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Emil this is for you…
I just wanted to begin this thread to start the discussion on the WMSCOG's teaching that the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) is the beast spoken of in Daniel chapters 2 & 7 and Revelation chapters 13 & 17. It startes off:
Daniel 7:25
25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.
That’s anochronistic
No. WMSCOG is the beast in Daniel & Revelations. That's my prophecy.
It fits in perfectly with them if you really think about it.
It doesn’t fit unless they have a very long time left
Also they have very few deceived and have no control of currency
First of all in all the chapters of Daniel the angel speaking to him gives explicit instructions for how many years each individual event will take "to reach completion".
Even if you were to criticize the precision of our math, it is still an event which must happen either: while Daniel was still alive (literal days) OR before Christ (days = years), during the time of the roman empire ("time" tranlated into years -> count days and then consider those days as years) lasting up to the time when the pope was technically dethroned and "arrested" during the french revolution.
Even if you cannot get the exact numbers right, you cannot ignore the time periods in general.
Second of all.
The Beast is not a new teaching, many churches and many people have already claimed that the Catholic church fits the description for the Beast long before the WMSCOG was founded.
We didn't do anything new, we just proved it for those who believe in the bible.
But the reason why they do not hear, is that they do not belong to God. It is a pity. I have prayed for you.
I hope no one is decieved or falls away to your weak and very assumptuous arguments.
144000 wrote:
We didn't do anything new, we just proved it for those who believe in the bible.
The proof you use includes inaccurate historical facts.
No, it doesn't.
But even for people who cannot see the connections which are precise, you still cannot deny the relative time periods. But go ahead, claim a different time period. Or better yet, claim that it never happened. Its not like Satan lead the whole world astray or anything.
Keep arguing it more. Go back to the mainstream churches since you enjoy their interpretations so much. Take the broad path and the wide gate, parrot the teachings of all the different "mother" churches. You know where that path leads, and I have warned you.
@Disturbed – thank you for resurrecting this. FTOS had previously run away from the challenges to this teaching which Genny and I had presented. Genny challenged it from the point of view of the historical inaccuracies of the idea of the 10 kingdoms. I had challenged it from the PoV of the historical accuracy of the sequence in daniel 7. Since we now have this new thread I will briefly repeat my argument. This argument is specifically to challenge the WMSCOG teaching and not others before that since we are here to examine the WMSCOG.Daniel 7 describes a vision that ends with verse 14. Verse 15 onwards is a interpretation of the vision. The simple truth of the vision is that the little horn appears in verse 8 and its actions continue until the appearance of the son of man in verse 13. It is one continuous narration. The obvious fact is that the events of the little horn and its boastful words are all over before the appearance of Jesus when he came to earth. How can this be the RCC which came into existence after Jesus came? I would like the 3 (wise?) men of the wmscog to answer this. This is a challenge to the wmscog.
genny wrote:
144000 wrote:
We didn't do anything new, we just proved it for those who believe in the bible.
The proof you use includes inaccurate historical facts.
144000 wrote:
No, it doesn't.
Then why does the wmscog teach that the Ostrogoths were "destroyed by the Papacy" in 538, when they were not destroyed until 553? (552, if you are generous with the dating, but definitely not 538)
Why does the wmscog teach that the Ostrogoths were the last of 3 kingdoms destroyed, when by 538 (wmscog's date) there were already 4 other kingdoms conquered, not counting the Ostrogoths? (They neglect that 2 other kingdoms were conquered.)
Why does the wmscog teach that the Lombards were one of the 10 kingdoms when they did not even have a kingdom in the right area until about 570, after the supposed 3 out of 10 kingdoms were conquered?
Why does the wmscog teach that the 3 kingdoms were destroyed because they would not conform to Catholicism and the 7 kingdoms survived because they did conform, yet some remained Arian and were not conquered while others were conquered after they converted (and the 3 and 7 numbers are not correct anyway)?
I think that's enough for now. There is already another thread about this, but we can pick it up here, if the Disturbed thinks it fits with her original topic.
144000 wrote:
First of all in all the chapters of Daniel the angel speaking to him gives explicit instructions for how many years each individual event will take "to reach completion".
Even if you were to criticize the precision of our math, it is still an event which must happen either: while Daniel was still alive (literal days) OR before Christ (days = years), during the time of the roman empire ("time" tranlated into years -> count days and then consider those days as years) lasting up to the time when the pope was technically dethroned and "arrested" during the french revolution.
Even if you cannot get the exact numbers right, you cannot ignore the time periods in general.
I have already shown through Dan 7 that the pope cannot be a part of your equation because the little horn comes into being well before Chirst's appearance. That one fact makes all your interpretation wrong.
Second of all.
The Beast is not a new teaching, many churches and many people have already claimed that the Catholic church fits the description for the Beast long before the WMSCOG was founded.
We didn't do anything new, we just proved it for those who believe in the bible.
But the reason why they do not hear, is that they do not belong to God. It is a pity. I have prayed for you.
I hope no one is decieved or falls away to your weak and very assumptuous arguments.
All the claims mean nothing without proper evidence. The evidence is lacking. Can you point to the sources used in those claims? You have just used claims that suited you without verifying them. That is where you guys make assumptions while blaming others for doing so. You have not proved anything. Only made unsustainable claims.
There is also one more thing implicit in the wmscog teaching regarding the beast. It is the support of Arianism. I would like to ask 144000 whether he or the wmscog supports the doctrine of Arius over the mainstream Christian doctrine?
I wonder if 144000 will give an unequivocal answer.
144000 wrote:
Second of all.
The Beast is not a new teaching, many churches and many people have already claimed that the Catholic church fits the description for the Beast long before the WMSCOG was founded.
And it was an guano crazy teaching long before the WMSCOG was founded
You also lie in the study when you claim the papal mitre is jeweled with the words Vicarius Filii Dei which is on no mitre or tiara or anything of any sort and further more has never been officially a title of the Pope.
Bad history and resorting to lies, that's a bit damning IMO
Disturbed wrote:
This teaching comes from the SDA church which Ahn was a member for 16 years. Also Jehovah Witness also preach something similar in regards to the book of Daniel.
Yes, it's not unique to the wmscog, but it is still historically wrong no matter who is preaching it.
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