- Topic
Rev. 12:7-9
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
The wmscog teaches that people are the angels who were cast out of heaven. What about satan? He was cast out of heaven too, but was he put into a human body? Which one? Wouldn't he be dead and gone now? Or was he cast out differently than the other bad angels.
How many bad angels were there? There are approximately 7 billion people on earth right now, plus all those who previously lived. Are there that many fallen angels? Of have some of them been reincarnated into humans over and over again?
Rev. 12:4 can be interpreted that the fallen angels were about 1/3 of all angels. Does that mean there are 14+ billion good angels still in heaven?
I know not everyone on this forum is a Christian or believes in satan the same way, but just go with it for now… If the wmscog were right about the fallen angels doctrine, what impact would that have on who satan is?
And wmscog members, you can help clear this up. How does it all fit together?
And while we are at it, how about babies who die or are born handicapped, disfigured, or otherwise 'defective' (for lack of a better word)? Did they deserve it because of their sin in heaven? How are they and their parents treated by the wmscog? What does the wmscog teach about them?
(PS — I'm a parent myself, and I don't mean to be cruel or offensive with the wording, but rather than step lightly to avoid hurt feelings, I'd like to get to the root of the issue.)
genny wrote:
shimon wrote:
it makes perfect sense I already explained to Genny the three types of angels exposed intentional sinners, unexposed intentional sinners, and unintentional sinners; of which only the last two would be thrown out Satan being of the first type.
I remember you mentioning them, but you did not explain them or give verse references for where this information comes from (the three types of angels).
That's the city of Refuge.
shimon wrote:
can you cite an example of God forgiving Intentional Sin?
John 8:1-11, the woman caught in adultery
Peter was forgiven for denying Christ (Luke 22:54-62)
Paul was forgiven for persecuting Christians.
David was forgiven his sin with Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11 and 12)
Even the church in Laodicea is given the opportunity for forgiveness. (Rev. 3:14-20)
"And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven." — Matthew 12:31
do you need some more examples?
None of those examples are stated to be intentional sins
genny wrote:
shimon wrote:
it makes perfect sense I already explained to Genny the three types of angels exposed intentional sinners, unexposed intentional sinners, and unintentional sinners; of which only the last two would be thrown out Satan being of the first type.
I remember you mentioning them, but you did not explain them or give verse references for where this information comes from (the three types of angels).
That's the city of Refuge.
shimon wrote:
can you cite an example of God forgiving Intentional Sin?
John 8:1-11, the woman caught in adultery
Peter was forgiven for denying Christ (Luke 22:54-62)
Paul was forgiven for persecuting Christians.
David was forgiven his sin with Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11 and 12)
Even the church in Laodicea is given the opportunity for forgiveness. (Rev. 3:14-20)
"And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven." — Matthew 12:31
do you need some more examples?
None of those examples are stated to be intentional sins
That's what I thought. Now, according to Trinity, the Father, Son, & HS are all the same. So, my next question is, why is the HS separated from the Trinity in this verse? Or is it even separated at all? & if not, then speaking against Jesus or Jehovah is unforgivable, too, right?
And shimon, saying, "That's the city of refuge" still isn't explaining anything. Why don't you just tell her? Why are you beating around the bush?
That's what I thought. Now, according to Trinity, the Father, Son, & HS are all the same. So, my next question is, why is the HS separated from the Trinity in this verse? Or is it even separated at all? & if not, then speaking against Jesus or Jehovah is unforgivable, too, right?
And shimon, saying, "That's the city of refuge" still isn't explaining anything. Why don't you just tell her? Why are you beating around the bush?
renita.payno wrote:
That's what I thought. Now, according to Trinity, the Father, Son, & HS are all the same. So, my next question is, why is the HS separated from the Trinity in this verse? Or is it even separated at all? & if not, then speaking against Jesus or Jehovah is unforgivable, too, right?
And shimon, saying, "That's the city of refuge" still isn't explaining anything. Why don't you just tell her? Why are you beating around the bush?
I alreayd explained the city of refuge to her before numerous times.
renita.payno wrote:
That's what I thought. Now, according to Trinity, the Father, Son, & HS are all the same. So, my next question is, why is the HS separated from the Trinity in this verse? Or is it even separated at all? & if not, then speaking against Jesus or Jehovah is unforgivable, too, right?
And shimon, saying, "That's the city of refuge" still isn't explaining anything. Why don't you just tell her? Why are you beating around the bush?
I alreayd explained the city of refuge to her before numerous times.
I cannot find things easily in old threads, if you do not remember I must have done a bad Job anyways…
Numbers 35:<sup class=”versenum”>9 Then the Lord said to Moses: <sup class=”versenum”>10 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you cross the Jordan into Canaan, <sup class=”versenum”>11 select some towns to be your cities of refuge, to which a person who has killed someone accidentally may flee. <sup class=”versenum”>12 They will be places of refuge from the avenger, so that a person accused of murder may not die before he stands trial before the assembly. <sup class=”versenum”>13 These six towns you give will be your cities of refuge. <sup class=”versenum”>14 Give three on this side of the Jordan and three in Canaan as cities of refuge. <sup class=”versenum”>15 These six towns will be a place of refuge for Israelites, aliens and any other people living among them, so that anyone who has killed another accidentally can flee there.
So God had the ancient Israelites establish six cities of refuge where an accidental killer could flee to be saved from the avenger of blood who was allowed to kill him to avenge the death of his family member without being guilty.
Numbers 35:16-23 talks about how to discern if it is intentional or unintentional.
it goes on <sup class=”versenum”>24 the assembly must judge between him and the avenger of blood according to these regulations. <sup class=”versenum”>25 The assembly must protect the one accused of murder from the avenger of blood and send him back to the city of refuge to which he fled. He must stay there until the death of the high priest, who was anointed with the holy oil.
So we have two types of Murderers Intentional Murderers and Unintentional Murderers. There are also those who the avenger of blood caught before they could flee to the city of refuge(potentially either one hopefully only intentional).
In Heaven we have Angels who sinned intentionally Angels who sinned unintentionally that is two types but only some were allowed to flee to the city of refuge just as only some murders could make it to the city of refuge.
Not sure if this is clear at least as starting point.
I cannot find things easily in old threads, if you do not remember I must have done a bad Job anyways…
Numbers 35:<sup class=”versenum”>9 Then the Lord said to Moses: <sup class=”versenum”>10 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you cross the Jordan into Canaan, <sup class=”versenum”>11 select some towns to be your cities of refuge, to which a person who has killed someone accidentally may flee. <sup class=”versenum”>12 They will be places of refuge from the avenger, so that a person accused of murder may not die before he stands trial before the assembly. <sup class=”versenum”>13 These six towns you give will be your cities of refuge. <sup class=”versenum”>14 Give three on this side of the Jordan and three in Canaan as cities of refuge. <sup class=”versenum”>15 These six towns will be a place of refuge for Israelites, aliens and any other people living among them, so that anyone who has killed another accidentally can flee there.
So God had the ancient Israelites establish six cities of refuge where an accidental killer could flee to be saved from the avenger of blood who was allowed to kill him to avenge the death of his family member without being guilty.
Numbers 35:16-23 talks about how to discern if it is intentional or unintentional.
it goes on <sup class=”versenum”>24 the assembly must judge between him and the avenger of blood according to these regulations. <sup class=”versenum”>25 The assembly must protect the one accused of murder from the avenger of blood and send him back to the city of refuge to which he fled. He must stay there until the death of the high priest, who was anointed with the holy oil.
So we have two types of Murderers Intentional Murderers and Unintentional Murderers. There are also those who the avenger of blood caught before they could flee to the city of refuge(potentially either one hopefully only intentional).
In Heaven we have Angels who sinned intentionally Angels who sinned unintentionally that is two types but only some were allowed to flee to the city of refuge just as only some murders could make it to the city of refuge.
Not sure if this is clear at least as starting point.
Again the copy and shadow Genny the Bible says we are fallen angels like in Ezekiel 28
Because intentionally doing something that is sinful is not intentionally commiting sin.
Again the copy and shadow Genny the Bible says we are fallen angels like in Ezekiel 28
Because intentionally doing something that is sinful is not intentionally commiting sin.
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