[daluca matthew]

Hi my name's mat and a couple months ago my girlfriend was going through tought times with her job (feeling of being unappreciated) and ended up quiting, the night she made the decision of quiting a member came up to her and convinced her to join the church.

First I thought it was just another church and I went there one "sabbath" day i did about 6 studies and was starting to believe a little, even though i had doubts after every study. I hardly trust things right in front of me , I couldn't just trust someone who was trying to flip my views on religion. I did some research online  and found this site,I watched many videos, read some of the evidence and even bought steve hassan's book, I was convinced this church was fake so I tried to show my girlfriend one of the videos. as soon as i pressed play she shut the screen off and we had one of the hugest arguements of our relationship. This was about a month ago, now i'm at the point where I dont know what to do, i showed her scriptures that should of created doubt in her head because she wont listen to me about anything unless it's in the bible, but even when i show her what's in the bible she takes it the way the poeple at her church tell her to understand and that causes more arguements. We been living together for 2 months now, fighting for a month, and now im moving out on the 31st, i'm afraid when i leave she'll become more involved with the church. I cant let her go because I know its not her fault, No normal person would ever put up with all this, we been talkin for about a year and i'm not willing to throw everything away because of this church.

She's a very combative person and every talk turns into an arguement soon enough when the church is brought up, she doesn't believe anything unless you show it to her right in your face. 

I dont know what to do, help please

[Smurf]

[Smurf]

If I were you, I'd avoid direct confrontations. Try to show understanding, because from her perspective it looks like you're trying to convince her that what you believe is right. Let her know that you have reasons to believe the church she's in is a cult, but that you also respect her choices!

Don't push, you'll only push her away.

If she doesn't bring up the church, you don't either. Be there for her, and don't move out if you can.

Remember – the relationship she has with those people is FAKE. Sooner or later she will realize that.

[daluca matthew]

thanks, i kinda know that but it provokes me all the time she brings it up, i'm not perfect. i have a short fuse when it comes to the church. 

Its already too late, i'm going to have to move out, she's with her family and they all know about the cult but most of them really don't care all that much

[daluca matthew]

also its tough to believe the relationship is fake, i asked her who she would want as her maid of honor and she brought up someone from the church and said she's really her only friend etc. she's even about to be one of there weddings

[MountainMom]

All of this when she was only recruited two months ago?  Wow. 

[Travis]

MatNeedshelp wrote:

 

Hi my name's mat and a couple months ago my girlfriend was going through tought times with her job (feeling of being unappreciated) and ended up quiting, the night she made the decision of quiting a member came up to her and convinced her to join the church.

First I thought it was just another church and I went there one "sabbath" day i did about 6 studies and was starting to believe a little, even though i had doubts after every study. I hardly trust things right in front of me , I couldn't just trust someone who was trying to flip my views on religion. I did some research online  and found this site,I watched many videos, read some of the evidence and even bought steve hassan's book, I was convinced this church was fake so I tried to show my girlfriend one of the videos. as soon as i pressed play she shut the screen off and we had one of the hugest arguements of our relationship. This was about a month ago, now i'm at the point where I dont know what to do, i showed her scriptures that should of created doubt in her head because she wont listen to me about anything unless it's in the bible, but even when i show her what's in the bible she takes it the way the poeple at her church tell her to understand and that causes more arguements. *1 We been living together for 2 months now, fighting for a month, and now im moving out on the 31st, i'm afraid when i leave she'll become more involved with the church. I cant let her go because I know its not her fault, No normal person would ever put up with all this, *2 we been talkin for about a year and i'm not willing to throw everything away because of this church.

She's a very combative person and every talk turns into an arguement soon enough when the church is brought up, *3 she doesn't believe anything unless you show it to her right in your face. 

I dont know what to do, help please

 

also its tough to believe the relationship is fake, i asked her who she would want as her maid of honor and she brought up someone from the church and said she's really her only friend etc. she's even about to be one of there weddings

 

@Mat, Giving you the benefit of the doubt .. I feel that God is actually helping you get away from a potentially horrible relationship.

First, your "girl" has been a member for only two months and she has already deserted you and whatever friends she had. Also, according to the story, she has already chosen one of the members –that she has known for only two months– as a maid of honor on her wedding, a wedding with whom..?? ..she's either jumping too high too quick or she's been there longer than what you know.

Second, according to your story, you had been talking to her for about year, and living together for the past two months of your one year talking to her, ring a bell?

 Third, she joined the WMSCOG two months ago –again according to your story, the same last two months you have been living together– and you have been arguing for the past month because of her changes, the bell should be ringing louder. 

In my experience, two months isn't really enough time for a newbie to close him/herself to the outer world just yet. So, if you two lived together for two months, that must still mean something to her and should, still, be very undecided and combative with her own self instead.

Being combative is not a rational behavior of someone who joined two months ago, especially if you are using the scripture to find the truth. She still does not have enough material to be over protective, that takes time. 

According to your story, you went to six studies and kept one Sabbath; in two month of her joining, eight weeks, that's a lot of studies that you did. it feels like if you joined her right after.

If your story is really true, my advise is that you walk away as soon as possible.

[Ms Freedom]

Travis wrote:

MatNeedshelp wrote:

 

 

 

Hi my name's mat and a couple months ago my girlfriend was going through tought times with her job (feeling of being unappreciated) and ended up quiting, the night she made the decision of quiting a member came up to her and convinced her to join the church.

First I thought it was just another church and I went there one "sabbath" day i did about 6 studies and was starting to believe a little, even though i had doubts after every study. I hardly trust things right in front of me , I couldn't just trust someone who was trying to flip my views on religion. I did some research online  and found this site,I watched many videos, read some of the evidence and even bought steve hassan's book, I was convinced this church was fake so I tried to show my girlfriend one of the videos. as soon as i pressed play she shut the screen off and we had one of the hugest arguements of our relationship. This was about a month ago, now i'm at the point where I dont know what to do, i showed her scriptures that should of created doubt in her head because she wont listen to me about anything unless it's in the bible, but even when i show her what's in the bible she takes it the way the poeple at her church tell her to understand and that causes more arguements. *1 We been living together for 2 months now, fighting for a month, and now im moving out on the 31st, i'm afraid when i leave she'll become more involved with the church. I cant let her go because I know its not her fault, No normal person would ever put up with all this, *2 we been talkin for about a year and i'm not willing to throw everything away because of this church.

She's a very combative person and every talk turns into an arguement soon enough when the church is brought up, *3 she doesn't believe anything unless you show it to her right in your face. 

I dont know what to do, help please

 

also its tough to believe the relationship is fake, i asked her who she would want as her maid of honor and she brought up someone from the church and said she's really her only friend etc. she's even about to be one of there weddings

 

 

@Mat, Giving you the benefit of the doubt .. I feel that God is actually helping you get away from a potentially horrible relationship.

First, your "girl" has been a member for only two months and she has already deserted you and whatever friends she had. Also, according to the story, she has already chosen one of the members –that she has known for only two months– as a maid of honor on her wedding, a wedding with whom..?? ..she's either jumping too high too quick or she's been there longer than what you know.

Second, according to your story, you had been talking to her for about year, and living together for the past two months of your one year talking to her, ring a bell?

 Third, she joined the WMSCOG two months ago –again according to your story, the same last two months you have been living together– and you have been arguing for the past month because of her changes, the bell should be ringing louder. 

In my experience, two months isn't really enough time for a newbie to close him/herself to the outer world just yet. So, if you two lived together for two months, that must still mean something to her and should, still, be very undecided and combative with her own self instead.

Being combative is not a rational behavior of someone who joined two months ago, especially if you are using the scripture to find the truth. She still does not have enough material to be over protective, that takes time. 

According to your story, you went to six studies and kept one Sabbath; in two month of her joining, eight weeks, that's a lot of studies that you did. it feels like if you joined her right after.

If your story is really true, my advise is that you walk away as soon as possible.

Travis, I respect your opinion of the swiftness of this, but it was even quicker for my child. He/she was in college and within 2 weeks (yes that's right – 2 WEEKS!) they dropped out of college and moved in with WMSCOG friends. They wouldn't listen to anything we (the parents & siblings) had to say. We were devastated! How could this child that we had raised for 21 years suddenly turn their back on all their friends and family and become a fanantic?! Why would they listen to someone they had only known for 2 weeks and not believe what their parents were saying? We love our child with all our hearts and only want the best for our child. How could this happen? But sadly it is true! Once they get sucked in, all logic goes out the window. Cults work very quickly to secure their recruits and once they get them, they do everything they can to hang onto them. 

Also, the arguments started as soon as we discovered our child had been recruited into WMSCOG. It was crazy the way that they defended the cult (so quickly). Our loving child turned into an argumentative, sarcastic fanatic! It was hard to carry on a conversation without it ending in a heated disagreement. I agree with Mat – you start out trying to keep calm but the whole thing is so crazy that you end up wanting to pull your hair out because they won't listen! I HAVE BEEN IN THOSE SHOES!

Travis, I think you give wise advice, though. This is not an easy situation and you (Mat) need to think very hard whether you are willing to hang on and try to get her out. It may be a long time and it is a constant weight on the mind about how to communicate with this new "cult self". Travis could be right – this may be a wake up call. The cult will manipulate her into believing that you are not the one for her and you may want to assess whether it is worth the pain and agony for a relationship that may be quite lopsided – you giving and walking on eggshells while she just gets in deeper and deeper. Tough – tough decision. My heart goes out to you!

[daluca matthew]

Hi travis thanks for replying so quickly, but let me just clear up some of the issues.

She's a naturally combative person about her beliefs, she always feels very confident about her decisions and it'll take the world to change her mind most of the time

the living situation she's in is very tough aswell. Her mom and dad are married but they hate each other, her dad's already had children outside of the marriage, she ha sno privacy because her sister who is handicapped stays in the room with her and has no chance of moving out, they also share the house with her aunt's family, and there situation is even worse, the point is no one contributes in the house leaving the 2 girls to do all the work, while she has to go college and work while having to deal with verbal abuse from her family

I think the main issue is the house, she uses the church as somewhere to go to be outside of the house, unfortunately. so  you can see why i dont blame her for having such an unhealthy behavior.

she's stil very connected to the outside world, she spends most of her time with me and sometimes we go out with couples.

the person who recruited her is also a big factor, she's the type of person who doesn't take no for an answer, i've cussed her out on a couple occasions and had her number blocked twice, but she still pushes

also travis, i meant i went to 1 sabbath, and on that sabbath i had "solo studies" as they would say where all day from 8am-8pm i was in and out of studies

[daluca matthew]

@Msfreedom 

thanks, i do still love her, she's really my dream girl, i pray for your child as well, i dont know if i could do if i lost my child to it.

I just keep reminding myself it's not her fault, and i constantly try to rebuild the trust she has for me, in the book it says think strategically so i've been trying to control my temper but its tough

The bright side is not everything is perfect, she's actually complained to me about them trying to control the way she dresses, they say she attracts the male members, honestly its' not her fault because she has a very curvy body but she goes to school for fashion, once they really try to control the way she dresses i think she'll finally snap out of it, or maybe come back to my side a little, i'm hoping.

i'm just gonna do my best to make her feel comfortable in what she wears and always make her feel pretty, hopefully if i win a few battles the war wont be too tough.

I hope the best for you and your family!

[soldier]

I don't usually post on these and I'm sure many people here will disagree, but I feel compelled to let you know. As much as you love her and has bad at it will hurt, you have to let her go (ie leave) man. Live your life and let her realize her mistake on her own. I knew my ex wife for several years prior to us dating and getting married. It only took a few months for wms to completely distort her mind and turn her against me and anyone else who didn't fit into what they told her. I'm not religous at all, but I'm very realistic. It will take time to work through the pain you feel, I nearly lost my mind when this occurred. However, I'm still here on the other side, enjoying life for what it is.

Apologies for the length

Good luck man

[MountainMom]

Mat, the people in the church are very nice to her.  That is how they draw a person in and keep them, originally.  Then they use the bond they have with them to manipulate them later.  The main point is money, and turning their new recruit into another recruiter eventually. It always comes to that.   

Travis, Soldier, and Ms.Freedom are giving you very accurate info.  If you aren't patient, you will lose your girl.  If you are patient, you may still lose her.  This is a long haul, and if you haven't decided for sure if she is the girl for you, you better look at this carefully.  I am not saying that to be negative, I am saying it because you have to realize it may be years of this type of dynamic with this girl, and you have to know that it won't be easy.  When you know the journey will be a long one, you prepare accordiingly, that is all I am saying.  This is a marathon, not a sprint.  I think you get the picture. 

If you are staying in this relationship, then I suggest you tell your girl you love the way she looks, and that you trust her, so why is a church member acting like they think you are trying to attract men there by the way you dress?  Don't they trust her?  (Of course we know they are just grooming her for bigger changes, and the way they dress is just one thiing that will be manipulated.)  But I would suggest telling her that you want the girl you fell in love with, and you think she is great just the way she is.  I think if you tell her that you don't want her to change, and that is the reason you have been upset, she might take it better.  And it shouldn't be hard to say that, because it is true, isn't it? 

Good luck, Mat, and please keep checking back with us.  I hope we can help you keep her, but if not, then we can help you cope.  One way or another, we are the people who understand.  Not everyone will because a lot of them have never come accross anything so bizarre as this cult. 

[The Chive]

Mat.. Iam assuming she goes to the church on Fox Chase Rd in Jenkintown? First and foremost, why not ask why the missionary from that church recently left?

[Love'n Honey]

Anyone see a pattern here? Couples (husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend) seem to have the man asking for help about the woman.

[daluca matthew]

@The Chive i was actually there when he announced he was just leaving, i asked all the necessasary questions and still got the same answer, people were jujst in aw in his dedication to the church, in my head i thought it was crazy just how quickly someone can up and move just like that, and that he already has accomadations in other states, that was a huge red flag

another red flag isat my firsat service they banned anoyne from showing the 2011 or 2012 calender and that they should return it immediately, when i saw they made the prediction about 2012 that made alot of sense and was the main reason i left.

I'm just baffled that someone who was once so head strong could get recruited so easily

[daluca matthew]

@Mountainmom i really have no idea what to do right now, i told her since she's starting to change i'm gonna begin my change as well, and i've been pulling away from her just like she has with me, i've stopped accepting anything from her, pretty much focusing on me with any decision i make, which is what she's been telling me to do for weeks now.

She always hated when i hinted that the relationship isn't working, now she's totally changed where she's the one trying to end the relationship, talking about she needs space, when i maybe see her a couple hours out of the day because of work, i'm giving her , her space now tho, even though we are in the same house i'm there for me and she's not a factor, maybe that'll strike a chord in her head

@Thechive are you an ex member in philadelphia?

[MountainMom]

@Mat, what is on the calendars that they didn't want people to see?  I saw nothing on them that they would have to ban.  Did anyone else? 

And Mat, what did the missionary mean when he said he was leaving and had accomodations in another state?  Was he actually  leaving or did he mean he was just transferring?   Don't quite get why he would announce it in church.  I've never heard of anyone leaving the church announcing it there.  But stranger things have happened.  Could you fill me in a little?  Yours is an interesting case. 

I hope you and your girl work it out.  They say don't give them an ultimatum or they will choose the church.  The advice I've heard given is to keep the lines of communication open and don't fight with them.  If you can't do that, you may have to go to plan B. 

[daluca matthew]

@Mountainmom i wasn't apart of the church so i didn't get a calender, but on this site they say they predicted the world ending in 2012, so i'm sure the calender said something about that, thats the only conclusion i could get from that, but i distinctly remembering them to return either the 2011 or 2012 calender and not to show it to anyone

and yes i meant transferring, they told him he's leaving on saturday and his flight was for wednesday of the same week to michigan i think

[Joshua]

Mat, I am going to be very clear with you about this right now. KEEP THE LINES OF COMUNICATION OPEN!!! If this girl really is the girl of your dreams as you have stated then you need to fight for her. I am not trying to offend or put anyone down in our forum here but cutting your losses and leaving is the LAST thing you should do. In fact, put the idea out of your mind.

You are going to go through some of the hardest moments of your life with this. I speak from experience on this. You must resolve to stay the course in order to bring her out of this. She will never be the same and niether will you but hopefully you will be together, wiser, and stronger when this is all over. You will not be able to avoid talking about this cult but when you do talk about it avoid the word cult at all cost. Do not recognize it as a church either. I used the word group a lot and I still do. As you get her further along you may get to a point where you can address it as a control or controlling group. You must keep bringing her reasons to doubt the group. One of the biggest doubts will come when the group keeps trying to convince her that you are bad when all you are going to be trying to do is build her up. It's like the fashion issue that she's dealing with right now. Cudos to you for giving her positive feedback on that. She already seems to have misgivings about the way the group is trying to handle her on that. Do not be surprized about how a strong willed and intelligent person could get caught up in something like this. These kinds of people are who control groups like to target especially if the person is in a moment of weakness emotionally or mentally. It sounds like your girlfriend is both.

Think about what you were told during those studies you took. Do you remember the Sabbath study where you were so confused thinking that everything you might have learned previous to the study might have been just one big set of lies? Do you remember feeling like the WMS might just have the "truth" like they were saying they did? How about this little trick, "Your friends and family are not going to understand because the truth is not in them." Things like this quickly turn a person against their friends, family, and church group thinking that when these folks don't agree with what the WMS said in the teaching then the WMS must have been right about it. Truth is that the WMS is dead wrong and the people trying to reach out are really the ones that are right. Especially because it conflicts with the teachings.

You are going to have to back down from every fight that even looks like it's going to start. You are going to have to swallow your pride so many times (even when you are right) that you'll start thinking it's a career. You need to create a place for her to be able to come to and feel safe when she really starts to doubt the group. They will try to force you two appart anyway they can but you keep providing that safe place for her and eventually she will come out. No one stays in a cult forever! When she does come out she will thank you for not giving up on her. Things will never be like they were but she will be thankful. (PM me if you wish.)

[Too Hungry]

Hey @MatNeedshelp, how's it going? All I can say is, be strong. Some of the people here are here to help. Others…not so much. I'm basically in the same position as you, although my girlfriend has only been in this group for about a month (at least to my knowledge).

Some of the best advice I've gotten was from here (although there are certain people you're better off staying away from…). We share your pain. I had no idea about anything the first time coming here (about a month ago) but once you look around you can get a feel of the situation. That being said, for me and speaking in terms of your thread, Joshua's comment really gave me a lot of hope. You've got to keep the communication lines open between the two of you. This really helped me out. I've just recently got back in contact with my girl and I'm really trying to keep things going between us. I know she's the one for me and I don't want to lose her. Communication! So important! Keep the lines open with her and be there for her. You've got to fight this. It's been an uphill battle for me but I feel the tide is slowly changing.

Take Joshua's advice, just communicate, the rest will come at the right time (if you need more advice, PM me I can point you in the direction of some really helpful people). Like I said, I've just recently got back in contact with my girlfriend and we've beem talking! I can tell you right now, there are people who have been in the same position as us and really want to help you. This is all still new to me and I'm very much in the same position as you. The ones that really want to help are sincere, you can tell. And they're the ones who you can rely on for good advice. They're the ones who actually explain things and help out in a way that's advantageous.

Anyways I wish you the best because I know how crazy it can all feel.

Regards

Tom

[Omer]

@Matneedshelp

My apologies for sounding the devil’s advocate, but MAYBE God is giving you a chance to get out of an abusive relationship. I am sorry for using the abusive but being in a relationship with someone who readily sells you out and/or not compromise nor listens could be pretty harmful for the other person’s sanity. Today, you are dealing with this issue, tomorrow it could be anything. I would understand a person to be patient and understanding for another as long as you are blood related or married. But, a girlfriend that is busting your chops and leaves you high and dry so easily would be bad news. It By all means, keep the communication channels open, try helping her not get sucked into their awful gimmicks; however, you may want to consider going separate ways. I understand you love her but it feels like you might actually have a great deal of pity for her and sometimes, they go pretty much on the same line.

[The Chive]

MatNeedshelp wrote:

 

@Thechive are you an ex member in philadelphia?

 Just the thorn in the side……