[Disturbed]

Emil this is for you…

I just wanted to begin this thread to start the discussion on the WMSCOG's teaching that the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) is the beast spoken of in Daniel chapters 2 & 7 and Revelation chapters 13 & 17.  It startes off:

Daniel 7:25

25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

[Simon]

[Simon]

One can argue anything

[genny]

Simon wrote:

We shouldn't call either lucifer really (unless speaking latin)

I agree.  The semantics just don't work well.

[Sarah2013]

We all know who best fits the beast in Revelation and Daniel. All churches have their issues but this group is far from a church. It’s all about the gold, silver and modern day slavery. If the beast is the RCC then I’d hate to know what the real God calls Wmscog.

Four words: “Let my ( not me ) people go.”

[Smurf]

Sarah2013 wrote:

 

Four words: "Let my ( not me ) people go."

Wise man, that Louis Arsmstrong, wise man.

Too bad about the whole doping scandal.

[emil]

Sarah2013 wrote:

Interesting to know that, Genny. Had no idea. I'd rather not call Jesus Lucifer though, since like most, I identify that word with Satan. I'd probably confuse a bunch of poor souls. Lol.

You wouldn't call Jesus Lucifer anyway. If we were speaking English, we would call him the bearer of light or a similar phrase. If you were speaking Latin, it would be lucifer or some such word which does not refer to Satan. The word becoming a name mistakenly used for Satan happened much later when Isaiah 14:12 was wrongly translated as a proper noun in English.

[Simon]

Wtf smurf. 0o

[Simon]

It wasn’t translated for Greeks

[Love'n Honey]

emil wrote:

@Disturbed – thank you for resurrecting this. FTOS had previously run away from the challenges to this teaching which Genny and I had presented. Genny challenged it from the point of view of the historical inaccuracies of the idea of the 10 kingdoms. I had challenged it from the PoV of the historical accuracy of the sequence in daniel 7. Since we now have this new thread I will briefly repeat my argument. This argument is specifically to challenge the WMSCOG teaching and not others before that since we are here to examine the WMSCOG.

Daniel 7 describes a vision that ends with verse 14. Verse 15 onwards is a interpretation of the vision. The simple truth of the vision is that the little horn appears in verse 8 and its actions continue until the appearance of the son of man in verse 13. It is one continuous narration. The obvious fact is that the events of the little horn and its boastful words are all over before the appearance of Jesus when he came to earth. How can this be the RCC which came into existence after Jesus came? I would like the 3 (wise?) men of the wmscog to answer this. This is a challenge to the wmscog.

 

 I have a question.. After reading this and reading Luke 1 it appears to me that the little horn is Jesus.

Dan 7:9 says eyes like a human [Heb 2:17 Christ was made human].. clothes as white as snow [Matt 17:2 white clothes].. hair as white as wool [Rev 1:14 white hair like wool].. Dan 7:10 says thousands upon thousands stood before him [Rev 5:11 says the same]..

Keep reading with Jesus in mind and it all makes sense. But the WMSCOG says the little horn is the Catholic church. Read Luke 1:69. It says a horn was raised up for salvation for us. Dan 7:8 says a horn came up among the 10 then it continues to describe Jesus. Jesus is the beast?

[emil]

YoMomma SoFat wrote:

 

 I have a question.. After reading this and reading Luke 1 it appears to me that the little horn is Jesus.

Dan 7:9 says eyes like a human [Heb 2:17 Christ was made human].. clothes as white as snow [Matt 17:2 white clothes].. hair as white as wool [Rev 1:14 white hair like wool].. Dan 7:10 says thousands upon thousands stood before him [Rev 5:11 says the same]..

Keep reading with Jesus in mind and it all makes sense. But the WMSCOG says the little horn is the Catholic church. Read Luke 1:69. It says a horn was raised up for salvation for us. Dan 7:8 says a horn came up among the 10 then it continues to describe Jesus. Jesus is the beast?

I think you have mixed the descriptions of the characters of Daniel a bit. The horn comes in in verse 8. The one described in verse 9 is "the one ancient of days" and not the little horn. Later on, in verse 13 you have "the son of man" appearing. Read Daniel 7 carefully and you will see 3 distinct characters. The little horn is most definitely not Jesus.

[Love'n Honey]

Ok, thanks. I see what I did. I skipped over "the Ancient of Days" as I read v9. Because I did that, I assumed the subject described in v9 was the horn in v8 as done in the English language. Thanks.. I was REALLY confused. I was like… How can Jesus be the both the Saviour AND the beast? lol =)

[Cephas' Brother]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDB59F2D746F648CF 

This guy does a great impartial breakdown of the book of revelation. Really, really interesting book.