[emil]

The WMSCOG makes a big deal out of two things; keeping the Sabbath and celebrating the Passover. For both things, I understand they teach that the catholic church abolished them in the 4th century.

I am starting this thread to discuss the issue of the Sabbath day and about when and how it was abolished by the catholic church. I request wmscog members and former members to weigh in. 

[emil]

[emil]

The time zones is not the issue. The location of the prime meridian and consequently the IDL is. This was historically way after the commandments were given. The present location makes you guys several hours behind Israel. If the Atlantic were chosen for the IDL, you would have been many hours ahead of Israel. Your Saturday would have been what is your Friday today. That is one of the reasons why I believe that the Saturday sabbath cannot be absolute. Because there is no absolute God-defined Saturday except in and around Israel. If you adopt that Saturday, it will have to be during the same hours when it is in Israel or more correctly Mt. Sinai which is probably the same.

That is the first of my arguments. The second is the fact that if God wanted us to keep the exact same day of the week all over the world, He would have seen to it that it was practically possible. He hasn't done that. You guys sitting in the developed west have no idea what it is like in the rest of the world.

[Simon]

The IDL is directly tied to timezones your argument remains flawed

hardship is a bad reason too much of the world even believing in Jesus causes hardship by your logic if God wanted you to believe in Jesus he would have made it possible in those places

[emil]

Timezones are the result of the IDL. Your day of the week is a direct result of the choice of IDL.

[Simon]

Timezones are from the earths geometric properties.

[emil]

Oh OK. I get what you're trying to say. Now try to understand what I'm trying to say.

Correct that timezones relative to Israel (or 0 meridian or say between you and me) are based on the geometric properties of the Earth. But do you realize that when it is Saturday in Hawai, it is Sunday in Kiribati and the time is the same, they being on the same meridian? The time zone is determined by the meridian but the day is not. The day is mainly determined by where man decided to place the prime meridian. This was decided by common agreement by the maritime powers who were all centered around Europe. Some variations of the day exist because of the deliberate diversions on the IDL.

If the IDL ran down the Atlantic ocean instead of the Pacific (choice of man either way), Your absolute time difference relative to other places would be the same as today. Only the day would have been advanced. What I mean is, if you are at a place where you are say 10 hours behind Jerusalem today, if the meridian ran through the Atlantic, you would have been 14 hours ahead of Jerusalem. Technically speaking, being 10 hours behind or 14 hours ahead is exactly the same thing except for the date. Do you understand my point?

[Simon]

yes 10/14 I get that but either way there is consistency its not like there is a country say 48 hours ahead or behind Israel (and even if their were we could still calculate what day is correct.) 

If for some reason the United States wanted to fall on tomorow and put me in Jerusalem +14 it would still be consistent but Saturday wouldn't become Sunday and Sabbath would fall on Saturday still, Saturday would just come sooner.

 

Now say The United States wanted to shift to say Jerusalem +59 THEN we'd have a calculation issue Sabbath would be shifted to Monday because that would be the day in the United States 14 hours before it was Saturday in Israel.

[MountainMom]

When a member is somewhere where he can't be at a Saturday service, what are the requirements that he must do that Saturday?  I know they have to have special permission to go someplace where they can't be at a service, but I am asking what are the times they must pray, how long must the prayers be, etc.  Simon, you answered it briefly ini another post, so thank you for that.  I hope I am not being redundant, but I still haven't seen anything specific in the Bible about prayer times if you aren't present.  If you are in another time zone, do you go by that, etc.? 

  This is important as I have something coming up that I need the information for.  Also, what will happen to a member if they don't keep the exact times?  I think I know, but want to see what ex members have to say, as they are the ones with the direct knowledge.

[Simon]

I don't know the exact details if possible they want you to go to another Zion (which is strange with the whole no communication rule lol)

 

They want to address and a phone number to give to "assembly" who passes it to the other Zion who calls you…

 

But either way you keep prayer time for where you are  (or at least I  did, I went to my sisters wedding and they couldn't get me the info in time)

[MountainMom]

If there is no zion where the member is, then what are the assigned prayer times?

[Simon]

depends on the day and time of year

9 and 3 

or 9 3 and 8 (Sat and Tues)

 

10 and 230

10 230 and 730 (Sat and Tues)

[Simon]

depends on the day and time of year

9 and 3 

or 9 3 and 8 (Sat and Tues)

 

10 and 230

10 230 and 730 (Sat and Tues)

[MountainMom]

So 10 and 2:30 is acceptable certain times of the year?  What is the breakdown in months I wonder?  When can it only be 9 and 3?  And why in the world must it be so regimented if they change it when it suits them?  I am trying to understand why it absolutely has to be at those times.

[MountainMom]

So 10 and 2:30 is acceptable certain times of the year?  What is the breakdown in months I wonder?  When can it only be 9 and 3?  And why in the world must it be so regimented if they change it when it suits them?  I am trying to understand why it absolutely has to be at those times.

[Simon]

its because the prayer times are based on breaking day light into 12 equal segments 

3rd and 9th 

[Simon]

its because the prayer times are based on breaking day light into 12 equal segments 

3rd and 9th 

[MountainMom]

But they aren't changed each day even though sunrise and sunset change every day.  So once again, I don't get it.

[MountainMom]

But they aren't changed each day even though sunrise and sunset change every day.  So once again, I don't get it.

[Simon]

its averaging them out over the course of half a year

Passover-Trumpets if I remember correctly is the 9 3 and 8 

[Simon]

its averaging them out over the course of half a year

Passover-Trumpets if I remember correctly is the 9 3 and 8 

[MountainMom]

Ok, thanks for trying to help me.  I still don't get how they figure the times, and they obviously don't quote Bible verse for that or it would be black and white.  So it's arbitrary, I think.  Done by man's rules.