- Topic
HI fellow members,
I had been a member of this church for a little bit over a year.This church was introduced to me by my ex girl-friend. But to make the story short this so called true church is letting their female member marry the brother just for sex. There was this sister on the church that was in a relationship with a brother and since the brother was not a believer no more she decided to end their relationship. after a few months after their break up she wanted to get back with him but he said no. A short while after she was texting him to get married with her because she could not hold it no more(sex) but the brother said no that he would not marry her for sex. I found out a week ago that this sister told pastor her problem about wanting to have relations and pastor approved a marriage between her and another brother that was really good friends with the ex of the sister.smh. This church is letting these poor lost young adults get married purely out of desire and not love.
genny wrote:
shimon wrote:
Sorry no I will not it isn't about safety in the least. How does paving a parking lot impede safety without a piece of paper magically making it safe? It gets so asisnine that even if a building were completely complient with all laws zoning and safety that just not paying for a permit despite being 100% otherwise compliant would make a building illegal to occupy into perpetuity, no matter how safe. You cannot convince me that is about anything but money and blackmail. In fact I never would have guessed paving a parking lot would require a permit as that is MAINTENENCE NOT CONSTRUCTION.
Oh, so you wouldn't mind buying a building that was built without permits?
Nope not so long as it was built safely a peice of paper doesn't make a building safe
genny wrote:
Immigration laws are against love your neighbour actually, they are narcissistic ethnocentric and once again not even constitutional.
And you don't mind immigrant criminals and terrorists moving into your neighborhood?
You know that is a hyperbole and scare tactic
genny wrote:
But you don't seem to be addressing the point of a Christian organization or its members considering themselves above the law when the Bible says to submit to your governing authorities. The wmscog chooses to disobey that command of God? Even though you claim it obeys all God's instructions and commands.
The fact of the matter is they applied for a permit and were likely unaware that fixing a parking lot through repaving would require a new permit. OFTEN permits allow fixing into perpetuity. And a lot of renevations are legal without permits as well. For example in california you can fully renevate up to 50% of your house at a time without a permit.
genny wrote:
shimon wrote:
Sorry no I will not it isn't about safety in the least. How does paving a parking lot impede safety without a piece of paper magically making it safe? It gets so asisnine that even if a building were completely complient with all laws zoning and safety that just not paying for a permit despite being 100% otherwise compliant would make a building illegal to occupy into perpetuity, no matter how safe. You cannot convince me that is about anything but money and blackmail. In fact I never would have guessed paving a parking lot would require a permit as that is MAINTENENCE NOT CONSTRUCTION.
Oh, so you wouldn't mind buying a building that was built without permits?
Nope not so long as it was built safely a peice of paper doesn't make a building safe
genny wrote:
Immigration laws are against love your neighbour actually, they are narcissistic ethnocentric and once again not even constitutional.
And you don't mind immigrant criminals and terrorists moving into your neighborhood?
You know that is a hyperbole and scare tactic
genny wrote:
But you don't seem to be addressing the point of a Christian organization or its members considering themselves above the law when the Bible says to submit to your governing authorities. The wmscog chooses to disobey that command of God? Even though you claim it obeys all God's instructions and commands.
The fact of the matter is they applied for a permit and were likely unaware that fixing a parking lot through repaving would require a new permit. OFTEN permits allow fixing into perpetuity. And a lot of renevations are legal without permits as well. For example in california you can fully renevate up to 50% of your house at a time without a permit.
shimon wrote:
genny wrote:
shimon wrote:
Sorry no I will not it isn't about safety in the least. How does paving a parking lot impede safety without a piece of paper magically making it safe? It gets so asisnine that even if a building were completely complient with all laws zoning and safety that just not paying for a permit despite being 100% otherwise compliant would make a building illegal to occupy into perpetuity, no matter how safe. You cannot convince me that is about anything but money and blackmail. In fact I never would have guessed paving a parking lot would require a permit as that is MAINTENENCE NOT CONSTRUCTION.
Oh, so you wouldn't mind buying a building that was built without permits?
Nope not so long as it was built safely a peice of paper doesn't make a building safe
That's only if you know and trust the person building it. It's a little harder to trust a stranger with that. As irritating as those laws are to people who build right, there are valid reasons to have such laws.
genny wrote:
Immigration laws are against love your neighbour actually, they are narcissistic ethnocentric and once again not even constitutional.
And you don't mind immigrant criminals and terrorists moving into your neighborhood?
You know that is a hyperbole and scare tactic
Of course. 🙂 But again, it shows that some laws and regulations are needed.
genny wrote:
But you don't seem to be addressing the point of a Christian organization or its members considering themselves above the law when the Bible says to submit to your governing authorities. The wmscog chooses to disobey that command of God? Even though you claim it obeys all God's instructions and commands.
The fact of the matter is they applied for a permit and were likely unaware that fixing a parking lot through repaving would require a new permit. OFTEN permits allow fixing into perpetuity. And a lot of renevations are legal without permits as well. For example in california you can fully renevate up to 50% of your house at a time without a permit.
It depends on what you are renovating, not how much of your house is being renovated.
We've been getting into the nitty gritty of permits and immigration, but the point again is…
How can a Christian organization (or its members) claim to obey all God's instructions and commands, and yet disobey the Bible's command to submit to your governing authorities?
Please address the main point.
shimon wrote:
genny wrote:
shimon wrote:
Sorry no I will not it isn't about safety in the least. How does paving a parking lot impede safety without a piece of paper magically making it safe? It gets so asisnine that even if a building were completely complient with all laws zoning and safety that just not paying for a permit despite being 100% otherwise compliant would make a building illegal to occupy into perpetuity, no matter how safe. You cannot convince me that is about anything but money and blackmail. In fact I never would have guessed paving a parking lot would require a permit as that is MAINTENENCE NOT CONSTRUCTION.
Oh, so you wouldn't mind buying a building that was built without permits?
Nope not so long as it was built safely a peice of paper doesn't make a building safe
That's only if you know and trust the person building it. It's a little harder to trust a stranger with that. As irritating as those laws are to people who build right, there are valid reasons to have such laws.
genny wrote:
Immigration laws are against love your neighbour actually, they are narcissistic ethnocentric and once again not even constitutional.
And you don't mind immigrant criminals and terrorists moving into your neighborhood?
You know that is a hyperbole and scare tactic
Of course. 🙂 But again, it shows that some laws and regulations are needed.
genny wrote:
But you don't seem to be addressing the point of a Christian organization or its members considering themselves above the law when the Bible says to submit to your governing authorities. The wmscog chooses to disobey that command of God? Even though you claim it obeys all God's instructions and commands.
The fact of the matter is they applied for a permit and were likely unaware that fixing a parking lot through repaving would require a new permit. OFTEN permits allow fixing into perpetuity. And a lot of renevations are legal without permits as well. For example in california you can fully renevate up to 50% of your house at a time without a permit.
It depends on what you are renovating, not how much of your house is being renovated.
We've been getting into the nitty gritty of permits and immigration, but the point again is…
How can a Christian organization (or its members) claim to obey all God's instructions and commands, and yet disobey the Bible's command to submit to your governing authorities?
Please address the main point.
The command for one is when it is possible to obey both two as I said their understanding of what needs permits could’ve been mistaken,
The command for one is when it is possible to obey both two as I said their understanding of what needs permits could’ve been mistaken,
Also if laws conflict which do you, follow
Also if laws conflict which do you, follow
TL:DR Emotional and relationship drama should not be put on blast.
I don't appreciate being told secondhand what "pastor said" unless you can quote word for word the full conversation of the Pastor.
—
There are verses which actually do say "if you cannot contain yourself" then go get married. If I remember correctly its in the same section which talks about abstinence and remaining umarried. So, explaining the mature course of action in this dramatic circumstance involves a lot of factors of love, lust, and the law of Christ.
Unless I heard the exact words used by the pastor, and got into her personal buisiness to delve into the truth (which, really is -none- of my business, nor do I believe any of yours), there is no way that I could make an accurate judgement on what was said.
There are situations which are difficult for -anyone- to have to deal with. I don't think attacking people's character is really appropriate. People should focus more on whether or not they are doing the right things themselves, because even for the Apostles and Disciples of Christ, the early church -immediately- had problems with people falling away or "expell the immoral brother".
Complicated things happened even during Christs' time, instead, lets focus on his instructions so we can share his love.
TL:DR Emotional and relationship drama should not be put on blast.
I don't appreciate being told secondhand what "pastor said" unless you can quote word for word the full conversation of the Pastor.
—
There are verses which actually do say "if you cannot contain yourself" then go get married. If I remember correctly its in the same section which talks about abstinence and remaining umarried. So, explaining the mature course of action in this dramatic circumstance involves a lot of factors of love, lust, and the law of Christ.
Unless I heard the exact words used by the pastor, and got into her personal buisiness to delve into the truth (which, really is -none- of my business, nor do I believe any of yours), there is no way that I could make an accurate judgement on what was said.
There are situations which are difficult for -anyone- to have to deal with. I don't think attacking people's character is really appropriate. People should focus more on whether or not they are doing the right things themselves, because even for the Apostles and Disciples of Christ, the early church -immediately- had problems with people falling away or "expell the immoral brother".
Complicated things happened even during Christs' time, instead, lets focus on his instructions so we can share his love.
loocpoc wrote:
WMS brother wrote:
TL:DR … lets focus on his instructions so we can share his love.
But you dont. You focus on the words of a dead Korean man and an adultering woman who is in no way G-d. Its idol worship.
That "dead Korean man" repeated the example of Christ to keep Sabbath on saturday. That "adultering woman" repeats the example of the Apostles in how they kept Sabbath, and the seven feasts of the three times.
I've attempted to post source information on the articles on the front page numerous times, but for "some reason" my posts never show up. That is why I now made this account.
If they were Idols, they would not be written about in the Bible. And, if they were idols, the teachings that we instruct everyone to follow would -not- be the true example of Jesus and the Apostles.
As it is, we teach everyone to emulate exactly what the Apostles did at all of the appointed times, according to the bible, and the true history of the early Church. This includes wearing the veil, this includes third day worship. This includes the daily prayer times.
Yet here, personal lives are attacked instead of listening to both sides of the argument.
loocpoc wrote:
WMS brother wrote:
TL:DR … lets focus on his instructions so we can share his love.
But you dont. You focus on the words of a dead Korean man and an adultering woman who is in no way G-d. Its idol worship.
That "dead Korean man" repeated the example of Christ to keep Sabbath on saturday. That "adultering woman" repeats the example of the Apostles in how they kept Sabbath, and the seven feasts of the three times.
I've attempted to post source information on the articles on the front page numerous times, but for "some reason" my posts never show up. That is why I now made this account.
If they were Idols, they would not be written about in the Bible. And, if they were idols, the teachings that we instruct everyone to follow would -not- be the true example of Jesus and the Apostles.
As it is, we teach everyone to emulate exactly what the Apostles did at all of the appointed times, according to the bible, and the true history of the early Church. This includes wearing the veil, this includes third day worship. This includes the daily prayer times.
Yet here, personal lives are attacked instead of listening to both sides of the argument.
"But many other christian sects have kept all that you have written."
Name a single one.
"Jews have kept the laws and services as required"
They don't believe in Christ (unless messianic), they don't keep passover with bread and wine, they don't fast as opposed to eating unleavened bread, and they don't eat unleavened bread on ressurection day as opposed to the feast of firstfruits… I could go on.
But, I really prefer to talk about the right things to do, which church is the true church will reveal itself simply through those merits.
"How many pictures of mother do you have?"
Many, but we never bow to them, we never pray to them, and I've never seen them in the sanctuary, and I know that -none- of them are allowed near the altar. Pictures are nice to look at, and we use them to convey information or stories, but thats it. Zero prayer or idolatry.
Compare to: bowing before and praying to the cross in Jesus' name.
"Idol worship means there is no more than one G-d"
Thats correct. There is no more than one God. The entire point of the Trinity is that they are the exact same person. Which is what God actually says about himself. Isiah 9:6 the male child will be called "mighty god" and in other verses, alpha omega, beginning and end, creator of the universe, etc…God, who is almighty, can look like anything they want.
Also, if Male and Female are both images of the same God, then commanding to worship them with no idols obviously excludes -themselves- as they themselves do want the faithful.
Also, Christ said that when he comes back, it is going to be with a new name. He's not going to be the same person. Rev 3:12 "and I will also write on him my new name." Therefore as we pray and ask for all things in the name of the Lord, if the Lord says he wants a new name, thats the new name we use.
"But many other christian sects have kept all that you have written."
Name a single one.
"Jews have kept the laws and services as required"
They don't believe in Christ (unless messianic), they don't keep passover with bread and wine, they don't fast as opposed to eating unleavened bread, and they don't eat unleavened bread on ressurection day as opposed to the feast of firstfruits… I could go on.
But, I really prefer to talk about the right things to do, which church is the true church will reveal itself simply through those merits.
"How many pictures of mother do you have?"
Many, but we never bow to them, we never pray to them, and I've never seen them in the sanctuary, and I know that -none- of them are allowed near the altar. Pictures are nice to look at, and we use them to convey information or stories, but thats it. Zero prayer or idolatry.
Compare to: bowing before and praying to the cross in Jesus' name.
"Idol worship means there is no more than one G-d"
Thats correct. There is no more than one God. The entire point of the Trinity is that they are the exact same person. Which is what God actually says about himself. Isiah 9:6 the male child will be called "mighty god" and in other verses, alpha omega, beginning and end, creator of the universe, etc…God, who is almighty, can look like anything they want.
Also, if Male and Female are both images of the same God, then commanding to worship them with no idols obviously excludes -themselves- as they themselves do want the faithful.
Also, Christ said that when he comes back, it is going to be with a new name. He's not going to be the same person. Rev 3:12 "and I will also write on him my new name." Therefore as we pray and ask for all things in the name of the Lord, if the Lord says he wants a new name, thats the new name we use.
WMS brother wrote:
Thats correct. There is no more than one God. The entire point of the Trinity is that they are the exact same person. Which is what God actually says about himself. Isiah 9:6 the male child will be called "mighty god" and in other verses, alpha omega, beginning and end, creator of the universe, etc…God, who is almighty, can look like anything they want.
Also, if Male and Female are both images of the same God, then commanding to worship them with no idols obviously excludes -themselves- as they themselves do want the faithful.
The wmscog clearly taught me that they believe in TWO gods, not one. Not two images of the same god, but two gods, a god for each image. Do you misunderstand your own church, or would you like to explain that again?
Also, Christ said that when he comes back, it is going to be with a new name. He's not going to be the same person. Rev 3:12 "and I will also write on him my new name." Therefore as we pray and ask for all things in the name of the Lord, if the Lord says he wants a new name, thats the new name we use.
Rev. 3:12 does talk about a new name, but not a different person. The angels at the ascension said, "This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11)
Also, if you study the many names and titles of God in the Bible, you find that they are not names like Bob and Jim. They all have deep meaning and express the character of God, even the name Jesus. What is the meaning of the name Ahn Sahng Hong?
WMS brother wrote:
Thats correct. There is no more than one God. The entire point of the Trinity is that they are the exact same person. Which is what God actually says about himself. Isiah 9:6 the male child will be called "mighty god" and in other verses, alpha omega, beginning and end, creator of the universe, etc…God, who is almighty, can look like anything they want.
Also, if Male and Female are both images of the same God, then commanding to worship them with no idols obviously excludes -themselves- as they themselves do want the faithful.
The wmscog clearly taught me that they believe in TWO gods, not one. Not two images of the same god, but two gods, a god for each image. Do you misunderstand your own church, or would you like to explain that again?
Also, Christ said that when he comes back, it is going to be with a new name. He's not going to be the same person. Rev 3:12 "and I will also write on him my new name." Therefore as we pray and ask for all things in the name of the Lord, if the Lord says he wants a new name, thats the new name we use.
Rev. 3:12 does talk about a new name, but not a different person. The angels at the ascension said, "This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11)
Also, if you study the many names and titles of God in the Bible, you find that they are not names like Bob and Jim. They all have deep meaning and express the character of God, even the name Jesus. What is the meaning of the name Ahn Sahng Hong?
genny wrote:
The wmscog clearly taught me that they believe in TWO gods, not one. Not two images of the same god, but two gods, a god for each image. Do you misunderstand your own church, or would you like to explain that again?
Rev. 3:12 does talk about a new name, but not a different person. The angels at the ascension said, "This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11)
Also, if you study the many names and titles of God in the Bible, you find that they are not names like Bob and Jim. They all have deep meaning and express the character of God, even the name Jesus. What is the meaning of the name Ahn Sahng Hong?
Two images, two manifestations, it might as well be called "two gods" but "God Elohim" is one. They are tantamount to being the same, and "God" simply adresses them both, as one. Father and Mother. They aren't like, seperate gods with different agendas and stuff, they are unified with each other, almost to a point of interchangeability. I am not confused at all, only its hard to describe. They are two Gods, that is true. They are one God, that is also true.
Rev 3:12 I meant to say its the same Jesus, same -person-, but different body*
per Isaiah 46:11 "From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose."
That is the meaning of the trinity, Jehova, Jesus, and the Holy Sprit (ahn-sahng-hong) are all the exact same people. Jesus is the same Jesus who is now the Holy Spirit. With a new name, just like he promised, as the man who came from the east, as promised.
Currently, I am unaware of the significance. Its probably something pretty cool. But having a cool name isn't actually the requirement of the prophecy. It just has to be a new name other than Jehova or Jesus.
But anyway thats enough from me here, we kind of got off topic.
genny wrote:
The wmscog clearly taught me that they believe in TWO gods, not one. Not two images of the same god, but two gods, a god for each image. Do you misunderstand your own church, or would you like to explain that again?
Rev. 3:12 does talk about a new name, but not a different person. The angels at the ascension said, "This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11)
Also, if you study the many names and titles of God in the Bible, you find that they are not names like Bob and Jim. They all have deep meaning and express the character of God, even the name Jesus. What is the meaning of the name Ahn Sahng Hong?
Two images, two manifestations, it might as well be called "two gods" but "God Elohim" is one. They are tantamount to being the same, and "God" simply adresses them both, as one. Father and Mother. They aren't like, seperate gods with different agendas and stuff, they are unified with each other, almost to a point of interchangeability. I am not confused at all, only its hard to describe. They are two Gods, that is true. They are one God, that is also true.
Rev 3:12 I meant to say its the same Jesus, same -person-, but different body*
per Isaiah 46:11 "From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose."
That is the meaning of the trinity, Jehova, Jesus, and the Holy Sprit (ahn-sahng-hong) are all the exact same people. Jesus is the same Jesus who is now the Holy Spirit. With a new name, just like he promised, as the man who came from the east, as promised.
Currently, I am unaware of the significance. Its probably something pretty cool. But having a cool name isn't actually the requirement of the prophecy. It just has to be a new name other than Jehova or Jesus.
But anyway thats enough from me here, we kind of got off topic.
loocpoc wrote:
shimon wrote:
Also if laws conflict which do you, follow
You should follow the law set forth by man and repent in your heart. Such as I work on the Shabbos. Do I agree with it? Nope but I must do my duty..
Richard Belzer once said as Det. John Munch on Homicide: Life On The Street "The only thing Judasim and I have in common is the fact the neither of us likes to work on Saturday."
I would call that idolatry. You must put God who is the only sovereign above ALL considerations or you turn that other consideration into an idol/false "god"
What if we passed a law not allowing fringes or kippas? or what if we passed a law outlawing the possesion of works in Hebrew or maybe required everyone to eat pork? or to eat cheeseburgers (ACTUALLY KOSHER BTW)? Or maybe a law requiring we all worship Ra? Or a law outlawing worship of any deity?
Would you still argue we should keep all of those?
loocpoc wrote:
shimon wrote:
Also if laws conflict which do you, follow
You should follow the law set forth by man and repent in your heart. Such as I work on the Shabbos. Do I agree with it? Nope but I must do my duty..
Richard Belzer once said as Det. John Munch on Homicide: Life On The Street "The only thing Judasim and I have in common is the fact the neither of us likes to work on Saturday."
I would call that idolatry. You must put God who is the only sovereign above ALL considerations or you turn that other consideration into an idol/false "god"
What if we passed a law not allowing fringes or kippas? or what if we passed a law outlawing the possesion of works in Hebrew or maybe required everyone to eat pork? or to eat cheeseburgers (ACTUALLY KOSHER BTW)? Or maybe a law requiring we all worship Ra? Or a law outlawing worship of any deity?
Would you still argue we should keep all of those?
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