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It makes sense that Zahng and the WMSCOG gets your love, support, money, time, effort, and more. The argument can be made that this is what you should do for god. I get that. Please don't give me a pat answer here. What do you as a member get out of this? My loved on said that she got a nice home and a great family. These are things she had before she joined the WMSCOG and what she almost lost because of this group. If mother gets all of these things what do you get out of this relationship?
genny wrote:
fromtheotherside wrote:
I think Genny pointed out my point very well on faith and works. As it say "both of you BROKE FAITH when…." "you did no TRUST ME (Trust is also faith) when…." So not obeying God is not having faith! Very good Genny thank you for pointing that out I did not notice that, I will add that to my knowledge!
I see you like tearing down even the forefathers of Faith Joshua. You know they did obey God, but they were commended for their faith which also goes with my other comment that Genny keeps over looking and says her own accusations aboutt he the wmscog. I will put here again try to read it this time.
fromtheotherside wrote:
I agree with your statement that is exactly correct! But anyway you view it, it means they had faith, correct? They wouldn't do it if they didn't have faith.
I can't speak for everyone. But I can say is we are human we are not perfect yet, that is only in heaven. No one on this earth is perfect. Does God account for the fact we try to follow? I hope so and believe it true. Am I perfect, no, I still get mad, I still want to fight the guy who cuts me off on the freeway, I try to fight it but I still loose it sometimes. I wouldn't believe anyone here or brothers and sisters even at our zion that says they are perfect and have no flaws and lives a perfect life even outside of Zion I would never believe that.
Hi fromtheotherside,
I've been unable to post recently, and now I'm trying to find the part you said I "overlooked". Was this it?
I agree that if we have true faith, then good works, obedience, and all will follow. Our lives will show our faith. One thing you and I differ on is what that obedience looks like.
I agree that even though we have faith and seek to obey and please God, that we still fail to do so perfectly, no matter what we believe a life of faith looks like.
However, the wmscog teaches that salvation is based on obedience, and I have seen what they teach about sinning after you are saved. I think it's spelled out pretty clearly here: english.watv.org/truth/sermon/content.asp?idx=1835
Can you explain this a little more please? This sermon says that once you have received forgiveness of your past sins and joined the "truth" (that is, baptism and joining the wmscog), if you sin again then you are out of luck–no heaven for you. Here's a quote:
"All wicked sins we previously committed have been forgiven through the precious blood of Christ in the truth of the new covenant. If we sin again, forgetting His grace, it is a sin of treating as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified us and crucifying Christ all over again and subjecting Him to public disgrace. Such a person who brings disgrace on Christ will never be allowed to enter the kingdom of heaven."
Well actualy the bible does testify to it Genny, it says a man who recieves the truth and repents of his sins, but turns around and sins again is like a dog returning to it's vomit. The bible does testify to that fact. Also whats wrong with teaching that you shouldn't sin after repenting, that is 100% correct! The words on that sermon are cut and dry, but actually we the members all hear it as we should try to not sin again. It is impossible to not sin even once again, the point is to try to not sin. as I said countless times we are not perfect, but we must try to not sin again, lest we be a dog returning to our vommit.
i am a dog fond of it's vomit.. =(
The thing is this can be applied to anyone who believes in Christ and yet keeps sinning or even leaves Christ, Renita I wasn't trying to say that to you, but to mearly point out that once you accept Christ he says that if you leave him then it is a bad thing.
I was taking it personally. I was just telling the truth. According to the verse, I am a dog fond of it's vomit. Just a statement.
Renita, again not a personal attack, if you took it that way i do apologize.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Because of these "subsidiary" topics, you fail to realize who you are worshipping. I'm sorry to say but even demons believe in Christ. Doesn't matter how many times your lips worships Jesus, doesn't mean you are worshiping him. If you feel that way then you throw all hope for conversation out the window, because it is because of these "subsidiary" discussions we can know they are God.
No. You fail to realize who you are worshipping. You guys are the ones who have pushed Jesus out of the way because his age is over. No matter what you say about the sabbath and passover, you are worshipping the messenger.
LOL! I forgot the very important NOT. FTOS.. I'm sorry. I was NOT taking it personally. =)
Christians, collectively, have thrown Jehovah out of the way, too.
I retract my last statement. After little thought, every Christian church I've gone to worships Jehovah and Jesus. My bad..
Jesus, he is with us. Emil, God sends us a messenger to do his bidding his will, and that very messenger is God himself.
FTOS – So how many times do you believe God will come to the world?
I know you didn't ask me, but I want to add my thoughts! =)
I think God will come physically a total of 2 times. Spritually, I think God will present Himself to destroy earth 1 time. All of this I gathered from the bible.
FTOS, this messenger thing you write of is disturbing. I am assuming that then you are told to believe the pastors are the messengers, straight from God, and you should listen to them and do exactly what they say. I know that God supposedly calls the pastor on the phone regularly, so some divine direct connection is assumed by the congregation. Why God would need a phone, I can't fathom, can you?
MountainMom wrote:
FTOS, this messenger thing you write of is disturbing. I am assuming that then you are told to believe the pastors are the messengers, straight from God, and you should listen to them and do exactly what they say. I know that God supposedly calls the pastor on the phone regularly, so some divine direct connection is assumed by the congregation. Why God would need a phone, I can't fathom, can you?
I don't think you read my comment, or understood it correctly. The bible says Jesus is God's messenger, he came to carry out God's will he came as a servent, but he is God.
From what I remember, we are all God's messengers but we aren't God.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Jesus, he is with us. Emil, God sends us a messenger to do his bidding his will, and that very messenger is God himself.
fromtheotherside wrote:
I don't think you read my comment, or understood it correctly. The bible says Jesus is God's messenger, he came to carry out God's will he came as a servent, but he is God.
I wasn't refering to Jesus as God's messenger whom you worship. I was refering to ASH.
Let me clarify that I have no animosity or anything toward ASH. I do believe he was a sincere man wanting to bring to people to God in the way he believed. But that does not make him god.
renita.payno wrote:
I know you didn't ask me, but I want to add my thoughts! =)
I think God will come physically a total of 2 times. Spritually, I think God will present Himself to destroy earth 1 time. All of this I gathered from the bible.
Totally agree Renita. I want to know what FTOS thinks. He hasn't answered yet.
FTOS, I’m going to take the heat away from you and Joshua for a bit. Here is what I have to say: you really believe all you are taught at Wmscog ???
Fight me. Leave Joshua alone. I hate that. He is a decent guy.
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