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I kind of understand not celebrating some of the holidays(alot of them are man made traditions) but the thing I dont understand is how extreme members take it. My husband wont even eat candy if its out of a bag with Christmas decor on it. He wont even say Christmas. He says God Bless You if someone says Merry Christmas to him…so annoying I could scream. Also NOT eating food that has been prayed over in Jesus name is so horrible to me!! Also he took down all the crosses in the house. I still have yet to see a verse in the Bible that says crosses are against God….I cant wrap my brain around it. Where in the Bible are the prayer times? I think they are 2:30 and 7 oclock…my husband has an alarm on his phone?! Just curious about some of these topics.
As far as the cross issue. I, personally, don’t really have one. This doesn’t mean I believe something is wrong with it. I hold nothing against it if it helps one feel connected. I just won’t kneel before it. That’s just me.
The history of the cross and the crucifix is a long one. Constantine, Roman emperor of the early 300s, dreamt of a cross and was told ” in this sign you will conquer.” He ordered the sign of the cross to be put on all the soldiers’ shield, and then won the battle by which he became emperor of Rome. Although he wasn’t Christian, he liberated the church, making Christianity a legal religion in the empire, and brought an end to the persecution of Christians.
Since then, the cross has been the universal symbol for Catholicism. There are some 400 varieties in use. Sometime in the Middle Ages, the body of Jesus was affixed to the cross and the image became known as a crucifix. It has become one of the most easily recognises symbols of the Catholic religion.
The Protestant world prefer plain crosses, while Catholics prefer the crucifix. For Many non-Catholics, the image of Jesus’ crucified body appear harsh. Some feel it’s like crucifying him over and over. Catholics on the other hand, prefer the crucifix to the plain cross because of the emotions it evokes – it helps them feel more connected to Jesus as human. Some Catholics also feel that the cross without Christ tends to become an idea rather than a real-life event that happened to a human man who was also the Son of God.
This is my research on the cross issue. I personally don’t have a problem with either one of them, but just prefer not to have one. However, I don’t kneel before one but that’s just me.
Some people hold to these veses as the reason they don’t keep crosses and statues of biblical figures. I feel if you dont bow down before them that it may not be bad if you had them. I may be wrong about that. Just a guess. Exodus 20: 4 “You shall not make for yourself [c]an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Jesus 1 says, "are you so dull? Can you not see that it is not what you put into your body that defiles you?"
Jesus 2 followers subsequently don't subscribe to this. They would rather Paul be their example, because it is somehow more applicable – I would argue it substantiates their position to authority in a continual deferral to it. Just like in the Milgram experiment, in order to escape this dynamic one must admit one was wrong. Very hard to do, as explained by Milgram himself.
Not debating the cross. This is my preference. To each his own in the matter.
I have put all my sermon notes away but prayer times are 10am & 2:30pm. I believe they change on Passover. I was taught prayer times from the old & new testaments. Daniel kept prayer times as well as some of the apostles in Acts. Sorry I wasn’t more helpful. I’m trying to free my mind of these things right now.
As far as holidays the church’s current position is for members to spend time with their families which is probably just another damage control method because they’re being accused of breaking up families. They say its ok to have holiday meals with your family but don’t let them pray over your food. The church wants its members to pray in ahn’s name not Jesus (which is strange since even ahn prayed in Jesus name)
When I was a member I asked my family not to buy me Xmas gifts but if they just had to please refrain from wrapping it in “that” paper. My family was ok with it. I realize now that I alienated myself from them, especially during holidays because I didn’t want them to have any wrong ideas that I was celebrating with them. It’s going to take a lot of work to change my thought process.
Questioninginla wrote:
Jesus 1 says, "are you so dull? Can you not see that it is not what you put into your body that defiles you?"
Jesus 2 followers subsequently don't subscribe to this. They would rather Paul be their example, because it is somehow more applicable – I would argue it substantiates their position to authority in a continual deferral to it. Just like in the Milgram experiment, in order to escape this dynamic one must admit one was wrong. Very hard to do, as explained by Milgram himself.
Paul's opinion on this is not so black and white. He gave guidelines about times when it was OK and when it wasn't.
crosses as idols is far from unique to wmscog
Prayer times are the third14 and ninth hour starting at sunrise figuring 12 even segments sunrise to sundry as was historically the method for time keeping wmscog averages this to 10 and 2:30 in the winter and 9 and 3 in the summer
not eating over food prayed to under any name but ahnsahnghong is to avoid food sacrifices to idols remember we pray to the “wrong jesus”
The evening prayer time 7:30 winter 8 summer is about mother misusing zechariah 14
Simon wrote:
crosses as idols is far from unique to wmscog
I agree Simon. However, my friend in the wmscog attacked the cross with a kind of unusual ferocity in her writings to me. It was not just the idea of a cross as an idol. I always assumed that the writings were not her own but something given her by her pastor.
Yeah wmscog is zealous
And it's not just the cross. It's anything that is worshipped. I was told that I treated my daughter as an idol.
An idol was anything that came between you spending time in the church, working for the church, or giving money to the church. In my opinion, the wms screws up any holiday that you would spend with your family by labeling it as pagan or man made tradition. Even mother's day and father's day are bad. Then they say that you are celebrating any given holiday because you could be spending time with your family any other day but the fact that you choose to spend time with them on that day is celebrating it. But you don't spend time with your family on other days either because you are too busy in the church.
Emily wrote:
An idol was anything that came between you spending time in the church, working for the church, or giving money to the church. In my opinion, the wms screws up any holiday that you would spend with your family by labeling it as pagan or man made tradition. Even mother's day and father's day are bad. Then they say that you are celebrating any given holiday because you could be spending time with your family any other day but the fact that you choose to spend time with them on that day is celebrating it. But you don't spend time with your family on other days either because you are too busy in the church.
That's exactly true! Lol.
That’s far from my experience
Simon wrote:
That's far from my experience
Lol, why am I not surprised 😛
Simon, are you sure you were in the wmscog? Maybe you were mistaken! LOL!
LOL!
ILJC2013 wrote:
Also NOT eating food that has been prayed over in Jesus name is so horrible to me!!
So the wmscog won't pray over food they are about to eat??
ILJC2013 wrote:
Also he took down all the crosses in the house. I still have yet to see a verse in the Bible that says crosses are against God….I cant wrap my brain around it.
I'm afraid the WMS are right on this one.
As long as you don't pray infront of it like some people pray to saints or to Mary… should be fine.
Assuming a cross has any supernatural power is an insult to God. Also, casting out demons with crosses is fiction.
If the Holy spirit posesses the object , that's another thing. But even in this case the power comes from God and never from the object itself. Otherwise it's just witchcraft.
Fantastic statement, Smurf. I so agree. Nodding my head on that statement right there, mate.
I don’t know about how right Wmscog are when it comes to the cross issue. Joel Ostend doesn’t have crosses in his church either but I’m not a fan of his at all. The only pastor I like is Charles Stanley and he certainly believes in the cross being displayed, though I choose not to.
The cross is a symbol to "some" people and to "some" people it is a very important and sacred "symbol" which is probably why ILC2013 was shocked to to see them all removed. I have read Smurf's statement 4 times and he's not wrong, he's right technically. Maybe i'm getting a little imune or thick skinned to some of the things that are said here but ILC2013 wrote 'I can't wrap my brain around it" to tell her the "WMS is right on this one" and then throwing in the term "witchcraft" must have been hard for her to hear. I said i don't disagree with the facts in smurf's statement I just think we can be a little more sensitive to people's feelings especially people who haven't been here that long and are still in the OMG, i can't believe this phase.
I carry rosary beads in my pocket all the time and if confronted by a demon or satan i'm surely not going to point the cross at him in the hope that he's going to run away from it…….I'll throw holy water on him so he burns! ahahaha. just be sensitive to the new guys who don't have a Phd in the bible and im not trying to say you said anything intentionally to hurt someone
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