- Topic
The WMSCOG accuses other churches of “Idol Worship” in regards to the Cross. They seem to think that even displaying it in church is evil.
Doesn’t the Ten Commandments teach us not to bear false witness?
None of the Christian churches I have been to have ever taught us to worship the Cross. The Cross is used as a symbol to remind us of the great sacrifice that was made for us by Christ Jesus. This is commanded in the Bible.
The Bible says not to make any symbol to a false god and worship it. Make no brazen images. The Cross is a symbol for the REAL GOD and even so we do not worship it. Now that is not to say that some people don’t cross the line on this. If someone is worshipping the Cross they need to be corrected and if we see this worship happening and we don’t help correct it then I believe we are guilty as well. Having a Cross around also serves as a reminder that we are to love the one true God. It’s like a husband asking his wife not to love any other man. She carries a picture of her husband around with her as a reminder that he loves her. If she chose not to carry the picture she might be more easily swayed. Worse would be if she carried a picture of another man. (Jesus vs. Ahnsahnghong) This would be absolutely wrong on all counts.
Gods ways are mysterious. He uses things that we would view as vile and/or worthless to reveal his glory. He uses the stone that was disguarded by men as the Chief Corner Stone. He uses something viewed as a detestable instrument of death to reveal his glory.
Lets look at what the Bible really says about the Cross.
1 Corinthians 1:17-18 Paul states that word of the Cross is the Power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:23 describes the Cross as the Wisdom of God.
Colossians 2:15 describes the Cross as the Glory of God.
The Cross is described as Gods Wisdom, Power, and Glory. This object is viewed by man as a detestable instrument of death that was used to kill Jesus. Only man would have such a limited view as this. Gods ways are what we are striving for. The Cross was made a symbol of Gods power by God not by man.
Many people will bring up the message of the symbol of the bronze snake. God instructed the creation of the bronze snake as a symbol to lead people to him. Men twisted it around and many started worshipping the snake instead of what it represented. In Christian churches we are taught this lesson to not worship symbols but only worship the one true God. To make the statement that other churches are “Idol worshippers” is a gross defamation of character. You shall not bear false witness.
God ordered the making of many symbols in the Bible but I think that I will save this for another post. What God has sanctified we should NEVER try to remove. His ways are not our ways. Keep the reminder of God well within view at all times. It’s a reminder of the love he has for us and a testament to the fact that we belong to him. By the way, it’s a very real possibility that the seal of God is represented by the cross. The word does reveal this if you are truly seeking.
The bronze serpent was a shadow of the cross of Christ. When God first ordained its making, it was used rightly and was beneficial. It only became a problem when the Israelites started worshipping it.
The cross is an object that reminds us of what God has done for us. Every time I slip backward, the cross as a reminder of His love, draws me back to Him.
The basic issue is whether a person worships the cross or not. Possession of the cross, kissing it, holding on to it while you pray, etc., even venerating it, can only be wrong if you are worshipping it in your heart. And that is something to do with intent, which only God can judge, not anyone of us.
But again intent of idolatry is never worshiping the object
And the command doesn't say with intent of the heart. It says not to bow down to it. If I bowed to a picture of Zahng though I'm not worshipping the picture in my heart, just following along with whoever, that it is still breaking the command of "Thou shalt not commit idolatry" it's paraphrased……..
I'm going to search and see if there is anything plain about worshipping in the Scripture.
Gen 24:26-27 From these verses it appears that she didn't worship God when she bowed. With "bow down" and "worship" being seperated with an "and" implies they are different. I think worshipping means to praise someone/thing and give him/her/it glory and credit.
The whole cross thing is just silly to me. Unless you have an IQ of 20, you don't need a cross to remember how Jesus died for us. God gave us intelligent brains to be able to remember that fact, as well as many others.
I once had a friend tell me, "Oh, but the cross is sacred!" I said, Jesus is sacred, not the cross.
It's another issue just like Saturday/Sunday that Christians will never agree on.
I don't know the truth of the matter, but neither does anyone else. I just know the cross makes me uncomfortable. And I know God wouldn't wish for me to do anything that makes me uncomfortable. However, I don't think that someone is going to go to Hell for using the cross. I think God is quite reasonable as he knows that we don't have all the answers.
We will all know the truth in the spirit world. I don't think we are meant to know everything on Earth.
Joshua, I am quite familiar with the Bible. It is the result of my many years of research that has led me to my opinion..
Lol, do I really have to quote.
Okay give me some time to go to the WMSCOG website and grab those verses about this.
One way to look at it is that, at Jesus' crucifixion, the cross became the instrument through which God won victory over the devil. It is like the bat used by the MVP. The bat would have no value by itself. It is not really the bat but the player's skill that won the victory, but the bat was still the instrument that was used. It then becomes a collector's item for fans.
Because they can't hang the MVP on their wall, they'll just hang his bat or the replica. I wonder if the seals kept any of the grenade keys or the round casings from when they killed Osama.
renita.payno wrote:
Because they can't hang the MVP on their wall, they'll just hang his bat or the replica. I wonder if the seals kept any of the grenade keys or the round casings from when they killed Osama.
LMAO Renita! I love the way you put things some times!
I will provide some bible verses. But remember, much of what I believe has come from real-life. I feel the Bible has only lead me astray thus far. So realize that a lot of my thoughts, ideas, opinions will be different from those who are more biblically-based.
To me, one of the most disturbing facts is how the cross has been used with many false prophets such as:
TD Jakes
Kat Kerr
Oden Hetrick
Choo Thomas
Daniel Ekechukwu
I'll specifically mention Mary K. Baxter. I even bought and read her book, "A Divine Revelation of Hell," and when I was 8 or 9, I went to one of her seminars. My bible study teachers at the time thought that she was awesome. After her "powerful" sermon, people went into total craziness. Speaking in tongues (hogwash), jiving back and forth, jumping up and down. Basically just acting like mental patients. Even back then I knew, "okay, something isn't right here." God gave me strong intuition at a young age. But worse of all, when everyone smiled, their teeth had all these gold crosses on them. People took that as a sure sign that she was telling the truth. Well.. .what about me?
Interesting enough- my teeth didn't turn to crosses.
This was supposed to be Holy right? Well I screamed and screamed as though someone was trying to kill me. Something was just not right.
In retrospect, this is nothing that a young child should've seen, so it traumatized me. I don't know what those crazy religious teachers were thinking. It's been the religious leaders/teachers who have been most "iffy" in my life. I mean I'm certainly not going to listen to anything they say about God anymore.
While after that crazy, dementing experience- I still wasn't quite turned off to the cross. But then when I began studying with the wmscog, all the anti-cross literature they showed me seemed to resinate with me. It brought me back to the crazy experience at Mary K Baxter's seminar. It made a lot of sense at the time.
Now that I am out of the wsmcog. I am quite confused about what I should believe in the bible and what I shouldn't. I don't think it's all truth, and I don't think that is how truth is attained. I have accepted that I will never know everything in this lifetime, and nor will anyone else. As long as I have God's safety and protection, I am happy. He's been protecting me my whole life- I have many stories that can attest to that.
So while I feel that I have no right to tell anyone to not use the cross, I know that it is not for me. I'm uncomfortable with it. I think the cross is rather silly- as far as how big a part it plays in christianity- but I will not say anything about it. I think no one honestly knows if its right or not right, and I don't think God can hold us accoutable for knowledge that there is no way we can possibly have.
But if I don't want to use it or like it or have much at all to do with it- that is my choice. If someone wants to wear it- that is their choice- they aren't hurting me by it.
But here: I will half-heartedly string a list of verses together for Joshua:
Acts 5:30
The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom YOU slew, hanging him upon a stake.
Acts 10:39
And we are witnesses of all the things he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem; but they also did away with him by hanging him on a stake.
Acts 13:29
When, now, they had accomplished all the things written about him, they took him down from the stake and laid him in a memorial tomb.
Galations 3:13
Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hanged upon a stake.”
1 Peter 2:24
He himself bore our sins in his own body upon the stake, in order that we might be done with sins and live to righteousness. And “by his stripes YOU were healed.
Galatations 3:13
Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hanged upon a stake.”
Deuteronomy 21: 22,23
<sup class="verseNum">22“And in case there comes to be in a man a sin deserving the sentence of death, and he has been put to death, and you have hung him upon a stake,<sup class="verseNum">23his dead body should not stay all night on the stake; but you should by all means bury him on that day, because something accursed of God is the one hung up; and you must not defile your soil, which Jehovah your God is giving you as an inheritance.
2 Corinthians 6: 14-18
Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness?<sup class="verseNum">15Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Be′li‧al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever?<sup class="verseNum">16And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.”<sup class="verseNum">17“‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take YOU in.’”<sup class="verseNum">18“‘And I shall be a father to YOU, and YOU will be sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah the Almighty.”
1 Corinthians 10:14
Therefore, my beloved ones, flee from idolatry.<sup class="verseNum">15I speak as to men with discernment; judge for yourselves what I say.
Exodus 20: 4-6
“You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth.<sup class="verseNum">5You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me;<sup class="verseNum">6but exercising loving‐kindness toward the thousandth generation in the case of those who love me and keep my commandments.
One day in my class, we were taking apart a mother board. I said, "Look everyone it's Jesus!" They looked around. Then one person said, "What're you talking about?" I showed them the battery I found on the mother board that had a big plus sign on it. I said, "See! It's a Jesus battery." Everyone laughed. I was making a joke about how Christians see a cross and try to turn into something Jesus related. They stir their coffee and see a pattern of a cross in the cup. They look in the sky and see a cloud shaped like a cross. Don't let these discoveries happen after they've prayed, then they'll really get excited. Lol. =)
I think Christians make too much of a big deal when it comes to the cross or things that aren't the cross but look like it such as a cloud.
He said the message of the cross is the power of God not the cross itself. Because you say the cross is the power of God, you say that it is also the wisdom of God with 1 Cor 1:24 but as I've stated, the message of the cross is the power of God, not the cross itself. There is no glory in the cross being described in the 3rd verse. When Jesus was nailed to cross He died on it with all our sin. This is the message of the cross. The point is that Jesus paid for our sin not that He died on the cross. He needed to die for us as the perfect sacrifice whether it be by hanging, fire, crux, or otherwise. The reason Jesus died on the cross is because that's how He was prophesied to die. He died 1st because we needed a perfect sacrifice. He died on the cross because that's how God chose His death. If Jesus would have lived on the cross then we would all still be guilty of our sin.
It's like my teachers used to say in HS. "You're a student athelete. This means you're a student 1st and an athelete 2nd. Focus on being a student then an athelete." Jesus died on the cross. He died 1st, the cross part is far less important.
I completely disagree on this literal cross issue. Cross equal death. Cross equal all Jesus accomplished when he died. We are free now, if we accept him but I don’t believe a literal cross is of any value. When Paul speaks of the cross, I am yet to find a verse clearly stating we need to hold on to a literal cross. However, if a literal cross is what one needs other than the bible to keep Jesus’ death a reality, then who am I to disqualify the person. He was sacrificed for us. Wow! Just saying that gives me goose bumps. What he did is what is important. The power lies in his resurrection not on the literal cross.
Sarah2013 wrote:
I completely disagree on this literal cross issue. Cross equal death. Cross equal all Jesus accomplished when he died. We are free now, if we accept him but I don't believe a literal cross is of any value. When Paul speaks of the cross, I am yet to find a verse clearly stating we need to hold on to a literal cross. However, if a literal cross is what one needs other than the bible to keep Jesus' death a reality, then who am I to disqualify the person. He was sacrificed for us. Wow! Just saying that gives me goose bumps. What he did is what is important. The power lies in his resurrection not on the literal cross.
Well spoken, well said, I agree 100%
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.