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My 1st question about the bible, who is God?
Scripture makes many references to the difference between man and animal.
loocpoc wrote:
Sueno Maruyama wrote:
Excellent …. I have posted before about how using the Bible to prove anything is quite meaningless … by the way, I do enjoy the "meat" side of things … beef steak, salmon, fresh halibut, delicous roasted chicken … HA HA HA
Nothing wrong with eating meat. Its allowed.
shimon wrote:
Scripture makes many references to the difference between man and animal.
It does.. but the law says thou shall not murder. Jesus murdered a herd of swine.
No scripture says Murder applies to animals
He didn't drive any swine into a lake he allowed evil spirits to inhabit them, further murder law was explicitly limited to humans.
A person is not punished the same in regards to killing another's animals as for murder so they cannot be the same concept. And of course being God everything is His to do with as he pleases.
HA HA. Very interesting. I love BBQ pork, so I thank Jesus for doing that to the pigs. I feel much less guilty! It is kind of hard to tell from those 4 books on his life, but I think he was a pretty straight up guy. Jews didn't eat pork, so driving them into the lake deprived the Jewish pork merchants selling to the Non Jews their profit potential. Maybe Jesus didn't like people making profit selling pork?????? Probably that was what it was all about ….
Interesting …. Jews FOUNDED Christianity ….. gotta love em! AND, of course, Jesus was born a Jew!
I always tell people, if someone held a gun to my head and said "Pick a religion or you die" …. I would say "Go ahead and shoot"! I love a lot of religions so I really don't want to pick just one.
However, if someone held a gun to my spouse's head and said "you pick a religion or your spouse dies" …. well, without hesitation I would say >> "I'm a Jew"!
Because I feel that they have the right approach to most things about life, love, God, etc …. and it, in my opinion, along with Buddhism, is of an intellectual orientation that respects the intellect of human beings …..
loocpoc wrote:
That is murder. He intentionally killed. Whether it is an animal or man. The law states thou shalt not murder.
Murder is of Humans full stop. Second it would be the evil spirits who would have murdered the wine anyways.
Plus, did he own the swine? Did he pay a price for killing them? If he was G-d why did he not go to his treasury and pay from it.
We do not know that he did not pay the price, which he would not have owed in the strictest sense anyways.
It shows Jesus lying to his disciples about entering into the Kingdom of heaven. The same way Zhang and the heirarchy of the church decieve.
I do not see a lie there at all
The Temple is not a market place
That Wasn’t allowed by law in the temple.courts themselves
Cities of refuge….what another amazing example of God’s grace! A person commits murder, MAJOR sin against God and fellow man. Yes, they will have to be held accountable for their sin, but they will not be cast out. A place where they can go to, live their lives, still contribute to society. And it provides a way for the offended parties not to fall into temptation for revenge killing. For we all sin and must be held accountable, but God does not cast out his children into the unknown to fend for themselves. His steadfast love endures forever. How amazing is His grace, and it is free for everyone!
I think this is a misunderstanding. The cities of refuge were a place where a wrongfully convicted person could seek refuge. Once there the law of that city would review the evidence against the accused. They were innocent until proven guilty. If they were in fact guilty they would still be subject to dicipline even death.
I think it just means he tagged along, I don't know
Cities of Refuge
Ment as a place which offers asylum so as to prevent the defiling of the land by the shedding of blood through revenge.
Numbers 35: 11-34
Joshua 29: 1-9
The accused has a place to go to until it is time to stand judgment.
Joshua 20 – The Cities of Refuge
A. God commands the appointment of six cities of refuge.
1. (1-3) A place of refuge from the avenger of blood.
The LORD also spoke to Joshua, saying, “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Appoint for yourselves cities of refuge, of which I spoke to you through Moses, that the slayer who kills a person accidentally or unintentionally may flee there; and they shall be your refuge from the avenger of blood.’”
a. Appoint for yourselves cities of refuge: God now tells Joshua to fulfill what the LORD had commanded through Moses in Numbers 35 – the appointment of six cities of refuge.
b. The purpose of the cities of refuge was to protect the slayer who kills any person accidentally or unintentionally. They were to protect someone in the case of manslaughter as opposed to murder.
c. And they shall be your refuge from the avenger of blood: Such a person needed protection against the avenger of blood. The Hebrew word for this phrase is goel, and in this context means the representative from the victim’s family charged with making sure justice is carried out against the murderer of the family member.
i. God had a passion to make sure that murderers were punished in ancient Israel, and in that culture, the final responsibility for justice rested with the designated goel (avenger of blood) in the family.
ii. The principle for capital punishment goes back to Genesis 9:6: Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man his blood shall be shed; for in the image of God He made man. The state’s right to use the sword of execution is also stated in the New Testament (Romans 13:3-4).
iii. God said also that unpunished murderers defiled the land: Moreover you shall take no ransom for the life of a murderer who is guilty of death, but he shall surely be put to death . . . So you shall not pollute the land where you are; for blood defiles the land, and no atonement can be made for the land, for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who shed it. Therefore do not defile the land which you inhabit, in the midst of which I dwell; for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel. (Numbers 35:31, 35:33-34).
iv. How long will our nation be polluted by the stain of unpunished murders? Not too many years ago, over one year in Los Angeles County, they averaged more than five murders a day. The blood of the slain cries out before God.
d. The avenger of blood tracked down the murderer, and if necessary, delivered him over to the authorities for execution. This was providing the testimony of two or three eyewitnesses could confirm the guilt of the murderer according to Deuteronomy 17:6-7.
e. Since the avenger of blood might set himself against a person really guilty of manslaughter (accidental or unintentional killing) instead of murder, the cities of refuge were established to protect the person innocent of murder.
2. (4) Entrance into the city of refuge.
And when he flees to one of those cities, and stands at the entrance of the gate of the city, and declares his case in the hearing of the elders of that city, they shall take him into the city as one of them, and give him a place, that he may dwell among them.
a. And declares his case in the hearing of the elders of that city: According to custom, the elders of the city spent much time at the gates of the city. When someone fleeing from an avenger of blood came to a city of refuge, he stated his case to the elders at the city gates.
b. They shall take him into the city as one of them: After explaining the case, the fleeing person could expect to find protection within the walls of the city of refuge, though he would have to stay there, and live in the city, to enjoy that protection.
3. (5) Protection against the avenger of blood.
Then if the avenger of blood pursues him, they shall not deliver the slayer into his hand, because he struck his neighbor unintentionally, but did not hate him beforehand.
a. They shall not deliver the slayer into his hand: The leaders of a city of refuge were obliged to protect the one who had fled to the city. The avenger of blood had no legal standing to deliver the slayer over to execution.
b. Because he struck his neighbor unintentionally, but did not hate him beforehand: Israel had a sophisticated legal system, with judgments often based on intent and premeditation.
4. (6) Freedom for the slayer.
And he shall dwell in that city until he stands before the congregation for judgment, and until the death of the one who is high priest in those days. Then the slayer may return and come to his own city and his own house, to the city from which he fled.
a. He shall dwell in that city until he stands before the congregation for judgment, and until the death of the one who is high priest in those days: To be protected against the avenger of blood, the slayer had to stay within the walls of the city of refuge until his case was fully heard by the proper authorities, and until the death of the standing high priest.
b. Then the slayer may return and come to his own city: After being declared innocent of murder by the proper authorities, and after the death of the standing high priest, the slayer could go back to his home and be protected against the wrath of the avenger of blood.
B. Six cities selected for cities of refuge.
1. (7-8) The appointment of six cities.
So they appointed Kedesh in Galilee, in the mountains of Naphtali, Shechem in the mountains of Ephraim, and Kirjath Arba (which is Hebron) in the mountains of Judah. And on the other side of the Jordan, by Jericho eastward, they assigned Bezer in the wilderness on the plain, from the tribe of Reuben, Ramoth in Gilead, from the tribe of Gad, and Golan in Bashan, from the tribe of Manasseh.
a. On a map, we see that the cities of refuge were well spaced throughout the country. No matter where you were in Israel, you were not very far from a city of refuge.
b. Deuteronomy 19:2 tells us that proper roads were to be built and maintained to these cities of refuge. The city was not much good to the slayer if they could not get to it quickly.
2. (9) The purpose for the cities of refuge is again stated.
These were the cities appointed for all the children of Israel and for the stranger who dwelt among them, that whoever killed a person accidentally might flee there, and not die by the hand of the avenger of blood until he stood before the congregation.
a. The cities of refuge were not only for the benefit of the Israelite, but also for the stranger who sojourned among them. God’s justice applied to all without partiality.
3. The cities of refuge as a picture of Jesus.
a. The Bible applies this picture of the city of refuge to the believer finding refuge in God on more than one occasion:
i. Psalm 46:1: God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. More than 15 other times, the Psalms speak of God as our refuge.
ii. Hebrews 6:18: That by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us.
b. Points of similarity between the cities of refuge and our refuge in Jesus.
· Both Jesus and the cities of refuge are within easy reach of the needy person; they were of no use unless someone could get to the place of refuge.
· Both Jesus and the cities of refuge are open to all, not just the Israelite; no one needs to fear that they would be turned away from their place of refuge in their time of need.
· Both Jesus and the cities of refuge became a place where the one in need would live; you didn’t come to a city of refuge in time of need just to look around.
· Both Jesus and the cities of refuge are the only alternative for the one in need; without this specific protection, they will be destroyed.
· Both Jesus and the cities of refuge provide protection only within their boundaries; to go outside means death.
· With both Jesus and the cities of refuge, full freedom comes with the death of the High Priest.
c. A crucial distinction between the cities of refuge and our refuge in Jesus.
· The cities of refuge only helped the innocent, but the guilty can come to Jesus and find refuge.
© 2001 David Guzik – No distribution beyond personal use without permission
God’s Grace is Everywhere
also implies he is seperate
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