- Topic
Former Members Allege New Jersey Church, South Korea-Based World Mission Society Church of God, is Actually a 'Cult'
http://www.people.com/article/former-members-call-south-korean-church-a-cult
Selena wrote:
You are right mountain mom long term members that come out struggle alot. I suffered from PTSD after I left and had to go to counseling. I was in constant fear, always anxious and thought that I would lose my mind. It is a struggle to gain back control of your mind. To realize not everyone is trying to manipulate or control you. I would go into fits of rage where i would begin to throw things because i no longer knew how to deal or understand my emotions after suppressing them for so long. I still deal with those things after 10 months of being out. It is a daily struggle to gain back control.
I am very sorry about what you have gone through. Going to counseling was a very smart thing to do, and I know that you will eventually recover. I think the rage is understandable and that a lot of people have to deal with that after getting out. You are by no means alone. I am surprised at how many people mention PTSD as a result of being a member, or as a result of dealing with a loved one in the wmscog. It is a reality for many people. But you can and will be Ok. Hang in there, Selena.
MountainMom wrote:
@Shugyo: Funny, that is always how I have referred to my son's involvement as well, the elephant in the room that no one seems to be able to talk about. Have you been out 7 years, or does that time include your involvement? My son has been in at least 7 years now, probably 8. (I wasn't aware for a while)I think the difficulty in talking about involvement even after leaving the church underscores just how damaging membership in this group is. It affects people long after they are out. I know of a guy who was only in five months before he was taken out of it by an intervention. This was over four years ago, and he and his family are still dealing with the after effects. I think it is much better now, but none of them want to talk about it. Sad to say, I think they really need to in order to get past it.
For members who were long term, I wonder how they cope when they come out? It varies, person to person, but I think most struggle mightily.
I've been out of it for 7 years. Was a member for 3 years. The last year I started to have serious questions and doubts. My grandfather passed away and the funeral was on a Saturday. I remember my group leader telling my ask Pastor what to do…and of course I did….I was a sheep. Afterwards I thought man this is weird and out of sight. My grandfather just passed and instead of getting the sympathy and condolences a person should get…I was getting looks of fear and why are you going to miss a Sabbath day to go to a funeral….so yea that pretty much started to domino effect. Looking back on it all I wish I would've made a plan. I went from believing in a higher power than denouncing everything. I spiraled out of control and started to abuse alcohol and overall became a shell of person. At the end of the day I take ownership of my actions….however I do believe my family being involved in the church and all the money being poured into it was a big trigger for my issues. Each person handles coming out of a cult differently. I still battle daily with the fact that my family goes to this church. Pours all their effort into it….It's destroyed a lot in regards to my family and my overall health.
Shugyo, I'm so sorry about all you've been through and that your family still is with the wmscog.
I can't quite tell–did you go to your grandfather's funeral after all? If it had not been on a Saturday, do you think you would have still had issues with going?
The bible says the Sabbath was made for man (and woman). Going to a funeral should be okay. Some of these Koreans don’t respect family do they?
I just finished a good book about rule-following and honesty/dishonesty.
Getting worn out tends to decrease our ability to
- make good decisions
- retain our honesty
Along with this research, rule following goes hand-in-hand with being worn out. We tired-out humans all have a tendency to hand over the keys, which means following rules. Rules become a stress reducer, in a way. God has now taken charge. We no longer have to think. It then feels ok, adding another layer to the process. More layers = harder to see.
The Sabbath is ok. Rules give us a stable society to live in.
But when the rules for the Sabbath are sacrilege to suggest we take a closer look….
one may have to look in the mirror and be surprised to see an Orthodox Jew staring back at us?
we do this to ourselves. these groups take all that we are willing to give. that's part of why it is invisible.
I agree @ jw0355 I’ve learned also, that Westerners despite the worlds negative connotations, tend to listen to others feelings and back down easy when approached with a very forward ideal. I remember how forward they came and approached us aboit Baptism. “You should do it now”. We are susceptible to a very strong willed approach. I see people all the time, listen to salesman (especially at the malls, lol) when they may have no interest in the product. So when a pushy WMS member approaches in the mall, etc, we “Give it a shot”.
Just wanted to bump this up because I notice that someone from the church has already been on The People Magazine comment area denying the article about them and saying everything is done by choice only. Well, ok, but who pressures them or guilts them into that choice? And are cult tactics such as sleep deprivation, fear mongering, repetition and social pressure a part of that? Of course they are. But as Untouchable said, they send people to bomb the article comments on anything that is negative to them. I hope the person actually read the article and some of it stuck in their minds for later reference. Sometimes their tactics backfire.
I tried leaving a comment on that site but it did not get posted
Regarding "choices", I don't believe that current members of any group like this realize that social pressure is part of the choice. And, running a group like this is about figuring out how much to take from each member.
so, a pregnant follower wondering about what she should do with the baby/fetus/fleshy-growth-thingy might be influenced in the direction of abortion (and make her own decision, right?) whereas a follower that wants to stand up against the Pharisees accusing the group of encouraging abortions….that mother is so brave even though we are in the last days and woe to the pregnant and nursing.
and that, in my opinion, is what makes the control that much harder to see.
and that is why I have been against categorical representations of so-called cult classifications.
NFL has football playoffs this weekend.
Let's get together with friends and family and be critical of the team that they really like and then see how they treat us and if they want to hang around much if every time we get together we bag on their favorite athletes/team.
Why? Are you defending WMS? I don’t mind if you do. Speak your mind. There are some things with the WMS that I agree with. I’ll defend them when and if it’s right to do so. I don’t fully understand where you are coming from JW. What are you talking about?
not saying to extrapolate this idea to all things social control, just
to watch human behavior in action
I'm arguing, in advance, that we wouldn't do this to our friends – in the normal world. probably part of what makes the controls so invisible. if this or any other high-demand group were'nt using things that come natural to us as sentient beings then what they do probably wouldn't work, I'd say. the secret is that there is no secret ingredient.
Mayor and Mike wrote:
Why? Are you defending WMS? I don't mind if you do. Speak your mind. There are some things with the WMS that I agree with. I'll defend them when and if it's right to do so. I don't fully understand where you are coming from JW. What are you talking about?
M&M, I realize JW's original statement was difficult to figure out (his explaination cleared that up) but I'm curious, besides the fact, that most if not all members are innocent and mind controlled, where and when could we defend the WMS?
Please note, I realize, I may be completely over reacting to your statement but if there are areas that I'm not aware of I would like to hear them.
Over react David, let loose if you like. Lol. Maybe we can have a good discussion in the end.
I’ll play the WMS advocate. I’m fine with that.
If we all agree, then this website will get boring pretty quick.
You are right, most of us were innocent and mind controlled. I was oblivious to what was going on. But then the red flags started popping up, and that got me more interested in this group.
So you ask when and where could we defend the WMS? Thats a good question. Depends on what aspects. I’ll have to think about it and get back to you. All I can say is when and if it’s right to do so.
As human beings don’t the have the freedoms and rights to have the basics in life? These people are not criminals, they are allowed to enter the country. However, the means in which they operate is wrong, very wrong.
I’ll continue to think about your question David.
And JW, you are right about their control, it’s invisible. You do see what’s going on at first. Its a different culture, control is unheard here, and it’s the norm there. Let’s continue to discuss our experiences and study these people, their culture in return.
This group is high demanding. But that’s their culture, they work very hard. They even have a 6.5 day work schedule out 7 last I looked. For me I need at least 2 days off.
To watch human behaviour in action? That what I was doing halfway through my tour in the WMS.
JW, “you *DON’T see what’s going on at first.”
Mayor and Mike wrote:
Over react David, let loose if you like. Lol. Maybe we can have a good discussion in the end.
I'll play the WMS advocate. I'm fine with that.
If we all agree, then this website will get boring pretty quick.
You are right, most of us were innocent and mind controlled. I was oblivious to what was going on. But then the red flags started popping up, and that got me more interested in this group.
So you ask when and where could we defend the WMS? Thats a good question. Depends on what aspects. I'll have to think about it and get back to you. All I can say is when and if it's right to do so.
As human beings don't the have the freedoms and rights to have the basics in life? These people are not criminals, they are allowed to enter the country. However, the means in which they operate is wrong, very wrong.
I'll continue to think about your question David.
M&M, I have no intention of lettiing loose. LOL. I know your not trying to defend them and please don't give yourself a headache trying to think of somewhere to defend the wms, I tried that once and I found it a waste of time and a quite frustrating.
You wrote: "These people are not criminals" "the means in which they operate is wrong, very wrong" (an opinion, I know)
Seriously though, I am curious, is what they do "just wrong" like "unscrupulous buisness tactics" or is what they do intentional "fraud" for financial gain? I honestly don't know the, legal, answer to that question. Is there a lawyer in this forum who could give us an opinion on that question?
If you say you are God just to get money, and you know darn well you aren't, and so do the people around you who are promoting you as God, is that fraud? Lawyers? Could you answer that question? I am curious too.
A false representation of a matter of fact—whether by words or by conduct, by false or misleading allegations, or by concealment of what should have been disclosed—that deceives and is intended to deceive another so that the individual will act upon it to her or his legal injury.
Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements:
(1) a false statement of a material fact,
(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue,
(3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim,
(4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and
(5) injury to the alleged victim as a result.
These elements contain nuances that are not all easily proved. First, not all false statements are fraudulent. To be fraudulent, a false statement must relate to a material fact. It should also substantially affect a person's decision to enter into a contract or pursue a certain course of action. A false statement of fact that does not bear on the disputed transaction will not be considered fraudulent.
Second, the defendant must know that the statement is untrue. A statement of fact that is simply mistaken is not fraudulent. To be fraudulent, a false statement must be made with intent to deceive the victim.
This is perhaps the easiest element to prove, once falsity and materiality are proved … because most material false statements are designed to mislead.
Third, the false statement must be made with the intent to deprive the victim of some legal right.
Fourth, the victim's reliance on the false statement must be reasonable. Reliance on a patently absurd false statement generally will not giverise to fraud; however, people who are especially gullible, superstitious, or ignorant or who are illiterate may recover damages for fraud if the defendant knew and took advantage of their condition.
Finally, the false statement must cause the victim some injury that leaves her or him in a worse position than she or he was in before the fraud.
If it smells like a turd, looks like a turd, attracts flies like a turd, and doesn't taste like chocolate, it probably is a t u r d.
That's another way of thinking about WMSCOG being a fraud or not.
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