is what I now see, and what others are seeing.
I see. Thank you for sharing this with me MountainMom. I don't want you thinking that I am siding with the wmscog, so I'll assure you that I have been spreading the news to my friends about the "culty" things happening around in our area too. I do this at my own risk of losing my brother's trust if he ever finds out but luckily he is in a different city.
I am handling my brother as patiently as I could at this moment and constantly praying for him. Maybe God has plans and purpose for our loved-ones that were taken by the wmscog but if we, the families, are diligent enough, with God's grace we CAN overcome this.
I would like to ask about that letter you wrote. Does the letter contain something like "you are in a cult" or "they are deceiving you" or "you are not thinking right" kind of words? I find that direct attacks to the wmscog does not help, even though you are not saying something bad to the member, they see it as such when you say something bad, even a tiny speck of it, about their "chosen" religion. So I am trying this "infiltrate, get-him-to-trust-you approah and little by little, convince him that he is in a cult". Since your loved-one is on a hunt for "fruits" why not be the fruit or assign someone with grounded beliefs to be the fruit? The technique here is to get someone to be trusted by him so that he can give effort enough to listen. But I am not really an expert here, I just saw this advice on the video circulating in this forum.
We all have our struggles, and some are still struggling even now. But I will do my best to combat this cult and at the same time try to save my brother from them. Nothing is impossible to God.
Elie,
We worded things very carefully, but yes, I did use the word cult at some time in that letter. Remember, this was before I had really knew much about how these groups operate. I naively thought I was still talking to my son who had always respected my opinion above all others. I wasn't talking to him, though, I was talking to his "group speak" personality and I didn't know that at the time. I didn't know he was set up to view anything I said in love and concern as a "vicious attack." Our intention was the opposite of that. He said to me once, "Why don't you and Dad support me?" I hope he realizes some day that we view our efforts to free him from their influence as the greatest support he could ask for.We love him dearly and always will.
Believe me, I now know all the mistakes I made and how to speak with him at this point. I've spent over 3 years researching, reading books, attending conferences, and even visiting his Zion ocasionally. I cannot go often because he is so far away, although I have gone there with him when I visited his city. My husband has also flown there around 8 times to keep contact with our son. We don't speak ill of the church or its members and we are always polite to members when we go there. I don't call it a cult anymore. Mainly because I wouldn't feel a bit better even if an expert assured me it wasn't a cult. It isn't about the label, it is all about the harm they do mentally, physically, and emotionally. I have given you only the tip of the iceberg of this story and the horrendous things that have happened to my son and to our family as a result of his association with the wmscog. And I often worry about him when he finally realizes what they have done to him. I don't think he will magically turn back in to his former self. I think he is going to have to deal with so much emotional turmoil that it will take years to get over it. However, we will all be there for him when this happens. And it will. In God's good time.
I will pray for you too, MountainMom. Have your son ever mentioned to you the exact date of their predictions about the "end-of-the-world"? My brother said that they weren't told the exact time but only that it is very very near. I am also keeping in touch with him by chatting with him everyday to somehow monitor his activities as much as I can. All I could say is that he is pretty hooked up with his beliefs about this wmscog thing. *Sigh*
Yes, the date was 2012. However, that has gotten murkier as the date approaches. Also, there has been denial that 2012 was ever mentioned as a date. I personally know the parents of a new recruit in Seattle who said their son was told 2018, and 2012 was never mentioned. Interesting, isn't it?
Yes, very interesting. Thank you for this info, MountainMom. How I wish I could gather the victims of the wmscog, ex-members and families alike, tie my brother up and make him listen to these horrible stories about the wmscog so I could force him to acknowledge the truth just to get it over with but I can't do that. I have to admit, my patience is running thin. Just had a chat with him now, it's really frustrating to play innocent when I could almost picture his imminent ruination by joining this cult. Argh! Really really exasperating.
Elie, check your PM's
MountainMom wrote:
Yes, the date was 2012. However, that has gotten murkier as the date approaches. Also, there has been denial that 2012 was ever mentioned as a date. I personally know the parents of a new recruit in Seattle who said their son was told 2018, and 2012 was never mentioned. Interesting, isn't it?
yes it is interesting, these people just keep going and going, I do hope my friend opens up his eyes, because they also told him 2012 I hope he does not fall for another lame excuse.
There's just really a lot of edited info. My brother said that they weren't told of the exact date of the end-of-the-world.
Oh and he also said that the 144,000 could be any members of the wmscog. As long as you do anything they say or command, without any questions asked, without any complains, YOU CAN BECOME a part of that 144thou. So there's no guarantee, because only "god" knows who gets in. So I guess this is how they compel some members of following blindly. All of the members are "on the race" of entering that 144thou promise before it reaches limit and the door be shut on their faces.
It's like a tv show. "Who's going to receive one of the 144,000 tickets to Heaven?" Hurry before the ticket is all out!
Simon, maybe your experience was different than others, but the people I know in the wmscog were told that destruction of the world would be in 2012. That is not a mistake, that is not a misunderstanding. They were crystal clear in their words. These people were told they had to "study even in your sleep" because destruction is coming in 2012. I believe you are right that not every Zion is exactly the same in what is being told to members. However, I think it's possible that people in more recently formed Zions with younger members are not telling them 2012 but, as in one case I know of personally, telling them 2018 instead. That is a little further out, but still can be a useful date to instill a sense of urgency so they can tell them to get out and preach all the time.
You said the Feast of the Tabernacles had to be fulfilled by 2012 as a way of explanation, and also that 2012 was the end of the Gospel Age. Maybe that is what you were told, but it is defiinitely not what the others were told, and it was no misunderstanding in the wmscog where the people I know personally went. Members of my family heard it said by members of the church, at the church, directly to us several times. There is no going back on this one. They said it over and over, not just once. The 2012 date was told to us by people who made several trips to Korea and spoke to the "Mother." So how can they be so wrong? Of course, 2012 isn't over yet. But when it is, they will make a cover-up excuse. "People must have misunderstood," "People have preached incorrectly." Well, everybody knows exactly what they heard. A cover-up or spin won't cut it.
I agree with MountainMom 100%
Just want to add, no offense intended by my last post to you, Simon, or to members of the cog who really believe (no matter how misguided they've been) in what they are saying. I just know for a fact what was said, and want there to be no question. There was no mistake here. It was intended that people believe the world was going to end in 2012.
Simon, thank you for your response. I really am trying to unravel all this and understand as best I can. I respectfully disagree somewhat with your statement that Zions clearly vary place to place. I agree that there are small differences, but they are insignificant. What I am finding is that the main mantra is the same, the dates of destruction may vary, but only to suit the purposes of recruiting. The deceptive approach is the same, the canned process is the same, and the end result is the same. Those parts do not vary. The destructive part of this organization doesn't change. I wish it wasn't so. I wish my relative in this organization had actually found something good that would have helped him to be the better person he wanted to be. If it had, we all would have jumped in there with him. It hurts me to see how it has damaged him in all ways.
My advice to anyone who is approached by these people is to do their research and then go the other direction.
Yea, once you actually go to 2 or 3 zions, you’ll see the major differences. In santee zion I was taught that everyone needs to be saved so everyone needs to hear the truth. In richmond zion, I told only to share with young people. That’s a major difference. Once church is implying that only certain people can receive salvation.
In our zion, they taught all kinds of people even old ones but almost all members that I see during saturdays are young ones.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.