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I didn't see anyone mention it, so I'll post it here:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/779/473/298/religious-freedom-does-not-mean-religious-fraud-2/
Folks, get onboard with this. You have to put your name on it but it will not be posted to anyone else if you choose not to make it public. Let's get over a thousand names on this thing. Thanks for your help.
Uhm, what happened to that guy? and He is sueing because of what? How was he wronged? I would hate to sign this because I do not know the whole story… what if this guy was a child molester and the church banned him? That link has alot of claims, but what is his story? people don't just do all that to someone for no reason.
I actually have to agree with you, Nathanryan. It isn’t very clear the situation.
I too haven't signed the petition ….. yet.
I did not get the right vibes yesterday at the first reading itself. Will get back to it later and see.
Thank you, Smurf. I can accept that.
thank you smurf for linking that video, I am a Humanitarian at heart but I believe the that humanity is generally evil by nature, but wish the best for our fellow humans. Now when I saw that video, I never really heard why he got excomunicated from the church, only the aftermath with his family and being escorted/ watched when he was there. I think I heard something about him and Korean newcomers and him having bad attitude with them, etc… Now is the part where you can agree or disagree with me; our 'American' culture is very much different then Korea, I work with a huge group of Koreans, and have to admit they are stubborn/ relentless with things… It has been a long road of recovery for me to regain respect from Korean men and women I work with, after the one time I said something that went against what they believed/ what they were taught. So if this thing is all Korean based, it is just their culture…(BTW: all I did was make a reference of Kim Jong Un making a Septic tank as his new nuclear bomb, which is a reference to joe dirt.) most Koreans offend easily (this is not a racist comment, please don't misenterprete)
…. So back to the main topic, if he had a bad attitude with the korean members, they will hold a grudge or talk badly about him, that is human nature… multiple times, my family and myself have gone through this struggle, not just once but multiple times in many baptist churches. Many churches believe themselves as above morality and slander, my mother has been fired/ removed/ banished from 3 churches for going outside her limits and beliefs on what should be taught. ( she taught dancing, youthgroup, and gradeschool ministery at churches) my mother was fired because another church member working with her made complaints about her teaching style of Bible stories and not coloring, and also claimed my mother abused the kids, when the children would argue over toys/ blocks and seperate them to time-out corners…. that got my mother fired from a baptist church, teaching that the more you complain about your coworkers the higher you will get/ more reliable the church will think of you, no matter if it is wrong or right…
… so now that I am done venting about my situations in prior churches, hear me out; the Bible mentions about the end times and what will happen to all the followers of God, and it also mentions about false testimonies/ prophets/ members of the church. No matter what Church you are attached to there will be false prophets providing false testimonies on how you should live, and go against what you believe, it is human nature to find rivalry in the smallest of conditions; be it the school bleachers, to the gym at the corner, there will always be a rival you chose in even the smallest of conditions. So using this situational video as a referance is invalid in my opinion, unless truth/ Biblical/ full spectrum analysis can be proven against what they say… besides Their 2nd coming of christ idea. (without proof or reason, no one can be proven the victor in an arguement like that…I've read both beliefs on why, and why not and nothing can be considered truth unless prophecy and God's laws are seen as fullfilled)
So, Nathan, how did you hear Tim had a bad attitude with Koreans? Why would you say "you think you heard" when you don't even know if it was true? Are you trying to discourage signing the petition by detracting from Tim? I can tell you right now, if I sign that petition, which I am thinking very strongly of doing, it isn't because I have no respect for Koreans. That isn't true at all, and wouldn't be true of anyone on the petition as far as I can see. It is about the damage the wmscog does to families in every way. It would be becasue they use their members like tools, and I am convinced it is for the profit of a very small group of people, not most of the members of their congregation.
Don't cloud the issue of what this church does by trying to say other churches have false prophets and will tell you to how to live and even to go against what you believe. That has NEVER been my experience. Not true at all. Maybe a church that is a cult will do that, but not the mainstream ones.
nathanryan325, I know you're new to our forum as this is the first time I have seen your tag here. You could have been posting under a different name and if so I stand corrected. The man that started this pettition has added many things to our forum and the group of people that came out with him are responsible for some of the content on the main page. I understand that you came out of this group a while ago? What was it that finally convinced you that it was wrong? As for Tim McCarty and how he exited the group. (By the way, Tim has been posting here for a while under a different name to protect his family.) He had been in the group for about ten years (Devoted) when he started realizing that things don't add up over at the WMSCOG. The teachings over time had changed, some things were no longer taught, and things that he had learned newer people were telling him, "Mother never said that." After realizing that he had been lied to for a decade he started holding back and documenting things he was witnessing. When the WMSCOG caught on that Tim was no longer really with them they started turning his wife against him. Ron was the one that was instrumental in convincing Tim's wife to leave him. Ron talks a little about this in his video message. Tim is passionate about doing everything he can to expose this group. Does he have a bad attitude towards the WMS? Yes! For obvious reasons! This man is also very heartbroken for the people that he had to leave behind. Many of the long time members that were in his Zion learned the truth about this group and left the same time Tim did so fortunately there is a small support group helping each other through this. Most of these people feel so damaged that they really don't even want to talk about it. Tim helped me understand some of the complexities I was dealing with when my loved one was in. This is one of the people that I credit with helping my loved one to come out of the WMSCOG. If you don't want to support this man as his pettition then don't. Please don't character assasinate him for acting against the WMSCOG. He gets plenty of that from them. I have met this man personally and even though he can be rough about his distain for the WMSCOG he is trying to help in every way he can imagine.
Folks, it's up to you but I do encourage you to read and sign the pettition. This does not obligate you to anything as I understand it. Show your support or choose not to but please don't attack the effort.
Thanks for this insight, Joshua. It sounds like Tim has been through a lot, and I am so glad he was there to help you get your loved one out of there. We all need to support him.
Thank you joshua for provided deeper input on my questions.
Mountain Mom; I don't know why you are getting really hostile really quick. Also I am not against signing of the petition, but all the information must be shown or many will read these posts and not sign the petition. When I saw the video he made, I heard him say "he was percieved by the koreans to have a bad attitude"… and finally actually those 3 churches were not cults, in fact they were the more well known churches in Arizona, and they are well known all across the country. (Casas Adobes Baptist Church (Tucson, Az), Scottsdale Bible Church (Scottsdale Az), and I forgot the name of the other one (but I remember it was in Phoenix, Arizona near ironwood high school), all those churches were considered mainstreme and did misjustice to my family and myself.
.. and yes I agree with you, this petition is for the unjustice the church does to family members, I just want the whole picture, because a large group signing something out of hate, without knowing the facts that justify their hate is in the end a hate group, and those are the groups that always have failed.
Sorry if I seemed hostile Nathan. And I don't want to be seen as a person who would be in a hate group either. As I have said before, I don't hate these people. I do hate what the wmscog does to families. That is the reason for any and all hostility that may emanate from me. I guess I was lucky in that I never had a bad experience with my church, or any other mainstream church that I know of.
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