- Topic
This comment was originally made by WMS brother on 1988 End of the World Flyer, and has been moved here for further discussion:
WMS brother says:
There is a difference between a false prophet, and the mercy of God. Here is the story of Jonah, which you referred to, but did not explain:
Jonah 3:4 "… "Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.""
Jonah 3:10 "When God saw … how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened."
Jonah 4:1 "But to Jonah this seemed very wrong, and he became angry"
Jonah 4:4 "But the Lord replied, “Is it right for you to be angry?”
Jonah 4:10-11 "… the Lord said … I … have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people”
*I encourage reading the entire story to understand the full context of God’s mercy. I have only posted the verses I think are most relevant, please consult the full version.
There are other examples of other kingdoms whom God promised to destroy, too, but they were spared.
Like Jonah, I once also said that it is wrong for God, or any prophet, to proclaim something, and then not deliver on that promise.
I was angry to listen to liars, and we are also humiliated when what we say does not come true.
But there is a difference between the prophet who is false because what he says does not come true, and the prophet who repeats the already true word of God whom then decides to show mercy.
Prophets who are false use a made up story. This relies on God acting to prove the legitimacy of the prophet. The biblical examples also have ungodly agendas such as introducing paganism, or changing the law.
True prophets repeat the word of God verbatim. This does not rely on God acting to prove the legitimacy of the prophet, because the prophet is -already- doing everything correctly -prior- to the prophecy. Biblical examples show righteous agendas such as speaking up against pagan customs and lamenting over how the law has been changed.
In conclusion, God showing mercy is his providence.
—
I used to be a pagan. Now it is my great joy to follow the guidance of Jesus Christ, who has a new name just as he promised. I came for the education, I stayed because of faith. I would not take such mercy for granted after he so gracefully delayed our destruction, which was in fact prophesied.
No one should ever apologize for repeating the words of God, even if the whole world hates them. Even if everyone in the whole world worships the beast.
Don’t you know where it is written, that both of these things are true?
renita.payno wrote:
You can tell because Scripture won't make sense. Especially since the COG uses other verses to explain a verse. But what I found interesting is it's only the COG who has taught me any fulfillment. For the many years I have been in the church (I'm what "my people" call a pew baby) it was never explained through any sermon why we believe Jesus is God in the flesh. It wasn't until I started studying at the COG that I saw through Scripture Jesus must be God. Right now, even though I have concerns, they have the most credibility*. Some of what they are saying might not make sense but a vast majority of what many other people teach don't make sense either. Even the Eunich* needed someone to explain the Scripture to him.
I find that very sad. Makes me wonder what kind of church you were in that you didn't get any of that. I've had a lot of it at my churches and study groups–prophecy and in depth study of the Bible and such. Well, I guess often times it's not preached in the main weekly service because the pastor chooses subjects that are broad enough for the whole congregation, and honestly not everyone is interested in this stuff. But there are Sunday school, midweek, and other services and study groups that provide that kind of study. You just have to go.
renita.payno wrote:
You can tell because Scripture won't make sense. Especially since the COG uses other verses to explain a verse. But what I found interesting is it's only the COG who has taught me any fulfillment. For the many years I have been in the church (I'm what "my people" call a pew baby) it was never explained through any sermon why we believe Jesus is God in the flesh. It wasn't until I started studying at the COG that I saw through Scripture Jesus must be God. Right now, even though I have concerns, they have the most credibility*. Some of what they are saying might not make sense but a vast majority of what many other people teach don't make sense either. Even the Eunich* needed someone to explain the Scripture to him.
I find that very sad. Makes me wonder what kind of church you were in that you didn't get any of that. I've had a lot of it at my churches and study groups–prophecy and in depth study of the Bible and such. Well, I guess often times it's not preached in the main weekly service because the pastor chooses subjects that are broad enough for the whole congregation, and honestly not everyone is interested in this stuff. But there are Sunday school, midweek, and other services and study groups that provide that kind of study. You just have to go.
I went to Sunday school, children's school, young adult school, all of that. My family owns 2 churches in Southern California. Even when I asked my grandma about Easter (only because of what the COG told me) she said she knew it was wrong. My family knows the Scripture meaning they can recall many verses from memory. However, none of them has taken any time to teach me why Jesus.. I was raised Apostolic. Even still they don't see the need to show me Scripture like you're doing. They don't see the need to explain anything. They believe in blind faith. If the COG is so bad, when is someone going to tell me what's right? Even in Scripture it says, how can they hear without somone preaching to them? I have been asking over & over to many people, teach me! If I need to be saved, then save me! How can a child know what's good if the child is only shown what's bad. Frankly, I'm tired of debating about what the COG teaches. I want to know what does God teach. I don't care if you don't believe Koreans should marry a random American in Zion. I don't care if you think Mother isn't the Christ. It's time to show me what to believe in. What did God teach in the prophecies? How does God describe the way to enter Heaven? With the knowledge I have, I will question. But I don't see the point in referring to the WMSCOG anymore. I want to refer to God.
I went to Sunday school, children's school, young adult school, all of that. My family owns 2 churches in Southern California. Even when I asked my grandma about Easter (only because of what the COG told me) she said she knew it was wrong. My family knows the Scripture meaning they can recall many verses from memory. However, none of them has taken any time to teach me why Jesus.. I was raised Apostolic. Even still they don't see the need to show me Scripture like you're doing. They don't see the need to explain anything. They believe in blind faith. If the COG is so bad, when is someone going to tell me what's right? Even in Scripture it says, how can they hear without somone preaching to them? I have been asking over & over to many people, teach me! If I need to be saved, then save me! How can a child know what's good if the child is only shown what's bad. Frankly, I'm tired of debating about what the COG teaches. I want to know what does God teach. I don't care if you don't believe Koreans should marry a random American in Zion. I don't care if you think Mother isn't the Christ. It's time to show me what to believe in. What did God teach in the prophecies? How does God describe the way to enter Heaven? With the knowledge I have, I will question. But I don't see the point in referring to the WMSCOG anymore. I want to refer to God.
renita.payno wrote:
I went to Sunday school, children's school, young adult school, all of that. My family owns 2 churches in Southern California. Even when I asked my grandma about Easter (only because of what the COG told me) she said she knew it was wrong. My family knows the Scripture meaning they can recall many verses from memory. However, none of them has taken any time to teach me why Jesus.. I was raised Apostolic. Even still they don't see the need to show me Scripture like you're doing. They don't see the need to explain anything. They believe in blind faith.
I wish they had met your needs better. It would have been important for your whole future.
Maybe it's because I came to faith later (after high school), and it was important for me to have everything tested and explained and proven (as much as you can with these things). With my own kids and those we teach at church I make it a point to address these things–what we believe and why. I guess there's still a chance that my kids will still miss something they need, but I sure hope not.
If the COG is so bad, when is someone going to tell me what's right? Even in Scripture it says, how can they hear without somone preaching to them? I have been asking over & over to many people, teach me! If I need to be saved, then save me! How can a child know what's good if the child is only shown what's bad. Frankly, I'm tired of debating about what the COG teaches. I want to know what does God teach. I don't care if you don't believe Koreans should marry a random American in Zion. I don't care if you think Mother isn't the Christ. It's time to show me what to believe in. What did God teach in the prophecies? How does God describe the way to enter Heaven? With the knowledge I have, I will question. But I don't see the point in referring to the WMSCOG anymore. I want to refer to God.
I like how you expressed that. You've got a good attitude in seeking the truth. And I agree, it's not enough to just know what is wrong, you also need to know what is right. In fact, it's more important to know what is right than what is wrong. Think of a banker. If they know all the details of a legitimate $20 bill, they can pick out a counterfeit bill no matter what the errors in the counterfeit may be.
Even though we have been discussing how the wmscog gets things wrong, I hope that within the discussions, you see us trying to point out what is right. However, in this forum you have a variety of perspectives–Jewish, Christian (both Catholic and Protestant), and wmscog. It's going to be important for you to read the Bible on your own, use the brain God gave you, and pray for understanding, to help you sort it all out. I'd be very happy to help in any way possible (and I'm sure the others are too, though we have different views :).
May I suggest you take your questions, one at a time (such as "How does God describe the way to enter heaven?"), and start new topics where we can discuss them.
renita.payno wrote:
I went to Sunday school, children's school, young adult school, all of that. My family owns 2 churches in Southern California. Even when I asked my grandma about Easter (only because of what the COG told me) she said she knew it was wrong. My family knows the Scripture meaning they can recall many verses from memory. However, none of them has taken any time to teach me why Jesus.. I was raised Apostolic. Even still they don't see the need to show me Scripture like you're doing. They don't see the need to explain anything. They believe in blind faith.
I wish they had met your needs better. It would have been important for your whole future.
Maybe it's because I came to faith later (after high school), and it was important for me to have everything tested and explained and proven (as much as you can with these things). With my own kids and those we teach at church I make it a point to address these things–what we believe and why. I guess there's still a chance that my kids will still miss something they need, but I sure hope not.
If the COG is so bad, when is someone going to tell me what's right? Even in Scripture it says, how can they hear without somone preaching to them? I have been asking over & over to many people, teach me! If I need to be saved, then save me! How can a child know what's good if the child is only shown what's bad. Frankly, I'm tired of debating about what the COG teaches. I want to know what does God teach. I don't care if you don't believe Koreans should marry a random American in Zion. I don't care if you think Mother isn't the Christ. It's time to show me what to believe in. What did God teach in the prophecies? How does God describe the way to enter Heaven? With the knowledge I have, I will question. But I don't see the point in referring to the WMSCOG anymore. I want to refer to God.
I like how you expressed that. You've got a good attitude in seeking the truth. And I agree, it's not enough to just know what is wrong, you also need to know what is right. In fact, it's more important to know what is right than what is wrong. Think of a banker. If they know all the details of a legitimate $20 bill, they can pick out a counterfeit bill no matter what the errors in the counterfeit may be.
Even though we have been discussing how the wmscog gets things wrong, I hope that within the discussions, you see us trying to point out what is right. However, in this forum you have a variety of perspectives–Jewish, Christian (both Catholic and Protestant), and wmscog. It's going to be important for you to read the Bible on your own, use the brain God gave you, and pray for understanding, to help you sort it all out. I'd be very happy to help in any way possible (and I'm sure the others are too, though we have different views :).
May I suggest you take your questions, one at a time (such as "How does God describe the way to enter heaven?"), and start new topics where we can discuss them.
genny wrote:
Thanks shimon ๐
shimon wrote:
We don't know what % of Nineveh repented either.
No, we don't know the %, but we do know it must have been a lot because of this verse,
Jonah 3:5
"The Ninevites believed God. A fast was proclaimed, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth."
Putting on Sackcloth is external God looks internal. Frankly though I have no answer to this question either way and I feel that none of us is qualified to discuss this topic as none of us were there.
genny wrote:
Thanks shimon ๐
shimon wrote:
We don't know what % of Nineveh repented either.
No, we don't know the %, but we do know it must have been a lot because of this verse,
Jonah 3:5
"The Ninevites believed God. A fast was proclaimed, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth."
Putting on Sackcloth is external God looks internal. Frankly though I have no answer to this question either way and I feel that none of us is qualified to discuss this topic as none of us were there.
None of us were at Mt. Sinai…..
None of us were at Mt. Sinai…..
I was talking about 1988 of which there is no documentation Mt Sinai there is.
I was talking about 1988 of which there is no documentation Mt Sinai there is.
shimon wrote:
I was talking about 1988 of which there is no documentation Mt Sinai there is.
What kind of documentation would you look for about 1988?
shimon wrote:
I was talking about 1988 of which there is no documentation Mt Sinai there is.
What kind of documentation would you look for about 1988?
Something more than a flyer that could or could not be an accurate representation of what was passed out. Something detailing events.
Something more than a flyer that could or could not be an accurate representation of what was passed out. Something detailing events.
Do you mean you want more evidence that Ahn or his church made an end of the world prediction for 1988?
Do you mean you want more evidence that Ahn or his church made an end of the world prediction for 1988?
I want more diffinitive context total
I want more diffinitive context total
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