- Topic
This is one thing ive never understood. Why were we forced to say the "prayer of our wishes" (Wmscog version of the 'lord's prayer') aloud? Not only was that akward but we had to recite it ALOUD IN KOREAN!!!! I never understood this… Does God not understand our thoughts/hearts? If not, would he not understand it in english???
Can someone shed some light to why we had to do this?
Also there was no "paranoia", I too was given the instruction to sit with someone. You know why? Not to spy on them, but to share my bible and new song book because we don't expect new members to pay for their own. Also, to make them feel comfortable during the tithe and offering and make sure that THEY DO NOT feel obligated to tithe until -they- ask -us- for the study about it.
We were also never told to avoid family members, in fact we were told the opposite, to invite them, and make them feel welcome, and to preach through our good example of love, compassion, and unity. To have unending patience, like God has with us, that is the actual instructions we give to lots of other members, myself included.
The pastor does not use people like pawns either, he is very active in intervening personally or speaking personally. Members from other churches tell me its the same with them.
Children disrupting service is handled very calmly in reality, I can only remember one or two times that the crying persisted so much that eventually they were told "please attend to your child dear sister, and you are welcome back whenever you have things under control" I mean it was very respectful, nobody blamed them and actively several members would get up and try to be helpful for them so they didn't feel burdened.
But slandering human people for what is very possibly some mistakes pales in comparison to the fact that this website is attacking a church which is teaching people to distinguish between real Feasts of God according to Christ, and man-made heresies.
Stop and think about that for a second.
We don't like Christmas because its a made-up fake holiday instituted by mortal men which, on every single level of its entire practice, gives honor to pagan gods and cultures.
Yet, because that offends us and we want to be respected when not keeping it -we- are labeled as the "family destroyers". Stop and think about who is being unreasonable for a moment.
We love Passover, Unleavened Bread, and Ressurection Day. Yet because we believe this will give us ETERNAL LIFE in HEAVAN and grant blessings upon our family, whom we love… It is -we- who are labeled as "family destroyers" because we want to spend all weekend doing that.
I post this because it pains me to think that people are seeing the slanderous lies in your website and being denied the blessings promised to them through the observance of feasts proclaimed by Christ, the Apostles, and their subsequent Disciples for hundreds of years.
You know, some things are debatable but this one isn’t. Those videos are real. Just because a racist falls in love with that which he dislikes doesn’t stop him from being a racist. Likewise, just because there are black missionary at wmscog, which is certainly true, doesn’t make Ron’s statement false. They said it and there are several people who can attest to it when push comes to shove. Ron spoke the truth. As for the Internet issue, they certainly imply mama Zhang says to stay off the net. There is no pleasure in lying on this Organization. It is mostly true, I assure you. It’s imperative we do our homework in everything we do in life.
Your last comment, last verse is actually the opposite. We are trying to save people from all the lies and deceit. Perhaps, you sincerely have know clue about your organization.
Okay, wms brother, I understand that you may have not experienced nor heard of some of the experiences that the video/s speak of. However, you can’t tell me, or convince me, that the doctrines and teachings of the wmscog doesn’t hurt families. I can tell you first hand that my son’s involvement has hurt many members of my family in one way or another and it is entirely due to the false teachings of this group, and the effects that have changed our loved one to making decisions in his life that never would have happened before becoming a part of this group!
"It is mostly true"
It is absolutely true in select few cases.
No one is disputing that Ron is a real person, nor whether or not his experiences were real.
What is suspect is his poor understanding of "protocall". I do not know how to -explain- how a "Missionary" knows less about our "protocall" than I do. While I will not go so far as to say that he is lying, I will say that I have never met -anyone- in our church, until perhaps today, that did not know that we're never supposed to baptize people unless they've been given the whole introduction up front.
Every Missionary except Ron understands this and is with the program, it has been this way for a minimum of 4 years prior to Ron leaving.
Instead of talking about fragile higher level studies, he attacks Ahn Sahng Hong's character with a beginner study: King David. Not only was Ahn-Sahn-Hong active during all 37 years, in one capacity or another; but its child's play compared to what a real Missionary could have said.
"you can't tell me, the doctrines and teachings of the wmscog doesn't hurt families."
Yes I can. See theres some brother and sisters in the WMS that aren't as patient with their families as we encourage them to be, and sometimes it is the truth that they get into arguments and pick the WMS over their family. But that is a very VERY rare exception and one that we ALWAYS police amongst our own.
The message we send to our members -every day-, in reality, is to be kind and patient, and comprimise, and set the best example possible for non-believing family members so that by our exemplary behaviour God's glory becomes apparant.
Let alone, would we even dare to tell them the opposite of that, to break up with family.
"it is entirely due to the false teachings of this group"
Maybe you may blame our group for pointing out that Christmas is a humongous collection of pagan evils, but that doesn't stop it from being a fact. I don't know what is specific happened to you, maybe your son missed a "holiday" or something.
But don't call it "false" teaching. Everyone knows what a yule tree is, and that Freya blesses mistletoe, and that the Easter bunny is for fertility, and Thanksgiving is Man-made, not a Holy Day.
You can't change the facts just by being mad at us.
Maybe your son wasn't told to be patient and kind like we are supposed to advise him?
But don't call us the ones who are false teachers. By God's grace, I can link an encyclopedia or bible verse for everything I've said so far.
Actually, on the contrary, our son is very patient… However there has been so much fear put into his mind that he can’t make exceptions on Tuesday’s or Saturday’s to miss services to attend family events that interfere with his attendance.
That is not unique to our religion. Christianity as a whole warns ad noseum to "not be caught in flight away from the sabbath" or a verse that went something like that. If you miss the chance to get cleansed, the old physical punishment was to be PUT TO DEATH.
We take our religious days seriously, because we believe in real blessings, from a Lord who actually is omnipotent.
If you know members in other religions, who say that its "okay" to miss days appointed by their divine patron, I garauntee you that whatever holy book they use would disagree.
NOW…
That being said. God is all merciful. And there are two occaisions where its been expressed that God doesn't expect us to do the impossible.
If you are "away on a journey" you can retake the passover one month later.
And IRL Heavenly mother said that she "understands" that it may be hard for some members to make it to zion early in th emorning for certain services, and simply encouraged thme to do the best they could.
In reality, our church only asks for a member to do their "best".
You can take your son on a road trip, or go to a family event out of town, thats a regular part of life that we deal with all the time and WMS members compensate by giving a special prayer at the appointed time.
But let me go on a tangent;
How long has he been in the WMS? Its possible theese "warnings" are fairly fresh in his mind as are the "dire" implications.
I mean brothers that have been in for a while understand that even Jesus said it was okay to pull your donkey out of a hole on the sabbath, I mean there are times when you have to pay attention to your family and I assume our God Elohim of love understands a few exceptions if its truley critical that he attends.
Perhaps he just needs to be reminded "what did Jesus say?" because TBH the WMS brothers and sisters are still human, we ourselves are not God, though we learn from God, and we give wrong advice on I will admit rare occaisions. It does happen.
As a fellow WMS member I would be glad to pass on that message if you feel that he isn't getting the attention and support?
Lets clarify my mostly true statement: mostly true, meaning comments here come from former members, non members and members of wmscog. Each with different or similar experiences. I can attest to what I have seen and know, not the opposite. All similar cases to me make up the mostly true.
My only criticism is that they are rare events, not indicitive of our society as a whole; especially when we've been teaching the opposite of what these 'cases' suggest for so very long.
you do need to recite it in Korean I was expected to teach the children the prayer in Korean and we had to make sure they leavened it before moving in same with adults they held hours going over it because it just had to be perfect in Korean
WMS brother, I would just like to say that most of us here are former wmscog members. So we are here sharing our experiences to each other and the difference in teachings from zion to zion is so astounding that it is now hard to know who received the "right" teaching and therefore the conclusion would be all of it were false. How could one religion teach so many different things?
You keep saying that we are blatantly lying but did you ever stop to think that we are just sharing the information taught to us by our own zion?
I was expected to teach the children the prayer in Korean"
It is something we offer to teach, yes. And the children were taught all manner of things that were good to know. But if the child doesn't want to, and the parent also says that their child is having a hard time learning it; it isn't forced upon them.
Yes there are times where I make a personal choice of my own to -want- to speak Korean better, and join the study group practicing. But it isn't compulsory at all. It comes highly reccomended, and perhaps thats wher you got the impression it was mandatory; but its not.
"the difference in teachings from zion to zion is so astounding"
Actually no they're not. What they teach in New York is the same as what they teach in LA, and thats the same as what they teach in San Diego, and Chicago.
What your talking about are a few cases where things went wrong, which has now been twisted around to destroy our chracter. Because people aren't allowed to make mistakes in the WMS, if they ever screw up, its a sign that they're a cult. It couldn't possibly be because we too are fallible humans.
"former wmscog members."
Okay, then if you know what we teach and our "modus opperendi" than this next question should be fairly easy for you;
Did you recieving a preaching booklet, and which studies in it have you been signed off to preach?
I would expect anyone critizing our teachings and the information we provide to know such teachings.
no I taught every child in my Zion they were required to lessen
as far as sermon books I got two versions was signed off on the first version completely and when the three book set came out I signed off 2/3 of the way and I know there was a different book before my first one with yet different studies
That last part wasn't directed at you, but that uis nice to know.
If it is required of children, that is different than how it is Not Required by adults.
I actually wouldn't argue against it being in the curriculum, because if the intention is to teach them to resemble Father and Mother, that is definately a way to do more things like they do.
If a parent disagrees, they may reconcile with a religious leader. Exceptions to things that are -not- actually the Law and doctrines of Christ are common. Our very -first- instruction about "What to do" if someone disagrees with a teaching, is to comfort and show patience. We make exceptions and take things slow very often.
I mean, as opposed to real cults, like Scientology, we don't have inward facing spiked bars. And we aren't violating laws or rights amongst members.
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