[Braven]

Hi everyone,

I became involved in the wmscog at my campus. I was approached by two young Korean missionaries who asked if I knew of god the mother. Being overly pro-feminist, I was eager to hear of this. These meetings lasted for a long time, and they always asked me to get baptized. I consistently researched their group, skeptical, but this church was not like the ones I had seen described. This branch never lied to me and they told me who Ahnsahnhong was before I was baptized.

Along the way I learned my friend was also involved with this same branch and she pushed me a little too hard to take passover. My boyfriend – who I knew long before I even heard of this church – is Korean and he researched the church heavily on Korean websites for me. He told me that if I kept with the church, he would break up with me and that I should not take passover. So, my friend and my mentor texted me furiously on Passover day, saying that it was okay and that my boyfriend wouldn’t leave me.

I became nervous about the church when my friend essentially said “screw your boyfriend, Passover is more important “. I understand them – they are so involved that they are fearful of me not being protected by passover.

Yet, I feel very happy with the church and I am ashamed that I missed passover, so I have not been involved with them since. Still, I wonder if my branch is different? They don’t act like I’ve seen described. I made several studies and while I don’t like that they say they can’t answer some of my questions until I meet certain study requirements, a lot if what they say makes sense to me.

Is this group known for expressing disapproval when you can’t make certain church events or services? I do work a lot, and whenever I said I couldn’t go to something they seemed that way and I always felt horrible. But I always think people are mad at me so I’m not sure if that was just me…

Part of me wants to go back because my branch seems much better than what I have read. But I wanted to check what others had to say about their behavior and if I should really listen to my boyfriend.

[Braven]

[Braven]

That’s not the basis of what I’m asking. Is every branch really so different? I’ve heard weird things about the Jersey branch and some others, but this church seems so upfront about everything. I’m sure they’d be happy to take my money, haha.

There are weird branches of every church. Would my branch be considered “cult-like”, too? I have so many people telling me so many different things that I’m a bit confused.

[Braven]

Oh, I have no idea. I didn’t realize there were that many there. I’m a Canadian so I never really gave much thought to an American branch. My apologies. Just what I heard is that whichever branch demands a lot of time from the members and that they keep them deprived of sleep -which I’m pretty sure mine doesn’t do.

[Braven]

That and very late study sessions that go on at the wee hours of the morning. Plus they demand that and going to late night service.

How is it idol worship? There’s no symbols in the church I went to.

[Joshua]

You said the studies were long. Did they tell you anything like, “Your family and friends will not understand this because the truth is not in them?” Have they placed a higher importance on your spiritual family as opposed to your physical family? Have they tried to make you choose between god and your boyfriend? These are just a few of the warning signs that you might be involved in a cult. How about the idea that they are the only ones with the truth? Any of this ring a bell?

[Joshua]

In your research of this group what have you discovered? Most people don’t do any research so if you’ve started then you’re ahead of the curve.

[Braven]

Joshua: All of that except one, really. But from what I understand, doesn’t every church claim to have the truth? And yeah… They always talked about a spiritual family and that Jesus chose his spiritual family over his physical family. Which I never really bought because Jesus preaching doesn’t mean he abandoned his mother, which is how they tried to make it sound. And I guess they did try to make me choose god over my boyfriend. But I thought that was typical of religion.

loocpoc: that makes sense to me. I guess I understand. It’s hard to grasp because my dad is Catholic and that’s my only experience with religion aside from this church.

[Braven]

I discovered that they supposedly predicted the end of the world three times( didn’t startle me much because I’ve met Jehovah Witnesses) and something about Big Shine FM that took me no where. I wanted to research their history facts, but after a day of classes I can never remember the details of what they told me in one study session. I saw some of Professor Tak’s video but it focused too much on the Moonies for me to understand and relate. I saw a lot of WMS members spamming boards that say negative things and thus more he-said she-said than anything useful

[Simon]

ACTUALLY Herbert Armstrong taught an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT feast set.

He also teaches the Flesh and Blood of Chrsit is NOT Passover therefore that is a false comparison.

As far as the actual question people who missed both first and second Passover have been continuing to come no problem.

[Simon]

loocpoc wrote:

Braven wrote:

Joshua: All of that except one, really. But from what I understand, doesn't every church claim to have the truth? And yeah… They always talked about a spiritual family and that Jesus chose his spiritual family over his physical family. Which I never really bought because Jesus preaching doesn't mean he abandoned his mother, which is how they tried to make it sound. And I guess they did try to make me choose god over my boyfriend. But I thought that was typical of religion.

loocpoc: that makes sense to me. I guess I understand. It's hard to grasp because my dad is Catholic and that's my only experience with religion aside from this church.

 Brazen: I have lots of friends who are Catholic.  My suggestion, find whats right for you. Just because they celebrate holidays in a book doesnt make them right.

And because the Catholic Church celebrates holidays opposed by their holy book it makes them wrong. Anti-Christ or not Ahnsanghong being Christ or not even Jesus being Christ or not.

[Simon]

God clearly said don’t worship me as pagans do,

[Simon]

Jubilee wrote:

shimon wrote:

ACTUALLY Herbert Armstrong taught an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT feast set.

He also teaches the Flesh and Blood of Chrsit is NOT Passover therefore that is a false comparison.

As far as the actual question people who missed both first and second Passover have been continuing to come no problem.

I beg to differ with you Shimon,  I have been doing allot of research.  My salvation depends on testing everything.

http://rcg.org/books/ghdoph.html 

If you go to this web site and scroll down to the title:  "God's Times and Laws"  They explain everything to about at least 98% of wmscog. 

Nope different calendar

Compare

Armstrong……………….Ahnsahnghong

Passover…………………Passover

Unleavened Bread……Unleavened Bread

<NOTHING>………….First Fruits

Pentecost………………..Pentecost

Trumpets……………….Trumpets

Atonement……………Atonement

Tabernacles………….Tabernacles

Greatest Day………..<NOTHING>

 

Armstrong also taught Sunset Theory

loocpoc wrote:

shimon wrote:

God clearly said don't worship me as pagans do,

 Then why do you worship 2 men and a woman?

I don't

loocpoc wrote:

Just be jewish… it is easier… :-D.. We dont believe in hell or the devil!

Or the promises of Yehovah through Isaiah Jeremiah Ezekiel et. al

[Simon]

Nope Ahnsahnghong/Jesus and Zahng Gil Jah are TWO people not THREE.

 

As for the promises that's not the promises to which I refer.  By the way it is very unlikely you will rededicate the temple in a few years you aren't even close to getting the temple mount yet. Then it takes years to build it once you have it back.

[Simon]

loocpoc wrote:

shimon wrote:

Nope Ahnsahnghong/Jesus and Zahng Gil Jah are TWO people not THREE.

 

As for the promises that's not the promises to which I refer.  By the way it is very unlikely you will rededicate the temple in a few years you aren't even close to getting the temple mount yet. Then it takes years to build it once you have it back.

 

There is no proof that Ahn and Jesus were the same person.

 

Says who? With the upcoming war with Persia (Iran) Iam sure the Ishmaelites will lose again and the Temple Mount will be ours. Moshe Dayan screwed up in 67 and we should of destroyed the Dome of the Rock.

Okay let us say they are not the same person then I am rejecting Jesus and worshipping someone else and thus Ahnsahnghong and Zahng Gil Jah are still only two people.

 

I suppose if humanity survives another major war between nuclear powers.

[genny]

shimon wrote:

Nope different calendar

Compare

Armstrong……………….Ahnsahnghong

Passover…………………Passover

Unleavened Bread……Unleavened Bread

<NOTHING>………….First Fruits

Pentecost………………..Pentecost

Trumpets……………….Trumpets

Atonement……………Atonement

Tabernacles………….Tabernacles

Greatest Day………..<NOTHING>

 

Armstrong also taught Sunset Theory

Firstfruits is part of their Unleavened Bread celebration. http://rcg.org/bics/rcgbic-025.html

And if by 'Greatest Day' you mean 'Last Great Day', they keep that too. http://rcg.org/holydays.html

So yes, Armstrong had them all.

And there is Biblical evidence for the sunset theory, but I'm guessing you still haven't read the page I referred you to about that.  Here it is again: http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/crucifixion/4.html

Besides, Ahnsahnghong wrote (ch 32 of the green book, The Mystery of God…) that if you keep the Passover, you will come to know and worship God and destroy any false gods.

Therefore, according to Ahn, Armstrong's keeping of the Passover would lead all of his other doctrine to be correct, wouldn't it?

[Simon]

genny wrote:

shimon wrote:

Nope different calendar

Compare

Armstrong……………….Ahnsahnghong

Passover…………………Passover

Unleavened Bread……Unleavened Bread

<NOTHING>………….First Fruits

Pentecost………………..Pentecost

Trumpets……………….Trumpets

Atonement……………Atonement

Tabernacles………….Tabernacles

Greatest Day………..<NOTHING>

 

Armstrong also taught Sunset Theory

Firstfruits is part of their Unleavened Bread celebration. http://rcg.org/bics/rcgbic-025.html

And if by 'Greatest Day' you mean 'Last Great Day', they keep that too. http://rcg.org/holydays.html

So yes, Armstrong had them all.

And there is Biblical evidence for the sunset theory, but I'm guessing you still haven't read the page I referred you to about that.  Here it is again: http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/crucifixion/4.html

Besides, Ahnsahnghong wrote (ch 32 of the green book, The Mystery of God…) that if you keep the Passover, you will come to know and worship God and destroy any false gods.

Therefore, according to Ahn, Armstrong's keeping of the Passover would lead all of his other doctrine to be correct, wouldn't it?

read the chart again please and you will see that I clearly said Greatest Day is Armstrong not Ahnsahnghong as an additional feast and according to the website first fruits is pentecost not a part of feast of unleavened bread FURTHERMORE it is a distinct feast so calling it a part of another feast is false.

I read it it is bologna

 

No because calling it passover does not make it passover.

[genny]

shimon wrote:

read the chart again please and you will see that I clearly said Greatest Day is Armstrong not Ahnsahnghong as an additional feast

Sorry, I was reading your chart backwards.  If you look at the Armstrong chart, the Last Great Day is the 8th day of the feast of tabernacles.  The wmscog keeps this feast for 8 days also.  Lev. 23:36 shows the last day of the feast as special.  It's equal between Armstrong and Ahnsahnghong.

and according to the website first fruits is pentecost not a part of feast of unleavened bread FURTHERMORE it is a distinct feast so calling it a part of another feast is false.

If you read through the information on the Armstrong site, I think you'll see that they do keep all the feasts, even if it's not clear on their calendar chart.

I read it it is bologna

Do you mean the site about the Sabbath?  Which part is bologna?  All the research and references he gives?  Or are you just unwilling to consider that there is evidence for the sunset day also?  Can you give something specific there that is incorrect?

No because calling it passover does not make it passover.

Do you remember in another thread we discussed what constitutes a 'correct' Passover?  Armstrong had the correct day and time (evening of the 1st month 14th day), the bread and the wine, and footwashing.  Isn't that what you said was required?  Is there something else?

[WMS brother]

loocpoc wrote:

Well its also not called Pentecost or Tabernacles. Its Shavout and Sukkot.. 🙂

 

Sukkot is the Feast Of Boothes not Tabernacles as that is an incorrect translation from Hebrew to Greek and Latin.

Absolutely. Pentecost is a greek word, not a jewish word.

But to adress this, and the OP:

I really feel very bad if you felt like you were pressured. I too pressure my friends sometimes because I panic about close the end is. I try to adress every year as if  "this is the last year". So I think "If this was the last passover, what would I tell people?"

I pray that you see this as us being concerned for you, rather than seeing this as alienating you.

It is true, that your eternal life is more important than physical people. Jesus himself said a very dramatic warning that I at first was very shocked to hear. This guy tells Jesus that he'd really love to go with Jesus, but that he has to bury his father first because it was so tragic that his father just died.

Jesus flat out tells him "let the dead bury their own dead". That is so mean I couldn't even believe what I was hearing. But then I understood. It is sad, very sad. But it is actually the truth. You shouldn't let physical things prevent you from gaining spiritual blessings.

NOW, theres a huge misconception about us asking people to give up jobs or break up, we never ever ever ever say that.

We do, however, stress about the importance of God's feasts, and they are -incredibly- important. This is the subject of your -eternal life- in heaven!

So it is a very difficult situation to have to pick the right thing to do.

The only exception for keeping the passover is if  you are "away on a journey" an then, it is written, that you can keep the second passover.

The bible also testifies to honor your family, respect the institutions which God put into power, and et cetera. So there is room for God's grace in all situations if you are acting with love.

But really, a person who is Christian should really try to prioritize God's feasts.

[Joshua]

And yet Jesus himself when asked how does one become saved didn’t include feast and Passover in his explanations.

[WMS brother]

Joshua wrote:

And yet Jesus himself when asked how does one become saved didn't include feast and Passover in his explanations.

And yet the Apostles only said to "believe in Christ" when asked, and they didn't mention the sabbath.

I guess you don't need to keep sabbath either, or do anything at all, just believe that once upon a  time Christ existed, and thats all your good to go.

Why, you wouldn't need a New Covenant book -at all-, clearly there are no mysteries of God, if that is the only verse governing how we are saved.

—

If keeping the passover wasn't important, Jesus wouldn't have said "do this, whenever you do this, in remembrance of me"

If wearing veils wasn't important the apostles wouldn't have told everyone to do it.

If keeping the feast of Ressurection wasn't important the Apostles wouldn't have done it.

I wonder what the point of all of those regulations was, if they were in fact, not the example of Christ, and if they were in fact frivolous.

The verse your quoting is not in the context that we should ignore the New Covenant regulations, so then answer this: If we don't actually have to follow any of the holy days, or any of the advice, why did the Apostles keep those days and also tell us to?

[Joshua]

This was posted by someone who was almost inducted by the WMSCOG. Some of the postings have been omitted for some reason. I think it was requested by the person who wrote the comments. They are no longer a member of this forum not that they cannot come back and comment at anytime.