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So take it court Joshua, without proof, even testimony does not hold up. Don't compare yours or others word to that of the apostles and God, the bible is testimony from prophets moved by the holy spirit so don't even think their words are the same, as we can see with Dianes testimony PEOPLE lie. Go back and watch her "testimony" if even I can see the faults in it a lawyer would rip it apart throw it right back in her face.
48:40 Daine sounds pretty upset no one called her after she left "Not one person" Almost looks like she was really upset about it.
Diane even says the pastor called looking for her.After service hmm she was sick for four days. Guess who else Call her, the one we call Mother herself? hmm even to mock her, I wonder which is no one or some called.
So is this another one of those testimonies your talking about Joshua?
By your logic a person can claim you physically assaulted them and get a court to convict you with just their testimony, but with out the scratches and bruises there testimony is pointless, just same you need physical evidence.
fromtheotherside wrote:
I don't know, How did Abraham, how Isaac?
Let me ask you. You know there are stories of how a father lied and said he was the one who commited some crime when really it was his son or daughter to protect them from prison. and there are stories when the parents actually gave there kids up and call the cops on them .
Which one do you think you are? I think I would lie. I'm being truthful I would lie to protect. Please answer truthfully from your HEART not your debating mind.
I would not lie in that case. I love my children dearly, but they know I believe in truth and I have taught them not to lie. They would also expect me not to lie.
God gave a commandment not to lie, repeated in the New Testament even. You say that it is ok to lie, at least sometimes. When you do that, you are putting yourself in the place of God, deciding when you want to follow His commands and when you think it's better not to. Isn't that what the wmscog complains about mainstream Christians doing–following their own way instead of God's commands?
I'm curious why you emphasize keeping the Sabbath, which is not directly commanded in the New Testament, but you push aside the direct commandment not to lie.
fromtheotherside wrote:
push aside? as I said I don't condone lieing what I said was God is the Judge of what is right and what is wrong. I was being truthfull with you i would lie to protect someone I loved. But is that wrong, I don't know God is the Judge. God said in the old testament don't lie be abraham did it, God judged him in some way I guess but can you judge the forefather of faith? or just me and other people?
Alright then, so are you saying that it's ok to do what you think is right, even if it's against God's commandment, and just let God be the judge? How important is a direct commandment of God to you?
In Abraham's case, he thought his own life was in danger if people knew Sarah was his wife, but there was no imminent threat–it was his fear. In your hypothetical example, there is no immediate threat of death if you let your child serve time in prison for something he has done, and it might actually be good for them, depending on the circumstances. What standard of measure do you use to know when it is ok not to follow a commandment?
I'm not trying to judge you here, just exploring these thoughts with you.
I've thought the same things in wondering whether or not I would lie in such situations. But do you see that when we do that we are rationalizing and 'using our own mind' (as the wmscog puts it) when we should just trust God and follow what He said.
Do you know the story of Corrie ten Boom? I'm currently reading her book "The Hiding Place" (for the second time), and she struggled with such questions too, in Nazi-occupied Holland. I was impressed with one story she recounted of her sister who felt very certain that she should follow God and not lie when she was asked directly "Where are you hiding the men?" and "Is this woman a Jew?" (not sure if I've got the words exactly the same, but in essence). Shall I make you do your homework and read the book? Or would you like me to just tell you what happened? 🙂
The sister told the soldiers where the men were truthfully, and it turned out they didn't believe her and didn't find them.
The next time, the sister told the soldier that yes the woman was a Jew. She (the Jew) was taken away, but soon released.
But her decision to tell the truth was the subject of hot debate among her friends and family (Christian).
It is a very good book. The first time I read it, I could hardly put it down.
One more thing, and then I must go. I think you should ask yourself why it bothers you so much that someone else might be lying when you yourself say that lying is sometimes ok and God should be the judge.
fromtheotherside wrote:
I don't know, How did Abraham, how Isaac?
Let me ask you. You know there are stories of how a father lied and said he was the one who commited some crime when really it was his son or daughter to protect them from prison. and there are stories when the parents actually gave there kids up and call the cops on them .
Which one do you think you are? I think I would lie. I'm being truthful I would lie to protect. Please answer truthfully from your HEART not your debating mind.
So this is your stand point of view? choosing to lie and take the false accusation just to protect your love ones? seriously, the former is just being stupid and spoil brat, no good deeds in it.
Can all you sane people see the arrogance emerge ? "Take it court Boy " was his statement. He said this to Joshua ? The one who is trying to be as decent as humanly possible with them. This is why I let him have it. There is no middle ground with these people. None. Trust me.
FTOS – I must point out one error in your understanding. Abraham and Isaac were not blessed by God because of their lies. They were blessed for other reasons despite having lied. So one should not conclude that it is OK to lie. A lie is a sin. However, we Christians believe God forgives the repentent sinner.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Genny I believe like abraham who lied to the kings and said sarah was his sister and like Isaac who did to save his life. Did God punish them in any way that you can see in the bible, on the contrary they were blessed overflowingly. There was not an incling of god be disapointed or angry about their lie. I believe somethings can be justifed in God's eye's depending on the situation. If God is not against what I do then I am not sinning but if God judges otherwise. then it is God's decision. God is Judge of what is right and wrong.
Can you quote anything specially from NT scripture to show that God was disappointed or angry at someone who did not keep the sabbath? Please don't flare up at the question. I think it is a legitimate one. We are just trying to understand each others' views.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Simon wrote:
fromtheotherside wrote:
Elie made a request on this site by comment under dianes video.
of course Diane will need to see it to supply it.. if she has it
Mother doesn't call anyone.
I was told she has done so… why does WATV ask for your phone number when you write Mother if she doesn't?
It's like saying "after being shot in the war and in the hospital no one came to see me I felt so unappreciated by my own country after I bleed for them" and saying " yea the president came and shook my hand not a big deal"
if you believe you have someone attempting to brain wash you and the alleged brainwasher calls you and the alleged brainwashed do not it appears that they were seeing if you were still a cashcow or not. and when they saw you weren't you were cut p
PROOF??
proof of what FTOS?
fromtheotherside wrote:
And rarely does she call anyone. Did she call you?
rarely isn't the same as never and no she did not, no one has called me and it was more than two months before I saw anyone two people did eventually come to visit me at work.
No I said she probably felt that way, based on the entire interview
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