- Topic
Former Members Allege New Jersey Church, South Korea-Based World Mission Society Church of God, is Actually a 'Cult'
http://www.people.com/article/former-members-call-south-korean-church-a-cult
Lol! Thanks for clearing that up for me, and giving me a reason to laugh as well.
It seems to me that whoever is heading this thing up has based it similair to a network marketing model: each person gets ten people,who get ten people, who get ten people, etc., who all give 10% that goes through to the top. The extra money offerings go to run the local churches (my loved one financed large building projects on several churches with deployment money). If they say they have now 2,000,000 people in, that’s a lot of money. It is also interesting that the last names of the Koreans at some of the largest churches are the same.
WMS def. has some tactics that other churches (Mega Churches, here in the states) don’t do, that make it a very wealthy entity.
1. Making members pay for everything in the church.
2. Forcing members to give above the tithe.
3. Making members pay for their own visit to Korea.
3. Not showing members where their financial contribution is going. (Brown envelope helps smaller churches? Offering to building/construction fund..but there is no allocation of funds report)
5. Money funneled through Big Shine for its own money making purposes.
Once I left, I remember how a church I went to years before WMS, had a report to show where every dollar went. WMS will NEVER do that, in the US or in Korea.
Getting back to the Topic…I believe that Bigger Media outlets will do a piece on Wms. I hope its 60 minutes, or CNN.
UntouchableJ wrote:
Once I left, I remember how a church I went to years before WMS, had a report to show where every dollar went. WMS will NEVER do that, in the US or in Korea.
My own church puts out a financial report every year, showing what comes in and goes out and where, assets and liabilities, etc. And any legitimate company who takes investors (stock) or organization that takes contributions (charities) will have financial statements freely available (often online for anyone to click on!). Anyone who invests or donates has a right to know what's being done with their money, without feeling bad having to ask.
Momsix828 wrote:
It is also interesting that the last names of the Koreans at some of the largest churches are the same.
I think that's just cultural. I've read that about half of the Korean population has the family name Park, Lee, or Kim.
@genny, As you well know, asking legitimate questions in WMS, is called, “Grumbling and Complaining”.
Transparency is fair.
This church has come to our country yet they play by their rules. The WMS would be bound by our laws. What will the the lawmakers do about the lack of transparency with this church?
David, what they do could be intentional fraud. But at the same time what they do has cultural origins as well.
But how could the WMS be driven out of the country when we let them in?
And if we give them our money, are they forcing us?
The solutions to these problems are not so simple.
And doesn’t taste like what!? Chocolate? Oh no. That’s going too far.
The look on their faces when I brought up financial transparency….mann it was priceless
@Kai Please tell that story. When the Overseer asked my wife, “Write down your questions” and she asked him, “Do you work for Big Shine?”…he looked like he was choking on a sunflower seed. “Ye..ye..Yes. I do”.
In Chicago, when Jacob Lee was there, he had letterheads with the Big Shine Logo on them. There is no doubt that they are linked to Bigshine. Of course, members who know there is a link don't ask about Big Shine.
Kai TIng wrote:
The look on their faces when I brought up financial transparency….mann it was priceless
Same here Kai and Untouchable.
When I asked about finances and the pastors owning big shine, the overseeer told me "Leaders have to make a living outside of church"
I was also told by leaders that the Korean pastors, lived very humble in small houses/apartments, and only had the clothes on thier back.
Which I later found out to be huge BS as they may rent small apartments where members/leaders live, but they owned/invested in very wealthy affluent areas of Bergen County, NJ, which is available to the public via Recorders office.
What about those Benzes & Lexuses too?
One of the pastors was answering questions for my husband one time. My husband asked, are you paid by the church? The pastor said no. My husband said, well then, how do you live? The pastor said he owned an electronics company in Korea. Well, first of all, if you don't need to work to live and can spend it doing what you want to (being a pastor for the Wms, for instance) then isn't that what you would call being "independently wealthy"? Second of all, he is most likely paid by Big Shine, in my opinion, and that company is not just in Korea. Same pastor told my son that they didn't have a website in the states. B.S., you can readily find their websites about their company with John, Daniel, and Jacob Lee listed there as being affiliated. But if you looked at their website, you would probably wonder, how can anyone order from this company? It is very vague and looks shady, in my opinion. I've been told people go by where the company is supposed to be, in their many locations in the states, and nothing is there. Does anyone know the definition of "shell corporation?" I haven't looked up Bigshine in a while, so I don't know if they took down their websites or not. But they were definitely listed as being in the states, as well as in Korea, and the Lees were the officers in it.
At the same time Pastor Jacob Lee told my son that he wasn't paid by the church and owned this electronics company in Korea, my son was telling us how poor his pastor was. Right.
@Mountain Well, his pastor is NOT poor. The overseer at the church we left, started driving a high end luxury SUV about 9months ago. Again, at an attempt to get my wife to stay, she asked him, “What do you do?”. Tjere had been a rumor that he was a lawyer. He denied it, and told her his high end SUV was a company car. He confessed to working for Big Shine, only after dodging questions. He was secretive about it.
I'm sure you are right, Untouchable. I think it is funny that even people lower than pastors (I assume an overseer is a notch or two below) drive expensive rigs too and then try to justify it. Why so darn dodgy about everything if there is nothing to hide? Of course, we know the answer to that already.
@Mountain Indeed we do. I have noticed the Korean Overseers use the rude stand “offish” behavior to deter asking questions about their personal lives. The same tactic was used once, explaining about ASH having kids. The overseer stated, “Whug…God can’t have children, and get married? God can do whatever he/she wants!” Nobody ever questions why God would break his own laws by marrying again.
UntouchableJ wrote:
Nobody ever questions [why God would break his own laws by marrying again.]
and ostracism.
information management is the key to this whole thing.
@jw Yes, managing info is key. Wms does this well because they have mastered, plausible deniability. I asked a member, “Why do they never show members some of the other truth books (Church of Ladeocia, Problems with the Veil, etc)? Of course the answer is, because WMS doesn’t have them, or the copyrights to them. Heck, they only do Bible studies from them as a safe-guard. The member went on with, Slander this and that. But the point clear. Talk about the info as of its yours… When people find out its not yours, deny deny deny
Information control. But this truth site is above their control.
I know we are far away from the topic but what really happened at the NCPCOG? There was this story about the “false” mother. Did the members leave, then they formed the WMSCOG (as its currently called). So then they kept some of ASH’s books and didn’t return them? It’s just like when current members leave, they take their books with them too. I’ve heard WMS slander the NCPCOG, but the NCP has all the rights? Is that correct? Sounds like a good tv show.
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