[UntouchableJ]

So I wanted to Start this, after a powerful comversation with my wife, who holds a PhD. Straight to the point, WMS’ powerful wording amd influence, forces a person into what is called, “Cognitive Dissonance”. Here is a definition of it;

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Basically, through suggestive influence, it forces a person into undo mental stress and influence, evem though it conflicts with them morally, personally and within their own values. It also touches on our HUMAN strivimg to have internal consistency. This explains why a person would choose the church over family

Example; Jody has a great relationship with her twin brother. When Jody attempted to preach to her brother, he declined. Since. Wms instilled detrimental ideals about family who refuse the doctrine, Jody now associates her brother with those ideals (Apostate, Trouble Maker etc).

So Jody when facing this, “Internal Inconsistency” psychologically (as with ALL of us) will try to find or even make balance. That is why members in WMS leave Schools, Family and careers behind. They will even stay when the doctrine becomed inconsistent. Coupled with the leaders denying failed prophecies, and ostracizing members who don’t produce, the literally master forcing people into it.

Like the story of the fox who saw grapes hanging from a tree. The fox no matter how hard he tried couldnt reach the grapes. So after a while, he leaves them, but also tells himself, “They were probably rotten and sour anyway”.

Also the greater the Magnitude of the factors, the greater the dissonance. The WMS literally indoctrinates members to put necessities vs Spirituality;

Family vs Spirituality(Pleasing God, Heaven)

Personal Goals vs Spirituality

[UntouchableJ]

[UntouchableJ]

When we are in Cognitive Dissonance, we will also negate our own personal strength And reasoning. Members who heard 2012 prophecy and questioned leadership when it failed may have been told, “Bredder, when did we ever say dat!! YOU MISUNDERSTOOD!” They then side with the WMS because they have a major mental stress, and would rather stay with a lie.

[UntouchableJ]

Bumped due to spam

[Mayor and Mike]

"Bredder, when did we ever say dat?" I call it displacement. I never heard of the term cognitive dissonance, let me look it up.

They "would rather stay with a lie?" that could be spiritually, emotionally damaging. There a bible verse says some people will make a lie their refuge, falsehood their hiding place Isa 28:15

[Joshua]

UntouchableJ, we have some of the same friends. I know who you and your wife are and I am very happy that you are here fighting the good fight with us. The two of you have the opportunity to be a very powerful force because of your past involvement and your degree of study. Thank you and please thank your wife for me.

[UntouchableJ]

Bumped

[JohnFoutraged]

hmm interesting. WMSCOG may be changing tactics to encourage more families to come. Mama Z gotta buy a new pair of shoes!

[UntouchableJ]

Bump

[Brian Taylor]

This is interesting. I definitely feel that cognitive dissonance is perhaps the root cause in cult members developing split personalities. With this, it would also make sense that members are told repeatedly and in many different ways that we can't trust our own critical thinking. The way the WMS worded it was " bredder …XYZ might be very good according to human wisdom, but not according to God's wisdom" and then with this it becomes easier make members reneg with the leadership about failed prophecies. It all becomes an inward conflict from there. so yeah, I agree totally.

[UntouchableJ]

@Brian And the subtleness is powerful. Coupled with the tactic of the open rebuke or kicking a member out (especially a newly baptized member) for trivial thing, instills some fear. And then, of the person leaves, the Overseer ALWAYS blames the member.

“See, I yell at bredder Brian for his arrogance..and he leaves zion. He would have fallen away anyway”

[Azula]

@ Untouchabel J. You're right in saying that Cognitive Dissonance is a key psychological compnent in the cult. Also this cult has an abusive spiritual practice of a covert narcissist. Covert because it's hidden and narcissitic because they manipulate and deceive the members as means of controlling every aspect of their lives. Ironically the ones who control them are usually the leaders. If you look at carefully you can see just how much control they have: from what the members eat, what music they listen to and most importantly with whom to associate.

I too can remember many teachings and prophecies which I saw that made no sense.

[UntouchableJ]

@Azula It was beyond perplexing how they justified the lower tricks in controlling dress and actions. I was told by other members that the requirment for male members wearing suits was linked to “going to the heavenly wedding banquet with the proper clothes”.

I was told that male members were coerced into getting parts because, “Father had a part”(notice Joh Powers cheesy comb over part in the Today show interview?). I dont know what sisters are/were told but I would see new sisters who started out being into fashion, wearing baggy slacks, flats and looking like old secretaries.

[Momsix828]

I have noticed this change in my children. My son dresses just like John P. In the video. When I showed the video to our family they all agreed. He wears the same “tie clip”. My beautiful daughter used to be full of color, bright lipstick and long flowing hair. Now it’s slicked back all the time and she looks pale and sickly. (Which could be due to all the blood drives) She used to wear the latest fashion now not so. I had to comment UntouchableJ because that’s exactly what she looks like now. An old secretary, black flats, long loose skirts,shawls, hair slicked back, no face color. She even bought the black horn rimmed glasses. This makes my stomach sick. We have discussed this and she assures me it’s her choice. These things really drive parents crazy.

[Momsix828]

And what’s up with the fake Asian accent? They both do that now.

[Elaine]

I thought the sisters would follow mother Zhang's fashion cause when my little one asked my bro as to why God wears a lipstick and he told her she is a modern God. Does that mean she has a tattoo too …. con artist pretending to be god enjoying life and ruining the life of others.

Now she no more carries the bag of potatoes but it is transported in her limo LOL

[Azula]

@Momsix and Elaine The need for controlling their haircuts, their clothes  etc… is all about the need to feed the ego of which ever leader. As we've established the means of controlling the members/ teachings differs by region. I can remember a very powerful mind control technique used by the Koreans on me.

They would begin with the line that says, "Head office says…" or "Heavenly mother says…" and it would usually be targeted at behaviours that the leader didn't like. This is an example of what they would say, " Heavenly mother says [Head office] you mustn't eat pizza, use your money more contrusctively for the gospel. Wear cheap clothes and sacrifice just like mother an' father did. Even though they are god they sacrifice so much for our salvation by eating a bowl of soup or fasting even four days without meal."

You cannot imagine the amount of guilt and shame that you're made to feel. And because of the guilt you comply or risk losing blessings-whatever that means.

[Brian Taylor]

Azula wrote:

@Momsix and Elaine The need for controlling their haircuts, their clothes  etc… is all about the need to feed the ego of which ever leader. As we've established the means of controlling the members/ teachings differs by region. I can remember a very powerful mind control technique used by the Koreans on me.

They would begin with the line that says, "Head office says…" or "Heavenly mother says…" and it would usually be targeted at behaviours that the leader didn't like. This is an example of what they would say, " Heavenly mother says [Head office] you mustn't eat pizza, use your money more contrusctively for the gospel. Wear cheap clothes and sacrifice just like mother an' father did. Even though they are god they sacrifice so much for our salvation by eating a bowl of soup or fasting even four days without meal."

You cannot imagine the amount of guilt and shame that you're made to feel. And because of the guilt you comply or risk losing blessings-whatever that means.

HAH! This anecdote brings back so many memories. "mother said" often times seemed like the overseer's greatest weapon.

[UntouchableJ]

The “Elohim said” trick was an unquestionable mind trick, and is Soooo dangerous. They would also use it to control peoples intent. There were many times (especially with new members) where they wanted to give. A member could show up with a large pizza, to feed the preaching assembly team. Sometimes that member is turned away,”Bredder…next time, ask the Overseer what we need. Mother said we must serve correctly”. That fall right in line with Azula’s statement about ego. I know of a member whos mom, a Dominican Woman, gave a 10lb bag of rice unannounced. The overseer made negative comments about the situation. If the leaders can’t be the one to say how money is spent, the get rude and use a scripture to justify things.

[Joshua]

UntouchableJ wrote:

The "Elohim said" trick was an unquestionable mind trick, and is Soooo dangerous. They would also use it to control peoples intent. There were many times (especially with new members) where they wanted to give. A member could show up with a large pizza, to feed the preaching assembly team. Sometimes that member is turned away,"Bredder…next time, ask the Overseer what we need. Mother said we must serve correctly". That fall right in line with Azula's statement about ego. I know of a member whos mom, a Dominican Woman, gave a 10lb bag of rice unannounced. The overseer made negative comments about the situation. If the leaders can't be the one to say how money is spent, the get rude and use a scripture to justify things.

 That's just pathetic! This overseer needs some serious correction!

[Mayor and Mike]

It's funny that it's exactly the same in my "zion." The overseer is in control. It seemed like your own thinking is not allowed. 

[Azula]

UntouchableJ wrote:

The "Elohim said" trick was an unquestionable mind trick, …

That is just typical of narcissitic behaviour when you want to exercise total control over people simply because you want to use people to feed your ego that is you wanna control HOW they can further your personal agenda. People end up becoming a means and really no different than machinery or animals because it's a matter of what can they do for me which is typical of a narcissit as most leaders are. 

UntouchableJ wrote:

a Dominican Woman, gave a 10lb bag of rice unannounced. The overseer made negative comments about the situation. If the leaders can't be the one to say how money is spent, the[y] get rude and use a scripture to justify things.

I can remember reading the bible about how people brought offerings but were never turned away. This was a red flag for me because the Jesus I was reading about in the bible was looking very different than the one I was experiencing. That's why reading the bible by yourself especially the teachings of Jesus is so important. This cult has replaced the teachings of Jesus with the teachings of mama z.

I can remember a scripture in John 6:27-36 when Jesus teaches us to love our enemies, “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.

“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

But this cult sues their enemies! And this is suposed to be the 2CC.