Pseudoscience?

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    Topic
  • #7498
    Emily
    Participant

    Just read this article today that was posted on a Canadian site.  This statement stood out…"The fact that there is no biological necessity for physical life to be given by mothers caused Deacon August Kruesi to wonder: what was God’s will in creating the human life system in this way?"

    http://life.nationalpost.com/2013/11/12/god-the-mother-in-the-world-mission-society-church-of-god/

     

    What does he mean by "no biological necessity"?  What does he mean by "physical life to be given"?  The last time I checked, men can't give birth because they lack a uterus among other things.  

    The point the speakers and or wms seem to try to make, albeit unclearly, is that because a mother is necessary to reproduce, then there must be a mother god.  They have not proven that at all in their article.  Of course this only applies to creatures that require a mother and father to reproduce.  What do the living organisms that do not require a male and female to reproduce "prove"?    

    Sounds like a bunch of pseudoscience to me.

    What do you guys think?

  • #65299

    Simon
    Participant

    there are certainly creatures that don't require mothers to reproduce. That doesn't mean men are reproducing it is merely asexual rerproduction.

    #65300

    fedupmom
    Participant

    I was just about to post this link.and then saw you beat me to it Emily…good job, I’m glad others are seeing it! My husband came across it today. It is a newspaper published in the Toronto area.

    #65301

    genny
    Participant

    A long article that looks impressive at first glance, but…

    I have the same question as you Emily–what about those living things that reproduce asexually?  It talks about all living things having a mother and father at least twice–in the first photo and later with "shown through all creatures on Earth that require both male and female to reproduce"–but that totally ignores the creatures that reproduce by themselves.

    The author seems to make the leap from "scientists have so far failed to discover the origin of life on Earth, or in space, while the Bible offers a clear answer" to "the existence of both a female Creator, and a male Creator" instead of the more simple of just "there is a creator God."

    What does he mean by "no biological necessity"?  What does he mean by "physical life to be given"?  The last time I checked, men can't give birth because they lack a uterus among other things. 

    Exactly, Emily!  For living beings that do have a mother and father there certainly is a necessity for a mother!

    I noticed the part about all their good deeds and rewards, "The Church of God has received about 1,000 awards for its volunteer efforts in nations around the world and even received the prestigious President’s Call to Service Award from the U.S. in 2011"

    Either the members still don't understand how the President's award works (maybe their leaders haven't explained it and they haven't checked it out for themselves)… or they just don't care.

    And the guy who wonders, "Jesus was a Jew, and then we make this big leap to Catholic. What happened in the middle?"

    Guess he hasn't read much about the growth and history of the church?

    "Mr. Jacques said he was grateful to find a church that is based “purely on the word of God,”" — That's the wmscog interpretation of "purely on the word of God."

    There's more in that article that makes me shake my head, but that's enough for now…  Thanks for finding it, Emily.

    #65302

    Ms Freedom
    Participant

    Not that I believe it, but let's just say there could be a heavenly father AND mother. The father (according to the Bible) is a spirit, not a living human being. According to WMSCOG, the mother god is a woman in the flesh living in South Korea. How do the scientists "prove" that Zang is the god they are referring to? What will they say when she dies and NOTHING happens? She has passed on her "mitochondria" to other humans (the children she gave birth to by an earthly human). Does that mean they are gods? Sorry Mr. Kruesi! Your science proves nothing. You may be an intellegent man, but you are being deceived and sadly, you have been given a platform to assist the WMSCOG in deceiving others. 

    #65303

    emil
    Participant

    I haven't read the article yet but my friend in the wmscog used the same argument long ago about the necessity of a biological mother to prove the existence of mother god. To that I had pointed out there are creatures that reporduce through asexual reproduction.

    I had also pointed out that the bible has the short account of human creation followed by a more detailed account. The detailed account describes how only Adam was created first. Eve was created later as a helpmate and companion. Obviously this deflates the idea that male and female were created at once in the image of the male and female God.

    Besides, male and female are gender descriptions that are fundamentally linked to sexual reproduction. I don't see the bible saying God created humans through sexual reproduction. Why would God have to be a male entity and a female entity?

    #65304

    Cephas' Brother
    Participant

    Excuse me while I go bang my head against the wall until the drivel I just read leaks out of my ears…. 

    #65305

    reydelavoz
    Participant

    hey mother god has and always was a pagan attributed characteristics:

    Malachi 2:10“Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? 

    Matt 5:16), never a Mother (Mt.6:1,6,8-9,14,18,26,32 etc.). NOT once is a term or phrase “mother” used for God except by pagans

     

    Isa 43:10

    Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    "Therefore know this day, and consider it in your heart, that the LORD Himself is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other" (Deuteronomy 4:39

    #65306

    Questioninginla
    Participant

    Debating doctrine or doctrinal issues is equal a waste of time as attacking the leader.

    Jesus reminded us that by their fruit shall ye know them; i.e., by their actions.  Note that He said nothing of their doctrines.

    That being said, for those members currently looking to end the vicious cycle of questioning-all church/gung ho-questioning-gung ho-ad infinitum and not having a way to exit need to know that there are problems with the doctrine, so they can be assured that they will not burn in he// as the group has primed them, psychologically, to be fearful (which binds them to the group, reinforced by fear of ostracism and other cultic tenets of fear indoctrination).

    #65307

    sre
    Participant

     Tthis ThisI comAnd God uses the hormones oxytocin and dopamine to deeply embed an intense maternal love in the psychological makeup of women from the moment of conception in order to teach human beings about the undying love God the Mother has for mankind, the professor of psychology at America International College said.

    I COPIED AND PASTED THIS QUOTE ABOUT UNDYING LOVE FROM "MOTHER" FROM THE ARTICLE LISTED ABOVE!

    My question to women who are members, if this undying love was embeded in you," by a god the mother", why then does the wmscog not want you to reproduce and actually condone abortions? You leave your child in another members care, for ungodly hours of the night, while you go study, ignoring missed first steps or a lost tooth or even a first word because you were too busy focusing on a woman who has no use for you other than your number of membership and your wallet.  Or in fact, leaving your children, your famalies, your homes, for the wmscog?  It sounds to me that the only "person" she wants you to love is her and that sounds, well, very selfish and self centered. That is not mother love!!  Undying maternal love does not include leaving your famlies, deserting your children and in all actuality, killing an unborn child.  Can you not see you are constantly being lied to and the teachings are contradicting themselves constantly?  And why are they always seperating men and women from each other??  Go home to your famalies, they will welcome you with open arms and love you unconditionally.  That is what a mothers love is.

    Just read the bull s h i t article and had to post my feelings!

    #65308

    Stained
    Participant

    sre wrote:

     Tthis ThisI comAnd God uses the hormones oxytocin and dopamine to deeply embed an intense maternal love in the psychological makeup of women from the moment of conception in order to teach human beings about the undying love God the Mother has for mankind, the professor of psychology at America International College said.

    I COPIED AND PASTED THIS QUOTE ABOUT UNDYING LOVE FROM "MOTHER" FROM THE ARTICLE LISTED ABOVE!

    My question to women who are members, if this undying love was embeded in you," by a god the mother", why then does the wmscog not want you to reproduce and actually condone abortions? You leave your child in another members care, for ungodly hours of the night, while you go study, ignoring missed first steps or a lost tooth or even a first word because you were too busy focusing on a woman who has no use for you other than your number of membership and your wallet.  Or in fact, leaving your children, your famalies, your homes, for the wmscog?  It sounds to me that the only "person" she wants you to love is her and that sounds, well, very selfish and self centered. That is not mother love!!  Undying maternal love does not include leaving your famlies, deserting your children and in all actuality, killing an unborn child.  Can you not see you are constantly being lied to and the teachings are contradicting themselves constantly?  And why are they always seperating men and women from each other??  Go home to your famalies, they will welcome you with open arms and love you unconditionally.  That is what a mothers love is.

    Just read the b/u/l/l/s/h /i/ t article and had to post my feelings!

     Awesome post, just awesome.  Exactly Right.  This is raw emotion. 

    #65309

    Simon
    Participant

    Questioninginla wrote:

    Debating doctrine or doctrinal issues is equal a waste of time as attacking the leader.

    I never would've left without it

    #65310

    Harry
    Participant

    Simon wrote:

    Questioninginla wrote:

    Debating doctrine or doctrinal issues is equal a waste of time as attacking the leader.

    I never would've left without it

     

    Simon, with regard to most things……you are the exception not the norm. Not saying thats a bad thing, that's just the way it is.

    I'm not the norm either

    #65311

    Simon
    Participant

    but we have to play to ALL not the majority

    #65312

    MountainMom
    Participant

    @Simon: you say you would have never left without debating scripture and doctrine.  But it is my opinion you haven't really left intellectually if you are still playing the game their way.  It really is a waste of time, in my humble opinion, to debate moot points.  And the only points that aren't moot are the ones they don't want to deal with because they are straight forward and clear cut biblical knowledge.  To me it seems they only want to debate the ones open to interpretation. And of course, they want to control the interpretation. 

    But, like Harry says, you aren't the norm.  (not meant as an insult)  I just don't think we can play to all.     

    #65313

    Simon
    Participant

    we play to their hand if we don't discuss doctrine they say we are afraids to cuz we can't

    #65314

    Simon
    Participant

    and I would appreciate you not making snide accusations

    #65315

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Well, I'm sorry that you took it that way.  But a lot of people say that after they get out, they still react to the triggers and so forth.  And the experts all say don't debate doctrine or insult their "God" or their pastors.  I just know that if you focus on the details they want you to focus on, you miss the big picture.  That is actually like the "magic trick" manipulations that I just watched on the Discovery Channel.  They said that is how magicians deceive you into believing their trick.  They have you focus on the details and hide from you what is actually happening.  It seems to me that this describes very well what the wmscog is doing to the members. 

    Some people like to debate, though.  I guess it depends on what you are on this site for.  I'm not here to play along or to play at all, really.  It's too serious a topic.

    #65316

    Simon
    Participant

    except YOU are the one doing what they want because it's what they say you will do.

    #65317

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Well on that note, I have also said what they were going to do many times, and it happened right on cue.  If you asked one of the deacons or pastors in the church, I don't think they would say I am doing what they want.   Mainly because I am hanging in there with my son, trying to keep a relationship when they would so much rather have us separate.  That is the one thing they haven't been able to completely manage.  They harangue him constantly because he hasn't cut ties with me.  He hasn't been able to do that because he still loves me and our family too much.  They haven't been able to erase us because the love is still there.  Even though they have tried to erase who he was and is, he's still my son.

    #65318

    Simon
    Participant

    avoiding talking about doctrine they want

    supporting your son they don't

     

    it is possible to do both

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