- Topic
Every so often I try to spend some time trying to understand the mindset of the WMSCOG. I go to their website and read some of the stuff they are preaching to their members. Without doing any studying or research outside of what is written it seems ok. This is where the problems start. There is enough truth to make it seem real but upon further inspection and holding it up to the Word of God you realize that it falls apart and you ask yourself, "How can people really fall for this?"
Once again this morning I looked at a sermon titled: Let Your Manner of Life be Worthy of the Gospel.
I was only able to get through part of it before I was fed up with it. For your consideration I give you part of what is written and my thoughts about it.
Sermon: For 6,000years God has been unceasingly working to fulfill the prophecies.
Thought: Doesn't the WMS believe that God created the world? The WMS teaches that Adam and Eve were not the first humans. It sounds like God was not at work at all prior to Adam and Eve. I will NEVER believe something like that.
Sermon: If we want to conduct ourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel, we should give rather than receive. If we would like to receive, we may give others trouble or loss mentally or materially. It is not a manner worthy of the gospel.
Thought: I have personally seen as well as heard of the mental and material loss created by the WMSCOG. Putting that aside my question would be, "What's with the Tithe and Offering envelopes that are named and forced onto members in the various Zions?" Now member, don't try to deny this. The WMS teaches and pushes that you do not enter the house of god empty handed. This creates both a mental burden as well as a material burden. This is not a manner worthy of the gospel!
Sermon: He who wants only to receive is like a man who drinks seawater to quench his thirst; the more he drinks, the more he feels thirsty. Such a man is never satisfied.
Thought: The WMSCOG keeps sucking off of their members, the salt of the earth, and is never satisfied. They also strive to create this type of situation mentally in their members. When a member has a question (thirst) they tell them that they have a study for that (seawater) and that the members need to study more (drink more seawater). This leads to more questions (thirst) and to more studies (drinking seawater). This is how they keep their members trapped but believing that they are thinking for themselves. Aren't these questions from their own minds? Are they? The questions seem to stem out of what they have been taught. How does the WMS know when the teachings have been effective? When the member ask certain questions that lead to more studies. It's entrapment folks.
Sermon: Since the new covenant was destroyed by the Devil,
Thought: On this rock I will build my church and the gate of Hell shall not prevail against it.
Sermon: our God has restored all His decrees and laws including the seven annual feast of three times.
Thought: Galatians speaks openly to this. "But now, after that you have known God, or rather known of God, how can you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labor in vain." This book also addresses the feast as being a bondage.
The WMSCOG desires to imprison you, waste your efforts, and control you for their purposes. This is NOT a life worthy of the gospel. I had to stop there for now. Everytime I visit any of the WMS controlled websites I feel a overwelming dread by their words of deception. I feel somehow infected with sin. Please understand that I wish to expose everything that I can to you but I also have a desire to see you researching materials yourself. The truth will set you free. God gave you a mind and he expects you to use it for His glory. This is worthy of the gospel.
I do not desire to literally play devils advocate but I would like to address two things you said in there to keep in mind, it is all great but for the sake of things.
Based on how I thought in WMSCOG when similar contradictions came up:
Sermon: For 6,000years God has been unceasingly working to fulfill the prophecies.
Thought: Doesn't the WMS believe that God created the world? The WMS teaches that Adam and Eve were not the first humans. It sounds like God was not at work at all prior to Adam and Eve. I will NEVER believe something like that.
One could argue that the prophecies began with Adam and Eve even though God's work was sooner.
I of course would counter that even leading the evolution of Man Kind towards Adam and Eve is still working towards fulfilling the prophecies in another manner.
My other thought is actually two fold based on my experience at WMSCOG. This is one I have been struggling to resolve myself so I am curious about this one.
Sermon: Since the new covenant was destroyed by the Devil,
Thought: On this rock I will build my church and the gate of Hell shall not prevail against it.
First of all if the church is temporarily destroyed but it is restored Hell hasn't really prevailed against it.
Another thing is I have had people (even outside WMSCOG) explain that it more properly means those who truly enter into God's church Death will not prevail against them (not the church)
Of course the rest of the malarky but I wanted to address the two concerns because it is important we can answer their replies and based on my personal experience that is what would arise and I figured I could address the one I experienced and knew how to answer as for the second I am sure we can find an answer for if it should arise again?
I feel you really addressed the sermon well though Joshua
I was taught that adam and eve were the first humans because the difference between humans and cavemen is the breath from god. Adam and eve are considered human beings because they believed in god. The cog gave reference to many verses where people who didn’t believe in god were called beasts. They weren’t the only people on earth but they were first humans.
A possible reason why members of the church can read the sermons and see them as reasonable is because they may have little to no prior knowledge of the bible. I know I'm not an expert at all, even close so what I heard from the people kind of made sence, but then I checked on the internet and saw it was all BS (before they told me the internet was all lies of course :] ). Also when I had visited the chuch, one girl (that had converted from catholicism) said she had never used the bible before joining.
Its not your job to know the difference between people who believe in god and people who don’t. Otherwise jesus would’ve said preach only to people who don’t believe. And its important because there are people who believe the creation was literal. Some believe it is prophecy. Some believe its neither. I honestly believe it is very important to understand the bible in its truth. To say it doesn’t matter whether adam and eve were this or that is to say it doesn’t matter how the bible is interpretted. Whether the cog is right or wrong, understanding the scripture is important. That’s why they have the study about who were the first people and such.
Thanks hal for saying that. That is exactly what I was taught but couldn’t put my finger on it.
The cog believes there had to be other people but they weren’t gods people.
I'd like to know why Cain gets a mark of protection, seven times over, is blessed with a son (Enoch), and then goes on to build a city. He is prospered like that for his selfish sacrifice? Or for killing Abel? Cain was the asshole brother, why did he get all the prosperity? And like you said Hal, if there weren't other humans, where does Cain's wife come from? Or the people to fill that city?
renita.payno wrote:
The cog believes there had to be other people but they weren't gods people.
yes..my friend told me adam & eve were the first humans with souls, the other people around when cain got married where people without souls….like cavemans
also the bible says the sons of God saw the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married them. The Nephilim were on the earth in those days-and also afterward-when the the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heros of old, men renown.(not quite sure what is meant by this)
see Genesis 6:1-4 ( NIV)
Based on this information are we to assume that if there were other people they were not living beings?
Joshua, the wms says (as told by my friend) that the walking dead is everyone outside the truth. People who have not celebrated the feast of God, kept sabbath & follow God's commands. They are the walking dead because they have no idea how to be save.
Another agrument that could be made here is that incest occured in the beginning
I believe he said at the time of Adam & Eve there was no law, therefore no sin was committed.
where there is no law to break, there is no sin. Man believed in God in the time of Noah and the law came after the flood with Moses & the 10 commandments…(something like that…please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, perhaps Simon or Renita would know best they are Xmembers) but I will verify with my friend.
right, I see your point, and a good one it is. I also don't quite understand this on Genesis 6, about the sons of God marrying the daughters of men, makes me wonder if the sons of God are Angles or are we(humans) the sons of God , which is confusing because if they were marrying the daughters of men (humans)??? then could they be the ones without the soul Spirit of God,(the children) for they were wicked in that generation. oh my I think I just confused myself even more, I don't think I'm saying this right…lol..sorry…the part that confuses me is human beings began to increase on earth…..and daughters were born to them…the sons of God married the daughters of humans??? I was under the impression that the sons of God were the angels, which were us….who were kicked out of heaven..so how is that sons of God marry human daughters, so are their children like half Sons of God & half human??? Do you understand what i'm trying to say. Then God says that his "Spirit"will not contend with humans forever, any idea what this all means???? anyone….
Genesis 6
6 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
The cog teaches that adam and eve represent many things. Not that they are literally these things. What teach is that adam and eve were literally the first people god recognized as human beings because they believed in god. In sense, yes everyone else are the “walking dead” but not like zombies. They were described as beasts. Its like me saying that a child molester is a beast. Even though he is clearly human with arms, legs, innards, even speaks my language, because of the things he does I see him as a beast. Well, as it was taught to me, people who did not worship god were described as beasts. Not that they were literally beasts.
It is also taught that some of the things adam and eve did allow us to see how god works and who god is. Meaning in some parts of their lives, adam and eve represent god.
It is also taught that some of the things adam and eve did us to see ourselves. Meaning, in some parts of their lives, adam and eve represent us.
Renita what do you know about Genesis 6: 1-4 ? Can you give me your expertise?
That line deals with the spirit or soul of man, made in the image of G-d
ah I see what you mean I always taught of a physical body when I read that line, but your right God is spirit, therefore we are in his image. The Spirit! (although I'm still not sure why would he say male & female.
Hal, what is the difference between the soul & the spirit? and would you be able to explain Genesis 6 1-4?
KF, in the OT the term "sons of God" seems to refer to angels, not humans. (i.e. Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7) Despite what the COG would have you believe, we humans are not the fallen angels mentioned in scripture. Jude 1:6 says "And the angels who did not stay within their position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in chains under eternal darkness until the judgement of the last day." 2 Peter further reinforces this by saying at 2:4 "For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to the chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgement." First Corinthians 4:9 further differentiates when it says " For I think that God has exhibited us apostles as last of all, like men sentenced to death,because we have become a spectacle to the world, to angels and to men. "
The punishment for the fallen angels would seem to exclude them from being men, whom God gave dominion "over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." As for the children produced by this union, I would think it makes them half human half angel. The bible calls them "nephilim" which some take to mean "giants." Either way, these beings were all swept away in the deluge less than a chapter later. None of them around anymore.
Thanks for the verses Brother, however I can not agree with you on this one:
"nephilim" which some take to mean "giants." Either way, these beings were all swept away in the deluge less than a chapter later. None of them around anymore.
Of course they are still around, they are called NBA players these days, Shaquille o'neal, Ralph Sampson, Yasutaka Okayama, Gheorghe Muresan, Manute Bol, Shawn Bradley, Yao Ming, Chuck Nevitt, Mark Eaton, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, etc. etc…… I KEED I KEED>>>LOL (:
Omg, I remember watching guys like Muresan, Bol, and Bradley growing up. Seeing those guys, and the likes of Shaq, and the super-freak of nature athletes we have now like Blake Griffin or Calvin Johnson or Zdeno Chara I could see making a case for "nephilim" 😉
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