[genny]

Rev. 12:7-9

And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.  So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The wmscog teaches that people are the angels who were cast out of heaven.  What about satan?  He was cast out of heaven too, but was he put into a human body?  Which one?  Wouldn't he be dead and gone now?  Or was he cast out differently than the other bad angels. 

How many bad angels were there?  There are approximately 7 billion people on earth right now, plus all those who previously lived.  Are there that many fallen angels?  Of have some of them been reincarnated into humans over and over again?

Rev. 12:4 can be interpreted that the fallen angels were about 1/3 of all angels.  Does that mean there are 14+ billion good angels still in heaven?

I know not everyone on this forum is a Christian or believes in satan the same way, but just go with it for now…  If the wmscog were right about the fallen angels doctrine, what impact would that have on who satan is?

And wmscog members, you can help clear this up.  How does it all fit together?

And while we are at it, how about babies who die or are born handicapped, disfigured, or otherwise 'defective' (for lack of a better word)?  Did they deserve it because of their sin in heaven?  How are they and their parents treated by the wmscog?  What does the wmscog teach about them?

(PS — I'm a parent myself, and I don't mean to be cruel or offensive with the wording, but rather than step lightly to avoid hurt feelings, I'd like to get to the root of the issue.)

[genny]

[genny]

shimon wrote:

shimon wrote:

genny wrote:

Why did he have to have children before he was 30?

He had to have them before he started preaching the Gospel, which was at 30

Why?

So he could spend his time preaching not focusing on physical children. 

How old was he when his children were born?

 

Nope I would say it depends on your knowledge of right and wrong and developmental capacity. But assuming an adult with fully functional standard development I would think it would be intentional sin.

And would the adultery example be intentinal sin also?

Possibly, possibly not it is possible to sin without intent to sin.

Can you give me some examples of intentional sins and unintentional sins, please?

[genny]

shimon wrote:

shimon wrote:

genny wrote:

Why did he have to have children before he was 30?

He had to have them before he started preaching the Gospel, which was at 30

Why?

So he could spend his time preaching not focusing on physical children. 

How old was he when his children were born?

 

Nope I would say it depends on your knowledge of right and wrong and developmental capacity. But assuming an adult with fully functional standard development I would think it would be intentional sin.

And would the adultery example be intentinal sin also?

Possibly, possibly not it is possible to sin without intent to sin.

Can you give me some examples of intentional sins and unintentional sins, please?

[Simon]

genny wrote:

shimon wrote:

shimon wrote:

genny wrote:

Why did he have to have children before he was 30?

He had to have them before he started preaching the Gospel, which was at 30

Why?

So he could spend his time preaching not focusing on physical children. 

How old was he when his children were born?

I do not know all I know is they were born before he formed COG

 

Nope I would say it depends on your knowledge of right and wrong and developmental capacity. But assuming an adult with fully functional standard development I would think it would be intentional sin.

And would the adultery example be intentinal sin also?

Possibly, possibly not it is possible to sin without intent to sin.

Can you give me some examples of intentional sins and unintentional sins, please?

The same sin can be both it is about motive not the sin.

[Simon]

genny wrote:

shimon wrote:

shimon wrote:

genny wrote:

Why did he have to have children before he was 30?

He had to have them before he started preaching the Gospel, which was at 30

Why?

So he could spend his time preaching not focusing on physical children. 

How old was he when his children were born?

I do not know all I know is they were born before he formed COG

 

Nope I would say it depends on your knowledge of right and wrong and developmental capacity. But assuming an adult with fully functional standard development I would think it would be intentional sin.

And would the adultery example be intentinal sin also?

Possibly, possibly not it is possible to sin without intent to sin.

Can you give me some examples of intentional sins and unintentional sins, please?

The same sin can be both it is about motive not the sin.

[genny]

shimon wrote:

genny wrote:

shimon wrote:

shimon wrote:

genny wrote:

Why did he have to have children before he was 30?

He had to have them before he started preaching the Gospel, which was at 30

Why?

So he could spend his time preaching not focusing on physical children. 

How old was he when his children were born?

I do not know all I know is they were born before he formed COG

Consider this–children need their parents attention all the way through the teen years.  Let's say he waited until his youngest child was 17 and didn't need his attention so much before getting baptised.  That would make him about 13 years old when he had his youngest child.

Now we know that is highly improbable.  So this tells us that when he was baptised and started preaching, he still had young children at home that needed his attention.  Therefore, that reason for having children before he was 30 is invalid.

Is there another reason he needed to have children before he was 30?

Can you give me some examples of intentional sins and unintentional sins, please?

The same sin can be both it is about motive not the sin.

Well, maybe you can still give me some examples so I can understand better what you mean.

[genny]

shimon wrote:

genny wrote:

shimon wrote:

shimon wrote:

genny wrote:

Why did he have to have children before he was 30?

He had to have them before he started preaching the Gospel, which was at 30

Why?

So he could spend his time preaching not focusing on physical children. 

How old was he when his children were born?

I do not know all I know is they were born before he formed COG

Consider this–children need their parents attention all the way through the teen years.  Let's say he waited until his youngest child was 17 and didn't need his attention so much before getting baptised.  That would make him about 13 years old when he had his youngest child.

Now we know that is highly improbable.  So this tells us that when he was baptised and started preaching, he still had young children at home that needed his attention.  Therefore, that reason for having children before he was 30 is invalid.

Is there another reason he needed to have children before he was 30?

Can you give me some examples of intentional sins and unintentional sins, please?

The same sin can be both it is about motive not the sin.

Well, maybe you can still give me some examples so I can understand better what you mean.

[Simon]

genny wrote:

shimon wrote:

genny wrote:

shimon wrote:

shimon wrote:

genny wrote:

Why did he have to have children before he was 30?

He had to have them before he started preaching the Gospel, which was at 30

Why?

So he could spend his time preaching not focusing on physical children. 

How old was he when his children were born?

I do not know all I know is they were born before he formed COG

Consider this–children need their parents attention all the way through the teen years.  Let's say he waited until his youngest child was 17 and didn't need his attention so much before getting baptised.  That would make him about 13 years old when he had his youngest child.

Now we know that is highly improbable.  So this tells us that when he was baptised and started preaching, he still had young children at home that needed his attention.  Therefore, that reason for having children before he was 30 is invalid.

Is there another reason he needed to have children before he was 30?

Sorry but most people I know who are older were on their own (in a defacto sense) by even 10, there are also a lot of latch key children now as they are called, Children can do just fine on their own. He could raise childen who are a lot older and spend a lot of time on the Gospel work at the same time he could not do young children they had to get through that time period. He spent time doing things other than the gospel of course! So raising older chuldren is certainly possible just not really young children.

Can you give me some examples of intentional sins and unintentional sins, please?

The same sin can be both it is about motive not the sin.

Well, maybe you can still give me some examples so I can understand better what you mean.

I am not sure if intentional sin exists on this earth as it did in Heaven Satan corrupted as us to a point that we are so defective I am not sure if it can be distinguished.  Intentional sin is sin for the express purpose of rebelling against God unintentional sin would be sin because you are deceived on blinded upon one level.

Remember Jesus told the Pharisees if they were blind they would not be guilty but because they say they can see their guilt remains

[Simon]

genny wrote:

shimon wrote:

genny wrote:

shimon wrote:

shimon wrote:

genny wrote:

Why did he have to have children before he was 30?

He had to have them before he started preaching the Gospel, which was at 30

Why?

So he could spend his time preaching not focusing on physical children. 

How old was he when his children were born?

I do not know all I know is they were born before he formed COG

Consider this–children need their parents attention all the way through the teen years.  Let's say he waited until his youngest child was 17 and didn't need his attention so much before getting baptised.  That would make him about 13 years old when he had his youngest child.

Now we know that is highly improbable.  So this tells us that when he was baptised and started preaching, he still had young children at home that needed his attention.  Therefore, that reason for having children before he was 30 is invalid.

Is there another reason he needed to have children before he was 30?

Sorry but most people I know who are older were on their own (in a defacto sense) by even 10, there are also a lot of latch key children now as they are called, Children can do just fine on their own. He could raise childen who are a lot older and spend a lot of time on the Gospel work at the same time he could not do young children they had to get through that time period. He spent time doing things other than the gospel of course! So raising older chuldren is certainly possible just not really young children.

Can you give me some examples of intentional sins and unintentional sins, please?

The same sin can be both it is about motive not the sin.

Well, maybe you can still give me some examples so I can understand better what you mean.

I am not sure if intentional sin exists on this earth as it did in Heaven Satan corrupted as us to a point that we are so defective I am not sure if it can be distinguished.  Intentional sin is sin for the express purpose of rebelling against God unintentional sin would be sin because you are deceived on blinded upon one level.

Remember Jesus told the Pharisees if they were blind they would not be guilty but because they say they can see their guilt remains

[Love'n Honey]

loocpoc wrote:

renita.payno wrote:

I used to shoplift… a lot! It was funny when people didn't realize what was happening, especially with such poor planning.  Thanks for confirming the fact I'm going to HELL………………….

 I hope you never got caught. Especially at the NEX.

 I never got caught. That's I did it so much. Sometimes I still take stuff from people. I did it just yesterday but I gave it right back.

[Love'n Honey]

loocpoc wrote:

renita.payno wrote:

I used to shoplift… a lot! It was funny when people didn't realize what was happening, especially with such poor planning.  Thanks for confirming the fact I'm going to HELL………………….

 I hope you never got caught. Especially at the NEX.

 I never got caught. That's I did it so much. Sometimes I still take stuff from people. I did it just yesterday but I gave it right back.

[Love'n Honey]

A possible example of intentional sin.. Someone who believes F&M is God but intentional goes against Their teaching??

[Love'n Honey]

A possible example of intentional sin.. Someone who believes F&M is God but intentional goes against Their teaching??

[genny]

I think we have a difference in word meanings here, and if we define words differently from each other, we're not going to be able to understand each other.

How would you define

intentional = __________

sin = __________

Here is what those words mean to me:

intentional = done on purpose, consciously, not accidental

sin = refusing to do God's will as revealed by His Word and His Spirit

I don't think we can talk further about sin unless we agree on what the words mean.

shimon wrote:

Sorry but most people I know who are older were on their own (in a defacto sense) by even 10, there are also a lot of latch key children now as they are called, Children can do just fine on their own. He could raise childen who are a lot older and spend a lot of time on the Gospel work at the same time he could not do young children they had to get through that time period. He spent time doing things other than the gospel of course! So raising older chuldren is certainly possible just not really young children.

How much time did he spend preaching?  How much time did he spend traveling, away from the family?  Even at 10, a child needs his (or her) dad.  Did he let his wife do the childrearing?  Did she believe in what he was preaching?  If so, why did they get divorced?  If not, why would he spend so much time on the gospel work, leaving her to be the main influence on the children?  If she worked too, then who took care of the children?  My husband has spent the same amount of time at work and with our children whether they were babies or 10 years old.  He's the main breadwinner, and I'm the main caretaker.

Honestly, if Ahn could spend that much time working when his children were 10, I don't see the difference if he had spent that much time working when they were babies.  I think this is all part of a lame excuse for trying to justify that he had children at all.

The main problem of Ahn having children, as I see it, is why would God the Father have sex at all with one of his children?

[genny]

I think we have a difference in word meanings here, and if we define words differently from each other, we're not going to be able to understand each other.

How would you define

intentional = __________

sin = __________

Here is what those words mean to me:

intentional = done on purpose, consciously, not accidental

sin = refusing to do God's will as revealed by His Word and His Spirit

I don't think we can talk further about sin unless we agree on what the words mean.

shimon wrote:

Sorry but most people I know who are older were on their own (in a defacto sense) by even 10, there are also a lot of latch key children now as they are called, Children can do just fine on their own. He could raise childen who are a lot older and spend a lot of time on the Gospel work at the same time he could not do young children they had to get through that time period. He spent time doing things other than the gospel of course! So raising older chuldren is certainly possible just not really young children.

How much time did he spend preaching?  How much time did he spend traveling, away from the family?  Even at 10, a child needs his (or her) dad.  Did he let his wife do the childrearing?  Did she believe in what he was preaching?  If so, why did they get divorced?  If not, why would he spend so much time on the gospel work, leaving her to be the main influence on the children?  If she worked too, then who took care of the children?  My husband has spent the same amount of time at work and with our children whether they were babies or 10 years old.  He's the main breadwinner, and I'm the main caretaker.

Honestly, if Ahn could spend that much time working when his children were 10, I don't see the difference if he had spent that much time working when they were babies.  I think this is all part of a lame excuse for trying to justify that he had children at all.

The main problem of Ahn having children, as I see it, is why would God the Father have sex at all with one of his children?

[Sueno Maruyama]

Ahn had children by different women.  Some still manage his original church in Korea.

[Sueno Maruyama]

Ahn had children by different women.  Some still manage his original church in Korea.

[Simon]

genny answer your question. when I was a baby my parents were there for me a lot more than when I was 10 is a substantial difference between a 5 year old a 10 year old a baby a 9 year old etc every year need more responsibility and less cottling

his wife is not a believer if t church of God is true she isn’t a child of God but satan

further you have to distinguish spiritual from physical. after all as spiritual brothers and sisters it would still be wrong.

[Simon]

genny answer your question. when I was a baby my parents were there for me a lot more than when I was 10 is a substantial difference between a 5 year old a 10 year old a baby a 9 year old etc every year need more responsibility and less cottling

his wife is not a believer if t church of God is true she isn’t a child of God but satan

further you have to distinguish spiritual from physical. after all as spiritual brothers and sisters it would still be wrong.

[Simon]

Sueno evidence?

[Simon]

Sueno evidence?