- Topic
Emil this is for you…
I just wanted to begin this thread to start the discussion on the WMSCOG's teaching that the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) is the beast spoken of in Daniel chapters 2 & 7 and Revelation chapters 13 & 17. It startes off:
Daniel 7:25
25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.
Atlas Shrugged wrote:
you did not answer them. you tried to sweep them under the rug.
Here is what I said:
emil wrote:
Some individual priests gone bad does not make the RCC evil. There have been bad priests and even bishops. In the past there have even been bad popes. But that does not make the church evil.
emil wrote:
The evil individuals in the RCC are not exclusive to the RCC. They are a reflection of how evil society as a whole has become. Such individuals are everywhere, in every church, in every non-church.
Atlas Shrugged wrote:
Lets take a look at what you said about what make an evil church…
What makes a church evil is evil teachings and doctrines.
Its was doctrine and teaching of the RCC to sell indulgences (evil) It was doctrine and teaching to murder people in the name of "god" (evil) This alone is enough teaching and doctine to show the Catholic Church is evil. It is still doctrine and teaching of the Catholic church to worship idols (evil) There is so much idol worship in the Catholic church. Catholics bow to crosses paintings and statues. Evil..
It was not and has never been the church doctrine to sell indulgences. Regarding murdering in the name of God, one has to first separate fact from fiction. Then, one must understand the normal cultural situation in those times. The bulk of the killings took place because feudal warlords used the church to further their own political and feudal gains. Read neutral history.
Then there were wars which were caused by the very realistic perception that Islam, as well as heretical sects, were forcing Christians to convert to their beliefs.
Catholics do not worship idols. I can't force you to believe but I am putting the facts before you.
Finally, what is your basis for the charge about worshiping Lucifer? Is it because Smurf said it? If we use that reason, there are many things Smurf has said about your church. Do you accept it all?
Very nice! But no, but i like that logic. Since i believe the Catholic Church is evil, the god they worship must be the evil one, Lucifer.
You are free to believe what you want.
It is time we got back on track. Show us your evidence about the RCC being the beast. All you have shown are conjectures.
Genny has already shown you how you guys are wrong on the 10 kingdoms history. I have shown how you guys are wrong on Dan 7. Can you refute any of it?
I’d like to add something about the molestation proportionately they abuse less compared to nonpriests
Also the men with the highest molestation proportional to its group issue teachers. Guess schools worship Satan
Google "Duplessis Orphans".
The Catholic Church is the most evil organization on the planet (just look at the pictures of the pope).
You are still avoiding the point. Show proof how the RCC fits the interpretation.
Given the centuries, nay millenia, of history and the billions of adherants, such things, though admittedly bad, are not unusual.
The photgraphs of the pope to prove he is evil is a low even by wmscog standards. One can take photographs of any public figure who gets photographed repeatedly and you can find plenty that show them in poor light.
emil wrote:
The evil individuals in the RCC are not exclusive to the RCC. They are a reflection of how evil society as a whole has become. Such individuals are everywhere, in every church, in every non-church.
It was not and has never been the church doctrine to sell indulgences. Regarding murdering in the name of God, one has to first separate fact from fiction. Then, one must understand the normal cultural situation in those times. The bulk of the killings took place because feudal warlords used the church to further their own political and feudal gains. Read neutral history.
Then there were wars which were caused by the very realistic perception that Islam, as well as heretical sects, were forcing Christians to convert to their beliefs.
Catholics do not worship idols. I can't force you to believe but I am putting the facts before you.
Finally, what is your basis for the charge about worshiping Lucifer? Is it because Smurf said it? If we use that reason, there are many things Smurf has said about your church. Do you accept it all?
Very nice! But no, but i like that logic. Since i believe the Catholic Church is evil, the god they worship must be the evil one, Lucifer.
You are free to believe what you want.
it cant be a reflection of how evil society has become because the catholic chruch has always been doing evil things. It's not somthing new.
You can continue to make excuses as to why it was ok for the Catholic Church to to murder people in the name of "god", i understand you have a lot of pride in the catholic chruch. Maybe you need some time away from it to examine it for what it really is. A cult! You should read neutral history. The stuff you are saying about seperating fact from fiction is the typical catholic response. The fact is, is that thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people were murdered by the catholic chruch.
And catholics do worship idols. Google "catholics worshiping idols", click on images, and look at them doing it. It's right there for everyone to see. Why do catholics try to say they dont worship idols, when everyone who looks at your chruch can plainly see that you do.
Are you going to get to the point of this thread about how you can prove your interpretation?
If you can't then just say so.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_EN57vmamkCI/SShD3QnmccI/AAAAAAAACto/XYdvk0tRkvo/s640/100_1520.JPG
What are they doing?
http://bfhu.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/jpii-olfatima1.jpg
What is he doing?
Technically that's Isis-worship. You're guilty of worshipping the "heavenly mother" too though.
But if emil bothered to look at the video I linked we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Honouring the mother of God is not the same as worship. Looking at a photograph and judging a person's heart is great evidence. Such kind of processions happen all the time in our country. They honour all kinds of public figures too. Does not equate to worship at all. On the other hand, it is the wmscog that admittedly worships Zahng.
But I can see that the guys from the wmscog are evading the point which they cannot answer, filling this thread instead with propaganda.
Smurf, you made a statement that the RCC worships Lucifer. I take exceptuion to that. I do not know if the video you linked was related to your statement but the other things you said had no connection.
It is far more than honuring. You pray to her. you believe that at the name of mary, every knee should bow. Thats far more than honor, thats worship. If you must bow to Mary, that means you worship her.
You might want to read the catechism in regard to the first commandment
@Atlas: Why has my son said he cannot step foot into any other church at any time? Not even for a wedding or a funeral, or any other reason? We are not Catholic, so that isn't it. If Catholicism is evil, then what is the reason he can't go to ANY OTHER CHURCH, even for a funeral, such as his Grandmother's services? You know, it would break her heart to know that he is someone she can't depend upon to carry her to her final resting place. She doesn't know yet that he has told me he can't come into the church for any reason.
Yet I can walk into your church and be polite to all, even though I don't believe in your doctrine one bit and never will. Still, I know God knows where my heart is. He knows I am not worshipping a woman. I simply try to give common courtesy to those in the church when I see them. Why is your group so afraid to let my son do the same? My question is, is your church actually calling all other churches evil, not just the Catholic Church? If not, then why can't he step into the others for at least one hour so that he can participate in our family's goodbye to someone he personally adores? Would you really deprive him of something he will regret so sorely missing, something that he cannot get back?
From an anthropological standpoint, evidence is abundant that humans are social animals that became the dominant species (we) are because of our social nature, family being the primary social structure, and a belief in higher power/deity/God.
The game is simple. Replace family and replace God. Destroy all other forms of religion and one has a monopoly on a very intimate part of the brain.
Regarding the video which shows the Catholic church 'worshipping Lucifer'…
This problem of misunderstanding is related to the use of "morning star" in both Isaiah 14:12 (where is refers to Satan) and Revelation 22:16 (where it refers to Jesus). If you are careless with 'mated verses' like the wmscog, you could come to believe that Jesus is Satan because of this, but we know that is not so.
The Catholic Church uses Latin a lot. "Lucifer" is a Latin word that comes from luci- (light) and -fer (that which carries). "Lucifer" has become a common name for Satan, but that's not really what the word means.
This is a problem of misunderstanding the Latin language, not of the Catholic Church 'worshipping Lucifer' because they used the word in their song.
This kind of like when my family takes a drive and one child says "I see a beaver dam," and the other child says, "Mom, he's swearing!"
(By the way, I am not Catholic.)
@Disturbed: Thank you for your explanation. I figured as such. It's just that I never get the explanation from the wms as to what specifically the problem is with the other churches. They go on and on about how evil the Catholic Church is (which I don't believe is true at all) but never really go into why they can't step into the other churches. I feel it is because they really believe the same about all churches other than their own, and it's just another control thing. But they offer no explanation other than it is forbidden to members. I mean, they can offer the Saturday-Sunday explanation up, worshipping the Sun God, etc., (which is bull) but what if the person's funeral is on another day? Why can't they go in then? I am so thankful not to have the restrictions they have so that I can see for myself how things really are.Sorry, when exactly did the King of Babylon fall from heaven?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.