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This comment was originally posted on Zahng Gil Jah's Ex-Husband's Side Of The Story? on 01/23/13:
keshab Dhungel Ithari church, Nepal says:
i believe she is our mother. without dought i am saying she is our heavenly mother.if we want to get salvation then really we should have to believe god the mother.
Genny I'm listening going through your explanations, and I don't care if you believe me or not but I've heard them already, even the one elie made, the REASON, i'm trying to debate it is because I've already debated them with myself before not asking a WMSCOG pastor on what is the answer but becuase i've already question it and debated with myself. coming to a conclusion.
lets all go to eli's forum
The Passover topic can be discussed in the Forum titled The Passover vs. the Lords supper. The topic about the prophecy about the little horn and the three uprooted horn can be continued here. We must organize this to avoid confusions.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Genny I'm listening going through your explanations, and I don't care if you believe me or not but I've heard them already, even the one elie made, the REASON, i'm trying to debate it is because I've already debated them with myself before not asking a WMSCOG pastor on what is the answer but becuase i've already question it and debated with myself. coming to a conclusion.
But are you willing to consider that another interpretation may also be valid?
yea if it is valid of course but it has to be valid,
Hal wrote:
fromtheotherside wrote:
I should say there is the passover of the OT which is for Jews and the Passover in the NT which Jesus kept
Actually Yeshua kept the tradition of unleavened bread and wine as many jews do. It is done on the Shabbat as a custom and on all commanded and uncommanded holidays. It is merely wrote in the various accounts of the disciples that he made a new covenant.
FTOS is trying to point out that Jesus did not keep it EVERY year just because it was not stated in the Bible. I think he is one of those "solo-scriptura" people that we have previously talked about.
O so now whos taking this to a personal level. ^^ don't get huffy puffy on me now
I see no personal attacks from Elie
Simon wrote:
I see no personal attacks from Elie
Seems that FTOS takes all the comments we do here personally.
It’s ok. We mean well. Just give it time.
you talk about our church so harshly
of course, the New Covenant is the Lord's Supper including all the other regulations of the New Covenant
what is the Lord's Supper then? what must we call it? Is not Passover the Lord's Supper?
Was Jewish Passover kept with Bread and Wine? "No" right?
Can't we believe what Jesus said in Luke 22:20 …this cup [Passover wine] is the New Covenant in my blood …
so can we not call the Passover (Lord's Supper) kept with bread and wine (meant for both Jews and Gentiles) the New Covenant?
Lord's Supper(1 Co. 11) kept with bread and wine
> New CovenantPassover (Mt. 26, Lk. 22) kept with bread and wine
> New Covenanthere what does the Bible says about the Passover kept by Jesus? is this the Passover kept by the Jews or not?
Is not the Jewish Passover kept with slaughtering lambs?
another thing, look at this metaphor
Let's say Your birthday is on January 14, 1990, can we reason out that we celebrated Your birthday with the ceremony of celebrating the birthday with a party and cakes when we keep it every first Sunday, every week, any other day just because you want it? will you change your age just because of that?
In the same way, can we say that the ceremony of the bread and wine kept on any other day become the Passover?
Of course not! that would be a foolish interpretation.
Sarah2013 wrote:
Why do you believe she is God the mother. There is no such thing. I know the mother and a father teaching is what is making you feel so. But see.. god is not like man. Just because he created man and woman doesn't mean that he, a spiritual being, has to have a mate.
If God has no mate, why would a Lone God say "Let us…" if He has no mate or if He's alone?
Why does that Lone God has to say
"male and female", not male alone?
If you're going to tell me that He's an Almighty and Omnipotent God you may say so. I do believe that God is Almighty and can everything.
But anyway, what does Genesis 1:26-27 says?
Does it talks about the Majesty and Omnipotence of God? What's the basis of creating Man?
Is not Male and Female image of God the basis of creating Us? What does this show?
This shows us that a Male God exist as Father and a Female God exist as Mother.
Also, if the "US" in Genesis refers to Trinity, that would be invalid.
Trinity refers to Three Images of God the Father, but none of them has the Female Image and also there must only Two Images of Man – Male and Female in verses 26-27
Welcome to the site, Kulokoy, I am glad you are posting here. But I have to ask, Mother said not to go on the internet to sites critical of the church, and yet you are here. So why don't you obey Mother if she is God? Why the double standard where the internet is concerned? Aren't you happy just to go on your own sites (which I find funny also because if the internet is so evil, then why does the wmscog have sites all over the place and you tube videos, etc.?) ? It seems like there are double standards again there. Why can't my son look on this site if he is a member in good standing? His recruiter looks here all the time, and then tries to use my postings to separate me and my son. Yet they don't let my son look. He could see what I am posting first hand and it wouldn't have to be heresay. I am not at all ashamed of any posting, and I don't put my son down. I simply say that I am upset that he is in a "church" that exploits him and tries to separate him from his family.
Also, look at the other comments on this site, the entire thread, and it will put to rest why we don't believe there is a mother God,(as if knowing she falls asleep during sermons wasn't enough.) And why isn't her picture on the calendars this year? Is the church phasing out the "Mother" and planning to announce a new "deity?" Perhaps Joo Cheol Kim? Or another figurehead that is female? Just my thoughts. My opinions are my own.
MountainMom, you're so right. They get payed to perform the same play over and over again. Going to a movie or theater is more fun and cheaper and it doesn't seperate families. And you can choose your own play.
Welcome brother kulokoy. We are glad to have you here and hope we can discuss in a civilized manner. Let us take your comments as they occur in your post.
kulokoy wrote:
you talk about our church so harshly
I am a Catholic. Trust you are aware about the things that your church says about my church. Compare it with what you see here. Here are people writing about their actual experiences of being members or having their loved ones in the wmscog. What you guys say about the Catholic church is based on debatable interpretations of prophecy as well as a gross distortion of history.
of course, the New Covenant is the Lord's Supper including all the other regulations of the New Covenant
what is the Lord's Supper then? what must we call it? Is not Passover the Lord's Supper?
Was Jewish Passover kept with Bread and Wine? "No" right?
Wrong. The bread and wine, including the blessing, is an integral part of every Jewish family meal. It is not just a regular feature of the Jewish passover, it is a part of every feast meal or probably every Sabbath meal too.
Can't we believe what Jesus said in Luke 22:20 …this cup [Passover wine] is the New Covenant in my blood …
so can we not call the Passover (Lord's Supper) kept with bread and wine (meant for both Jews and Gentiles) the New Covenant?
Jesus never said the passover wine at all. This is added by the wmscog (100% biblical? – says who?)
Lord's Supper(1 Co. 11) kept with bread and wine
> New CovenantPassover (Mt. 26, Lk. 22) kept with bread and wine
> New CovenantAs I said, not just the passover but every Jewish meal had the bread and wine.
here what does the Bible says about the Passover kept by Jesus? is this the Passover kept by the Jews or not?
Yes. Jesus kept the Jewish passover.
Is not the Jewish Passover kept with slaughtering lambs?
Ah now you're getting to the point. The Jewish "Passover" was kept by the slaughtering of lambs. What in the New Covenant replaced the slaughter of the lambs? Not the bread and wine. That was not the replacement because the bread and wine was always there and still is. The replacement was the slaughter of the lamb of God. Once for all time. So we see that the main NC change is the death of Jesus on the CROSS. But the original passover celebrated more than that. It celebrated the liberation from Egypt and slavery. What happens in the NC? The liberation from death for us. When does it happen? The moment when Jesus rises from the dead. Halleluiah! So the passover for us in the NC must be the death and resurrection of Jesus, the only Christ.
another thing, look at this metaphor
Let's say Your birthday is on January 14, 1990, can we reason out that we celebrated Your birthday with the ceremony of celebrating the birthday with a party and cakes when we keep it every first Sunday, every week, any other day just because you want it? will you change your age just because of that?
In the same way, can we say that the ceremony of the bread and wine kept on any other day become the Passover?
Of course not! that would be a foolish interpretation.
Totally agree with you that you should celebrate the Jewish passover only once a year. As a Christian, my passover celebration is the celebration of the death and resurrection of my Saviour. That I do on Good Friday and Easter Sunday, those days being the closest to the actual event as per the most accurate estimation of a solar year.
As far as the bread and wine are concerned, you should be arguing with Jesus and the early church as to why they kept it so frequently. If you have read the Gospels, you might be aware that Jesus did the same at Emmaus on the day of his resurrection, a Sunday, just a few days after the Jewish passover. And then there are those early Christians described in Acts chapter 2. What freaks to celebrate the bread and wine daily? NOT.
The problem for you WMSCOG guys is that you have no clue what the passover actually was. You think Zion is in Seoul and you apply the Korean environment and culture to the Israel of the bible rather than the other way around. Get this. Zion is not WMSCOG.
kulokoy wrote:
If God has no mate, why would a Lone God say "Let us…" if He has no mate or if He's alone?
Why does that Lone God has to say
"male and female", not male alone?
There are many other logical ways you can interpret the "us" in Gen 1:26-27. One interpretation is the Trinity, three persons in one God. Second is the fact that the Angels were already existing. Third, and the one I most lean to, is the majestic plural that used by some scripture authors to describe an omnipotent God.
If you're going to tell me that He's an Almighty and Omnipotent God you may say so. I do believe that God is Almighty and can everything.
But anyway, what does Genesis 1:26-27 says?
Does it talks about the Majesty and Omnipotence of God? What's the basis of creating Man?
Take a look at Genesis chapter 2. What does it say? It shows that Gen 1:26-27 is only a short-form description of events. Genesis 2 is the detailed version. In this detailed version, Adam was created long before Eve was. It was not a one-shot incident in which both were created together. Food for thought? Lets go further.
Is not Male and Female image of God the basis of creating Us? What does this show?
This shows us that a Male God exist as Father and a Female God exist as Mother.
God is Spirit. What is male and female? It is gender. What is the purpose of gender? To increase and multiply and fill the earth. How is this done? Through sexual reproduction. Did God create Adam and Eve or anyone else through sexual reproduction? Certainly not. So why does God require to have any gender? He does not. Male and female describe our gender as beings created to sexually reproduce in our physical form. God created our spirits in His image, not our human bodies. So yes, both male and female human beings have been created in the spiritual image of God. If you take gender to indicate God's image and likeness, then what about lower animals? Were they too created in God's image and likeness?
Also, if the "US" in Genesis refers to Trinity, that would be invalid.
Trinity refers to Three Images of God the Father, but none of them has the Female Image and also there must only Two Images of Man – Male and Female in verses 26-27
Look at your Gen 1:26-27 again. It says "he" created them not "they". In "his" image he created them. Male and female "he" created them. Let us say a mother makes chocloates in a mold that is the shape of a woman for her two children. There are two chocolates, one each for her son and daughter. She wraps one in blue foil and the other in pink and gives the son and daughter. She has now made two chocolates that look like her, one is blue and the other pink. So I could say, "In her image she made two chocolates. Blue and pink she made them." Does it mean that there are two women; one blue and the other pink?
kulokoy wrote:
Sarah2013 wrote:
Why do you believe she is God the mother. There is no such thing. I know the mother and a father teaching is what is making you feel so. But see.. god is not like man. Just because he created man and woman doesn't mean that he, a spiritual being, has to have a mate.
If God has no mate, why would a Lone God say "Let us…" if He has no mate or if He's alone?
Why does that Lone God has to say
"male and female", not male alone?
If you're going to tell me that He's an Almighty and Omnipotent God you may say so. I do believe that God is Almighty and can everything.
But anyway, what does Genesis 1:26-27 says?
Does it talks about the Majesty and Omnipotence of God? What's the basis of creating Man?
Is not Male and Female image of God the basis of creating Us? What does this show?
This shows us that a Male God exist as Father and a Female God exist as Mother.
Also, if the "US" in Genesis refers to Trinity, that would be invalid.
Trinity refers to Three Images of God the Father, but none of them has the Female Image and also there must only Two Images of Man – Male and Female in verses 26-27
Actually the tirnity is Greek paganism that was inferred into the bible. It would specifically violate the Pentautuch.
<font size=”+1″><font face=”Georgia”><big>O</big>ne of the most cherished ideas of the pagans, absorbed by the Christians, was that of the trinity of Gods. The savior whom the entire Christian world worships at this time is nothing more than the continuation of the pagan trinity. The fact that this doctrine did not officially become formulated until centuries after Yahshua's death, attests to the fact that this doctrine does not come from Yahweh's Laws and prophets.</font> </font>
<font size=”+1″><font face=”Georgia”><big>
T</big>he New Bible Dictionary, 2nd edition by J.D. Douglass, page 1221, admits that the doctrine of the trinity does not come from the Scriptures, but from philosphy influenced by paganism.</font> </font><font size=”+1″><small><font color=”#000099″ face=”Arial”><big>TRINITY.</big> <u style=”font-weight: bold”>The word Trinity is not found in the Bible, and though used by Tertullian in the last decade of the 2nd century, it did not find a place formally in the theology of the church till the 4th century. It is, however, the distinctive and all-comprehensive doctrine of the Christian faith. It makes three affirmations: that there is but one God, that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit is each God, and that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit is each a distinct Person. In this form it has become the faith of the church since it received its first full formulation at the hands of Tertullian Athanasius and Augustine.</font></small></font>
<font size=”+1″><font face=”Georgia”><big>T</big>he <i style=”font-weight: bold”>Encyclopedia Britannica, Micropedia Volume 11, page 928, gives us the following facts about the trinity.</font> </font>
<small><font color=”#000099″ face=”Arial” size=”+1″><small><big>TRINITY</big>, in Christian doctrine, the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead. Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord" (Deuteronomy 6:4). <u style=”font-weight: bold”>The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. </small></font></small>
<font size=”+1″><font face=”Georgia”><i style=”font-weight: bold”><big>T</big>he Abingdon Dictionary of Living Religions, page 767, tells us:</font> </font>
<small><font color=”#000099″ face=”Arial” size=”+1″><small><big>TRINITY</big> (Ch). The Dogma, <u style=”font-weight: bold”>formulated authoritatively in fourth century church Councils, that Christians worship one God in three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and one substance.<br style=”font-weight: bold” />
Under pressure to explain to a hostile Roman world how Christians counted themselves monotheists, Christian apologists (notably Justin Martyr, d. 165) <u style=”font-weight: bold”>combined Johannine and <u style=”font-weight: bold”>Stoic-Platonic understanding of the term Logos ("Reason," or "Word") <u style=”font-weight: bold”>in order to maintain that the Son was both God's own self-expression and a being distinct from him.</small></font></small>
<font size=”+1″><font face=”Georgia”><big>W</big>e see that the term logos was defined by the Christians according to the interpretations of pagan influenced philosophers in order to promote a false pagan God-savior in the <i style=”font-weight: bold”>Encyclopedia Britannica, Volume 7, page 449.</font> </font>
<small><font color=”#000099″ face=”Arial” size=”+1″><small><big>LOGOS</big> (Greek:"word,"reason, or plan"), plural logoi, in Greek philosophy and theology, the divine reason implicit in the cosmos, ordering it and giving it form and meaning. <u style=”font-weight: bold”>Though the concept defined by the term logos is found in Greek, Indian, Egyptian, and Persian philosophical and theological systems, it became particularly significant in Christian writings and doctrines to describe or define the role of Jesus Christ as the principle of God active in the creation and the continuation structuring of the cosmos and in revealing the divine plan of salvation to man. It thus underlies the basic Christian doctrine of the pre-existence of Jesus.
<u style=”font-weight: bold”>The identification of Jesus with the logos was further developed in the early church but more on the basis of Greek philosophical ideas than on Old Testament motifs. </small></font></small>
kulokoy wrote:
you talk about our church so harshly
of course, the New Covenant is the Lord's Supper including all the other regulations of the New Covenant
what is the Lord's Supper then? what must we call it? Is not Passover the Lord's Supper?
Was Jewish Passover kept with Bread and Wine? "No" right?
Can't we believe what Jesus said in Luke 22:20 …this cup [Passover wine] is the New Covenant in my blood …
so can we not call the Passover (Lord's Supper) kept with bread and wine (meant for both Jews and Gentiles) the New Covenant?
Lord's Supper(1 Co. 11) kept with bread and wine
> New CovenantPassover (Mt. 26, Lk. 22) kept with bread and wine
> New Covenanthere what does the Bible says about the Passover kept by Jesus? is this the Passover kept by the Jews or not?
Is not the Jewish Passover kept with slaughtering lambs?
another thing, look at this metaphor
Let's say Your birthday is on January 14, 1990, can we reason out that we celebrated Your birthday with the ceremony of celebrating the birthday with a party and cakes when we keep it every first Sunday, every week, any other day just because you want it? will you change your age just because of that?
In the same way, can we say that the ceremony of the bread and wine kept on any other day become the Passover?
Of course not! that would be a foolish interpretation.
Actually the bread and wine was Pharisitic tradition that Jesus supplemented. Go to any Jewish household for the sabbath or any holiday and you will see the bread and wine tradition done every time.
So, you never address the double standard of why you can be on here but my son can't. Why don't you try explaining that? I don't mind you being on here, quite the opposite, but my son is a member in good standing and he can't access this site. he can only listen to G
's misinterpretations and skewed views. So why can't he come on here, and you can't even though you are disobeying Mother? Why throw in all this other stuff as a distraction? And why be so discouraged when people "talk about the church so harshly" when you do worse to other churches?Don't you even ask yourself these questions?
kulokoy wrote:
you talk about our church so harshly of course, the New Covenant is the Lord's Supper including all the other regulations of the New Covenant what is the Lord's Supper then? what must we call it? Is not Passover the Lord's Supper?
Was Jewish Passover kept with Bread and Wine? "No" right?
Can't we believe what Jesus said in Luke 22:20 …this cup [Passover wine] is the New Covenant in my blood …
so can we not call the Passover (Lord's Supper) kept with bread and wine (meant for both Jews and Gentiles) the New Covenant?
Lord's Supper(1 Co. 11) kept with bread and wine
> New CovenantPassover (Mt. 26, Lk. 22) kept with bread and wine
> New Covenanthere what does the Bible says about the Passover kept by Jesus? is this the Passover kept by the Jews or not?
Is not the Jewish Passover kept with slaughtering lambs? another thing, look at this metaphor
Let's say Your birthday is on January 14, 1990, can we reason out that we celebrated Your birthday with the ceremony of celebrating the birthday with a party and cakes when we keep it every first Sunday, every week, any other day just because you want it? will you change your age just because of that? In the same way, can we say that the ceremony of the bread and wine kept on any other day become the Passover ? Of course not! that would be a foolish interpretation.
how many companies did Jesus own ? Is there an ancestry.com for businesses we can check to see if anyone named the christ or messiah ran a fishing boat factory or perhaps he weaved rugs. Don't toy with these people who have lost their family members by spewing your worthless ridiculous, absurd and preposterous arguments. Go hang at the coffee shop with fromtheotherside, make sure he brings his i-pad, you guys can watch R rated movies over there.
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