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I think I'm out. at the church that i go to everything is lies. I notice how everybody, even though they smile at the members, they are the first ones to talk behind their back. Everything has to be reported, everything has to be said. Now we have Zion University, we are not allowed to tell anybody. Also they started Joshua's Movement, we have to preach to 5 people every day, tell our deacon who will tell the pastor and then they add it, like a competetion between churches. It seems more like the hunger games in here than in a church of christ.
The sermons are not making sense, a lot of lies, a lot of verses taken out of meaning. They made videos called the armor of god where they try to say that everything people say in the internet is a lie. Misisonary Victor made one video talking about Ron Ramos, the same video of the truewmscog and then they made it into an Armor of God video. For the first time I saw the whole ron ramos video and I can understand it now, I don't think he is lying. I know about the abortions. I understand what he means when he said "its not what is said but what is not said".
I'm still so scared to leave though… I don't know if its satan tricking me or if im really not in the truth
yes but don't worry my brother, I think you have forfotten one thing don't you remember. You came in this world alone and will go alone this is the fact. No one can take their family & Property with them. you think they (COG) will harm you some how yes because it is prophesy.
John 11: 48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
They all are afraid of you because you know the truth.
John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
all my brother and sister now every one should forth much fruit. before you were not fall into ground before while you spend your time in WMSCOG.
Hobbit wrote:
Hi. It's just that everybody that leaves is demonized. Even though they say they are family, they are the first one to turn their back on you. I've been told not to talk with certain members that have left. So i'm just scared that if I leave I wont be able to take out the person I want out.
When I left wmscog, they told the other members not to speak to me anymore. Someone there contacted me and expressed concern and told me that she'll talk to the Pastor but then after that, she was not able to contact me anymore. Don't know what they told her but well, it is very effective. I suggest you collect proofs against wmscog….videos, articles and stuff. A lot of people here will help you with that. Then show it to that person. You can't do that if you get out first. They'll never let you in.
Hey Elie. Good to see you back. How have you been?
@Love – I don't think Hobbit is too concerned about what they will do to him. He is concerned about his friend and their relationship, which he is concerned, may be permanently lost if he leaves alone.11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Now guess what WMSCOG is doing they are promoting Zang Zil Zah. which you don't find in Bible.
Doing fine here, emil. Thanks for asking.
I second what emil said. Usually, relationship within the zion, stays inside the zion. They'll use a lot of biblical verses to support that which makes it harder for members to leave coz it will sound so legit.
Hey Emil, Those relation in WMSCOG is fake. they are no more a family if they were family they would have love us.
I have a suggestion for Hobbit. I think it is time for Hobbit to sit down with his friend and discuss frankly the things that have made him realize that this is a fake religion. Only, he should not come right out and say they are fake. Instead, he should tell his friend that he needs time to figure it all out and he will take a break from the wmscog. He must then tell the friend that it is likely that they will tell a whole lot of lies about him when he takes a break. You guys can fill him in about the kind of lies they tell so that he can prepare his friend to hear them.
After that preparation, he must let his deacon/missionary know that he is quitting. When he has left, they will say all sorts of things about him, more so to his friend. His friend, having been warned beforehand, will see the lies for what they are since Hobbit had already shared what makes him uneasy. This will help open the friend's eyes as well.
Suppose his friend is a deacon or missionary? You never know it could happen
If'a you fren readink korean, ask'a him/she what say this'a rink:
http://www.jesus114.org/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=bbs02_01&wr_id=309&page=
Hobbit wrote:
My friend doesn't have a title but has a lot of "faith". What I'm doing is studying a lot and getting to understand why is the church a cult. After I'm planning to start slowly to tell my friend about some thing that don't make sense. Hopefully my friend will get to the same conclusion. If it doesn't work, then ill leave.
I'm really wasting my life and I can feel how I'm wasting my years. I was reading the comments of the people lying for the church… While they are lying they are the ones being affected. I don't think I can take much more
imo, concentrate on the controls moreso than doctrine. why? the psychological research is clear that once people develop an attitude/behavior/new worldview, new information (information contrary to what has been taught and reinforced) has a high chance of creating what is called cognitive dissonance. in layman's terms, this means that the brain is trying to make sense of something that is….confusing, for lack of a better term. thus, emotions will rule and default to the group for support. I suspect that by "faith" that this means that this is what it is called, but in a pseudo-religion faith is cohesiveness to the group, conformity, and obedience. Only use doctrine where you find contradictions and ask your friend what they think of these contradictions; this forces people to think; do not answer for them. Part of the process that high-control groups do is altering the neural psychology, which lessens "upper cognitive" thinking, or critical thinking. When one no longer critically thinks then one can be easily manipulated by fear and other primal emotions.
getting back to cognitive dissonance, new information has a tendency to simply be re-arranged to lessen one's cognitive dissonance. I will use something not related to religion/faith as an example. Mary has decided to date both Todd and Jim for two weeks. Mary decides at the end of two weeks that she likes both men equally, but she decides to stop dating Todd and to continue dating Jim. Mary will end up liking Jim even more, convincing her that she made the correct choice. However, this is a basic psychological result of cognitive dissonance that any psych major should be aware of from psych 101.
as it relates to your/your friend's situation, cognitive dissonance can end up reinforcing your friend's "faith" and create an even stronger bond to the group, even though it is the result of an internal psychological process and not derived from bona-fide religious faith; the stimulus is missappropriated. And this is the problem with high-control groups. things are internalized. You'll hear "I make my own decisions" ad nauseam. I know psych and sociology majors and graduate degree holders that have been or are in high control groups and even they couldn't/don't recognize what was/is happening. Which leads us to information control….there are way too many ways to bind people and each pillar of control reinforces 2-3 others.
all of that being said, having a fellow "dissenter" ups the chances for success.
but realize all of the influence around you is vastly outweighing your influence if you are in a group setting. for obvious reasons, you want to be 1-on-1.
emil is wise to recommend an education of what happens to people that leave.
Best of luck to you, Hobbit.
Hobbit wrote:
My friend doesn't have a title but has a lot of "faith". What I'm doing is studying a lot and getting to understand why is the church a cult. After I'm planning to start slowly to tell my friend about some thing that don't make sense. Hopefully my friend will get to the same conclusion. If it doesn't work, then ill leave.
I'm really wasting my life and I can feel how I'm wasting my years. I was reading the comments of the people lying for the church… While they are lying they are the ones being affected. I don't think I can take much more
I would stay away from using that with your friend. If there is one thing members get highly defensive about, it is that others call them a cult. The definition is highly subjective and can be used to call almost anything a cult.
Stick with subtle questions that your friend will need to answer for himself. The questions can be both about the control mechanisms as well as doctrine. Don't attempt to answer the questions for your friend as Q has recommended.
That was quite a contradictory hodgepodge
emil wrote:
Hobbit wrote:
My friend doesn't have a title but has a lot of "faith". What I'm doing is studying a lot and getting to understand why is the church a cult. After I'm planning to start slowly to tell my friend about some thing that don't make sense. Hopefully my friend will get to the same conclusion. If it doesn't work, then ill leave.
I'm really wasting my life and I can feel how I'm wasting my years. I was reading the comments of the people lying for the church… While they are lying they are the ones being affected. I don't think I can take much more
I would stay away from using that with your friend. If there is one thing members get highly defensive about, it is that others call them a cult. The definition is highly subjective and can be used to call almost anything a cult.
Stick with subtle questions that your friend will need to answer for himself. The questions can be both about the control mechanisms as well as doctrine. Don't attempt to answer the questions for your friend as Q has recommended.
Oh how I long for the good ol days, when you could legally grab your brainwashed loved one off the street, lock them in a room (in a log cabin on a lake) and UN-brainwash them. Unfortunately it is now illegal in our great nation to forcibly save your loved ones life.
I was told that a member was told “Mother said” that they can keep only one Sabbath day service and no 3rd Day service and they will still be saved. So it sounds like if you can get your friend to only keep one service a week the mind might be more receptive to hearing other information.
Sorry about all the hearsay but it just might work because “Mother said”
I wonder what would happen when mother dies.
Information control of course. They will not tell anyone that she died! There will be more more visiting trips to Korea. How else will the non Korean speakers find out? Hopefully since she’s chairperson of We Love You foundation there will be some media about it and somehow we will get word.
They will have answers for everything or a double could be set in place. Anything is possible with these folks.
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