- Topic
The WMSCOG is way wrong in just about every way possible. How can I say this? The Bible testifies against them. History doesn’t support them hence testifies against them. The people who are free from this group testifies against them. And quite possibly the most damning things of all is that their own god Ahnsahnghong testifies against them. The truth is not with them, in them, and has nothing to do with them. How much more should a person need to be able to break through the lies and deception of this group?
I wish I knew the answer to that question. My friend who is still apart of this church in North Jersey won’t even talk to me anymore about the facts that I try to present him. He’s so brainwashed and not willing to even consider that his church is so wrong! I’m still going to pray and try to reach out to him as much as possible w/o pushing him away.
Joshua wrote:
And quite possibly the most damning things of all is that their own god Ahnsahnghong testifies against them.
nonsense
Shimon can you show me a link to any of Ahnsahnghong’s books or writings where he says there is a god the mother? Not some scripture that you or your church has interpreted but honest to goodness transcript of Ahn stating this.
shimon wrote:
Joshua wrote:
And quite possibly the most damning things of all is that their own god Ahnsahnghong testifies against them.
nonsense
actually:
(계 20장, 21장, 22장) 은 천년왕국 후 되는 일이니 이점 특별히 주의하셔야 하겠습니다. (계 21장 1절) "새 하늘과 새 땅" 은 (벧후 3장 6-13절) 까지 읽어보시면 새 하늘과 새 땅이 나온다.
Revelation chapters 20, 21, and 22 talk about the events after the millennial kingdom so this point needs to be taken especially cautiously. (Revelation 21:1) “A new heaven and new earth” is recorded in 2 Peter 3:6-13.
"그 날에 하늘이 불에 타서 풀어지고 체질이 뜨거운 불에 녹아지려니와 우리는 그의 약속대로 의에 거하는바 새 하늘과 새 땅을 바라보도다" 하였다.
It is written, “That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.”
그런고로 (계 21장 1절) 새 하늘과 새 땅은 전세계가 불타버리고 1000년 왕국이 지난 후에 되는 일이다.
Therefore, the new heaven and earth in Revelation 21:1 will happen after the world is destroyed by fire and after 1000 years.
– Ahn Sahng-Hong, Problems with New Jerusalem, the Bride, and Women's Viels, Ch 16, available online.
Do you speak Korean or have a friend who can help you? When we look at the rest of Ahn's writings on our own, many of which are available at http://www.ncpcog.com, the picture becomes very clear that Ahn never believed in any mother god.
Your own church does not deny that Ahn Sahng-Hong wrote these other books. Instead, they tell you what those books mean, but their excuse does not match up with what the book says.
Here you have your god writing books, that you do not have in your posession, and that you had no idea about until they were brought up here. You don't see a problem with someone keeping "God's word" from you? Why do you not have a copy? Why are these books not sold in your bookstore?
If Ahn Sahng-Hong came back from the dead and said to you "I never believed in a mother god", would you believe him, or would you think it was a test? Can you disprove his own writings?
The burden of proof is clearly on the WMSCOG. Here we have Ahn's writings that say there is no mother god. Why should I believe your bible studies that say otherwise? These writings are not read in your church precisely because they go against the teachings of the WMSCOG. That's information control.
Except they were not brought up to me here first.
HE wrote about Mother in the preface of Unsealing the Seven Thunders in NINETEEN FIFTY-FIVE and in the green book to I might add.
Further how can we know that NCPCOG isn't changing what he wrote? You want it to be what he wrote because you want to prove WMC false you have as much probability of suffering confirmation biases as I do.
shimon wrote:
Except they were not brought up to me here first.
When and where did you find out about them?
HE wrote about Mother in the preface of Unsealing the Seven Thunders in NINETEEN FIFTY-FIVE and in the green book to I might add.
If the wmscog wants me to believe that, they ought to let me buy the book.
And again, as we discussed in another topic thread, 'mother' is not written about in the green book. (Who Did Ahnsahnghong Say Is The Last Adam? : https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=9 )
From my previous deacon
You would probably (not neccessarily you specifically) accuse them of mistranslating anyways.
Of course she is, He calls the bride the spring of the water of life…
shimon wrote:
From my previous deacon
when was that, approximately?
You would probably (not neccessarily you specifically) accuse them of mistranslating anyways.
If they have not mistranslated anything, then why would they need to worry?
Of course she is, He calls the bride the spring of the water of life…
No, go back to the other thread https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=9 and check. I wrote out all the possible places in the book you referred me to and not once did he talk about a 'mother god'.
He says Zion is where the water of life flows from, and that Zion is a city or place. He doesn't say that Zion is a person or 'mother god'. The wmscog says that, but Ahn didn't.
shimon wrote:
HE wrote about Mother in the preface of Unsealing the Seven Thunders in NINETEEN FIFTY-FIVE and in the green book to I might add.
quote it shimon. where is the evidence? you have no quote to back your statement up. i can not accept your word alone. the rest of his writings state otherwise
shimon wrote:
Further how can we know that NCPCOG isn't changing what he wrote? You want it to be what he wrote because you want to prove WMC false you have as much probability of suffering confirmation biases as I do.
because your church does not deny that Ahn wrote the books.
He says JERUSALEM is the source of the water of life not Zion. NOONE says Zion is God the Mother
ttr wrote:
shimon wrote:
Further how can we know that NCPCOG isn't changing what he wrote? You want it to be what he wrote because you want to prove WMC false you have as much probability of suffering confirmation biases as I do.
because your church does not deny that Ahn wrote the books.
The Cat in the Hat Dr Suess:
There once was a cat he wore a hat.
The cat was a brat that cat in the hat.
The brat of a cat did this and that.
The annoying old cat wearing the hat.
I changed the content but used a book title with an author I am sure you would aknowledge same idea…
shimon wrote:
Further how can we know that NCPCOG isn't changing what he wrote? You want it to be what he wrote because you want to prove WMC false you have as much probability of suffering confirmation biases as I do.
Sorry, I know I'm going back in the conversation a little, but you have a point here.
It's obvious the wmscog has changed Ahn's writings. They have already admitted to removing chapters and withholding the book "Problems with the New Jerusalem…". Plus we can see in their own editions of the green book changes that have been made.
How do we know the ncpcog hasn't also changed what Ahn wrote?
Well, I guess we don't know, especially not having several of their editions of the books. But they haven't shown any signs of it yet, and we do know the wmscog has a bad track record with this.
My point Joshua was you would admit he wrote cat in that hat but say he didn’t write that
Wmscog admits ahnsahnghong wrote a book called problems with new Jerusalem… but never said a thing about the specific text ncpcog claims is in it.
"History doesn't support them hence testifies against them."
Please explain to me the Ostrogoth empire and what event in their history had biblical significance.
Please explain to me the history of Arianism and what event in their history had biblical significance.
Please explain to me Quartodecimanism and why their entire practice is important for Christians to study.
Finally, please cite a source to me which describes how pre-700 ad Christian heretics were in fact being executed for little to no reason.
I could actually go on I've got a bookmark folder full of historical scholars, because accuracy is very important to me, because I believe that my God is a God of truth.
I'll cite them for you if you can't figure out how and why all them are important.
Fun fact: I am one of the least educated brothers in my church.
WMS brother wrote:
"History doesn't support them hence testifies against them."
Please explain to me the Ostrogoth empire and what event in their history had biblical significance.
Please explain to me the history of Arianism and what event in their history had biblical significance.
Please explain to me Quartodecimanism and why their entire practice is important for Christians to study.
Finally, please cite a source to me which describes how pre-700 ad Christian heretics were in fact being executed for little to no reason.
I could actually go on I've got a bookmark folder full of historical scholars, because accuracy is very important to me, because I believe that my God is a God of truth.
I'll cite them for you if you can't figure out how and why all them are important.
Fun fact: I am one of the least educated brothers in my church.
WMS brother, I'm going to redirect you to another thread for this:
https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=156
It's about research, and shimon and I were talking there about the historical research involving the 10 kingdoms and the year 538. Maybe you'd like to contribute to the conversation there?
Joshua wrote:
the problems with the WMS doctrine are too obvious to ignore.
Are you really open to finding the truth or are you just as closed off as a few of the other members posting here?
Those problems which are "too obvious" perhaps span from not doing the research.
As a matter of fact, I am a former "pagan" tried to study about witchcraft and "wicca" stuff because once upon a time I believed that the entirety of Christianity was one big humongous lie and i wanted to know exacty who to pray to in order to get real tangible world-affecting blessings.
Literally there is no reason at all to have 400+ denominations arguing about what is the true word of God. Theres only one word! And Jesus even showed up to repeat it to us and -give us examples- on how to do it. I knew Sunday was a lie, I knew communion made no sense, I knew christmas wasn't christian -long- before I joined the World Mission Society.
What blew me away was how they cited historical sources for the origin of each specific thing in Church history, and then correlated to how the bible said that each event would happen. And the fig tree study. I got baptised on the Fig tree study. That is an awesome study.
I am not indoctrinated, I actually attack the veracity of -anything- I want to believe in rather thoroughly. I am extremely good at tearing down liars and hippocrits. I joined the WMS because I used to make fun of my friend for joining a "cult" that worships "father and mother". My failure to poke holes in their theories astounded me. I have posed to them the same questions all of you have posted, only I found their answers to satisfactory, and observe this forum's lack
I have always been open to finding the truth, that has been my lifelong goal. I learned more about history in the World Mission Society than in any other institution made by man. God's wisdom suprised my friend, who is even a History Major.
I dislike being told that I am the one who is brainwashed when the bible literally -does- say word for word the things that we claim. Such as the reign of the beast, rebuilding zion, only a few people will find the narrow gate and be saved, "teach them to obey everything", the weeds and the wheat.
Following the link Genny provided…
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