Mother God vs Mother of God

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #7278
    IrenaeusFTW
    Participant

    fromtheotherside wrote:

    IrenaeusFTW wrote:

    Just seeing "mother god" written out infuriates me. What awful blasphemy. 

    Yeah so is praying to Mary, what a blasphemous deed, makes me wanna throw up

    First, its clear in scripture that God has a mother. It's Mary. Scripture says "all generations" will call her blessed, and she is indeed. Mary is praised by name in the inspired word of God. Zahng certainly isn't mentioned. 

    Catholics pray to saints asking for their prayers and intercession before God. We don't worship them. We are all united in the body of Christ, on heaven and earth. We are surrounded by a cloud heavnely witnesses who offer prayers to God on our behalf. (Hebrews 12:1, Rev 5:8) Christ spoke with the saints, we being part of His body, imitate Him.(Transfiguration)  It's an ancient Christian doctrine called the 'communion of saints,' not a modern concoction tricking poor souls into worshiping an old lady in Korea. 

    About prayer to saints from an Orthodox perspective: 

    http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/invocationofsaints.aspx

    About Mary from a Catholic perspective: 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA

  • #59254

    Simon
    Participant

    Mary is Jesus's mother in his humanity not as God 

     

    and while yes Catholic doctrine doesn't worship Mary indvidual Catholics do I have come to realise the biggest weapon WMSCOG has is Catholics own misunderstanding of Catholic doctrine.

    #59255

    fromtheotherside
    Participant

    Praying to the saints weredoes the bible teach that? Yeah I would rather worship Mother than the bones of saints. The only prayer jesus taught was my father in heaven not mary or apostle paul.

    #59256

    IrenaeusFTW
    Participant

    Simon wrote:

     

    and while yes Catholic doctrine doesn't worship Mary indvidual Catholics do I have come to realise the biggest weapon WMSCOG has is Catholics own misunderstanding of Catholic doctrine.

    Can't argue with that.

    Mary is the mother of a person, who is fully God and man. She gave birth to His whole person. So she can rightly be called "theotokos," "God Bearer" or "Mother of God."

    #59257

    IrenaeusFTW
    Participant

    fromtheotherside wrote:

    Praying to the saints weredoes the bible teach that? Yeah I would rather worship Mother than the bones of saints. The only prayer jesus taught was my father in heaven not mary or apostle paul.

    I don't believe in the "bible alone." I believe in the tradition of the apostles as handed down from the early Church.   

    #59258

    fromtheotherside
    Participant

    And what proof do you have they did those things?

    #59259

    IrenaeusFTW
    Participant

    fromtheotherside wrote:

    And what proof do you have they did those things?

     1st century graffiti on the tombs of the apostles and martyrs. Early Christian liturgies. Their writings. 

     

    fromtheotherside wrote:

    Because it is not in thebible anywhere so if you feel keeping something christ did not teach to paul is okay then there is no hope for you and no reason to debate with you either.

    FTOS, on what grounds do you accept the New Testament? Where did the inspired table of contents come from? 

    #59260

    Joshua
    Participant

    FTOS, I'm just curious, you quoted that the only prayer Jesus taught was my father in heaven but you also stated that you would rather worship mother. Why contradict what Jesus taught? It seems blasphemous and rebellious. I know this conversation is more focused against the practices of Catholics but when you reply to this please avoid doing this. It wont help me understand where you are coming from.

    #59261

    fromtheotherside
    Participant

    It iz not a contradition because we believe in ash he believes in Jesus so no not a contridiction.

    #59262

    fromtheotherside
    Participant

    Iraenus believes in jesus

    #59263

    fromtheotherside
    Participant

    The NT was gathered together by the early church

    #59264

    fromtheotherside
    Participant

    And no thecatholic did not putthe bible together.

    #59265

    emil
    Participant

    fromtheotherside wrote:

    Praying to the saints weredoes the bible teach that? Yeah I would rather worship Mother than the bones of saints. The only prayer jesus taught was my father in heaven not mary or apostle paul.

    While you may worship mother, catholics do not worship the bones of saints. Nor do we worship saints at all. What you call praying to the saints and Mary is actually asking for their intercession. We do not believe they have the power to grant anything in and of themselves.

     There are two parts to this debate.

    1. Is it valid to ask others to intercede on one's behalf?

    2. What if those asked to intercede are "dead" – as in passed from this world?

    As regards the first, I can give you a large number of example where the apostles asked for intercessory prayer. Here are a few. 

    Rom 15:30 and 31, 2 Cor 1:11, 2 Cor 9:14, Eph 6:18, 19 and 20,…. the examples are too numerous to list here. As you can see, requesting for intercessory prayer was a common practice during apostolic times and the bible proves it.

    As regards the second, we call them the communion of saints who are alive in spirit and much closer to God than we are. Hence their greater power to intercede. Now "where is it in theb bible?" you may ask. IrenaeusFTW already gave you Heb 12:1 and Rev 5:8. Now I give you something straight from Jesus' mouth. Read Mk 12:18-27.  Here are verses 26 and 27:

    Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the account of the burning bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!”

    The saints who have gone before us from this world are not dead in spirit.

    Now look at Luke chapter 16. Jesus tells the story of the rich man and the beggar. He goes on to describe the rich man praying to Abraham for help. But Abraham could not help him. Why? It is because the man was already in hell and it was too late.

    Do you get it?

    #59266

    emil
    Participant

    fromtheotherside wrote:

    The NT was gathered together by the early church

     

    fromtheotherside wrote:

    And no thecatholic did not putthe bible together.

    Whether you want to call it the catholic church or the early church, it is one and the same thing. It was just the one church at the time.

    #59267

    Simon
    Participant

    thats a catholic claim not only fringe christians don't believe in

    #59268

    emil
    Participant

    Ok lets hear it from you. Who put the bible together?

    #59269

    Simon
    Participant

    The Old Testament was assemebeled by the Jews

    The New Testament was put together before the Roman Catholic Church by consensus of the Early Church

    #59270

    emil
    Participant

    Simon wrote:

    The New Testament was put together before the Roman Catholic Church by consensus of the Early Church

    And when did that happen?

    #59271

    Simon
    Participant

    its unknown 

    #59272

    emil
    Participant

    The Early church was called the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic church AFAIK.

    #59273

    emil
    Participant

    fromtheotherside wrote:

    It iz not a contradition because we believe in ash he believes in Jesus so no not a contridiction.

    Help me understand what you are saying here. Do you mean Irenaeus is bound to follow Jesus' law because he believes in Jesus while you are not bound by Jesus' law because you believe in ASH. Therefore you are bound by ASH's law?

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