[Hurt]

Hello, I am new to the forum as a membrler but I came across this site a couple months ago after my family member joined and I did research on wmscog. I don’t want to be to detailed or long, but I am going through the same thing as a family member that I’ve read other family members are going through. The thing is all I read are ex member comments or family members who still have a family member in the group. I haven’t came across an ex member who has shared his/her actual story and how their relationship with their loved ones are now or I haven’t come across a family member whose member came out and now they continue to have a relationship with this ex member today even if they are still recovering. The point I’m making is that I’m hopeless and helpless. And I’m sure many have and are dealing with this and I’m not saying I am special but it sucks is an understatement. I don’t have much family and it feels like I have lost this person and that they are dead. I know that this person is making their own choices and that if they are happy, it shouldn’t affect me, but it’s hard to come to terma when this person can’t fit you in their life and when they are financially instable just to spend more time with this cult. This family member is ADDICTED and also in a somewhat abusive relationship as has been discussed. The thing is, no one answers on HOW do you deal or handle to an ADDICT or a person who won’t leave an abusive relationship. My family member joined on her own will as many do; she was preached at on our college campus. And the advice I have gotten, is that she will leave on hher own. I understand that you can’t help a person who doesn’t want to be helped, but how do I approach this. Ive obviously been doing what is not advised, kind of treating her bad and pushing her away. Our guardian has also been affected and treats her much worse because she is so hurt by this. But even when I try to be objective but stern especially about money situation, my family member twist my words and tries to make me look like a bad guy. My family membet claims to not care about money but is really cheap and greedy and gets annoyed when reminded about the financial responsibilities she owes. Also, our guardian, behind my back, has given this person money in order to pay rent despite hating the group and being hurt by this family member. Our guardian hid this from me and I feel ENABLED my family member’s addiction. The reason my family member didn’t have money, was because she didn’t have a job for the longest. This is one of the reasons she joined in the first place. She got fired from her job. Also, this family member was in a short lived abusive relationship and was very naive and believed what this other person would say; it was only until an incident happened between me and the abuser that she took action, but there were numerous incidences before this, and she stayed or got back together and didnt even like him that much, and even hid it from me. No one knows of this relationship but me. It’s hard. Ive been to a psychologist and they werent really help. They were and werent. Ive seen some of Hassan’s stuff and he first advises to get your shit together before trying to make an intervention. Which makes sense. The psychologist also told me to focus on myself. I do come across as miserable and angry with this family member which I. know pushes her more and more away and probably makes her think I need ASH more than anything. The thing is, we are going to officially go our separate ways soon because we won’t be living together. Im just afraid my family member will be in this forever. Im just sad okay. And I know I need to change my tactic and focus on myself, but Im just afraid that wont change anything. How did you leave? Did you have family members pushing you further, what did this cause in you? Please I need stories, I need hope.

[Hurt]

[Hurt]

@Hank I’m glad you are out and I am glad you posted here today for the first time. I am glad something in this discussion sparked something out of you. I too am relatively new to posting. I am glad you shared what you could. And I agree, love is the answer, unconditional love is key.

[Hurt]

@mountainmom thank you for sharing and I am sorry for the amount of time your son has been in the wms. I know first hand how hard it can be for mother’s in particular. I’ve seen it through my guardian and I’ve read it through other mothers here, including yourself. And I know I will never understand until I have children, the instinct to protect, nurture, and the feeling of fear and disappontment and anger and hurt for a mother when their child makes mistakes or perhaps does not fulfill my expectations, which for a fact, a parent and every human has. I know the mother’s of wms members take it really hard and react in certain ways that pushes the member deeper in. I’m postive youve done everything in your power to love and support your son. And you want to help him the best you know how. I for one believe there is hope for someone in it for that long. Ron Ramos left at 12 years and I’ve seen a documentary of an actor who was in a well known cult, that left after 14 years.

[MountainMom]

@Hurt:  Thank you for your comments.  When you find your son is in something like this, you tend to feel like he is in front of a semi headed downhill and your instinct is to pull him out of the way.  This plays into the hands of the cult leaders.  We thought we could reason with him as he always respected us so much and looked to us for advice.  Not so in this case.  They had him set up to resist way way before we even knew what was going on. Too bad we didn't know it, or have any idea of how to deal with a cult.  It really is a shock to your system when the kid you raised gives their trust to people who haven't earned it when your whole life was lived so that they can see you, yourself, are to be trusted, always.

[Hurt]

@mountainmom

The thing is, if what you have been doing has not worked for this long and has maintained things comfortably, you have to change it. I know this is easier said than done and I don’t mean to offend you by any means. But think about it, your son is also still in the wms because he is comfortable and fears change especially fears the consequences of leaving, so it’s kept him there. You might be doing the same, keeping the things the way they are and not changing the groove in fear like you said, you might cement him there. What I’ve learned about people and it might sound so obvious but we fail to do it, is that they can adapt, and are force to respond. If you change your tactic, it will catch your son off balance and he will have to adapt. I know this sounds manipulative but it’s not in a ungenuine way, more that it’s natural and you’d be doing it for yourself as well.

Let me put this in examples. Your action is love or specifically to support your son and this will always be the action. Actors also choose actions as well when acting and action is defined as something they want, and want from another character. The wms also has an action, and that action seems to control. Within these actions, different tactics are used, as we can see the wms uses to control the person; they control by lovebombing, by instilling fear, and guilr, and by giving false evidence that they use as logic.

Since your action is love, there are five languages of love and perhaps you are loving your son the way you know how to receive love and like to, and maybe in the way you always have. Your son is a different person. Not only primarily because he has the personality of wms but because of his age too. Humans are constantly changing, their tastes and interests and maybe even their ways they would like to be loved. The five languages of love include: words of affirmation, quality time, physical touch, gifts, and acts of service. You’ve mention that you call your son and that it’s hard to communicate with him since he rarely picks up or talks only about the church. Well maybe you should pay him a visit and spend some quality time with him. If the circumstances don’t permit, maybe you can find a eay soon. Maybe you can send him a meaningful package. The point is to try a different tactic even if it surprises you, it will definitley surprise him. I hope this makes sense and like I said, it’s easier said than done. But love seems to be the answer no matter what 🙂

[Hurt]

Your last comment about trust is universal, I too felt betrayed and angered and hurt at the person, but like I’ve said in other posts, it’s not about me or our feelings. I mean interms of what makes us happy. An ex member put a comment that she didn’t like how it was always about their family member’s feelings. That the family member would make it about them, but that she was making it about them by trying to save them and others. She said she liked it when her mother asked questions about the wms and seemed interested. This is not to be confused by suppressing your feelings, but more so removing yourself and realizing that this person isn’t your entore happiness so you shouldnt blame them for your entire hurt. There are other things that make you happy, like seeing this person happy which in this point is the wms which IS hard to face. But it’s not about me or how they betrayed the trust at this moment at least.

[MountainMom]

@Hurt:  You give good suggestions, and I am not offended at all.  I guess that over 6 and a half years, the situation was complicated to begin with, and is even more complicated now.  I have actually done about everything you have said to do, and more, even as recently as this summer.  I have read everything I can and done everything I know how to do, following the advice of experts.  He is so far away I can't do a lot of things that people whose kids are living with them do. 

I have had to stop spending all my time on him because I have two other great kids who need me to be present as a mother to them.  I have three grandchildren that need me to be happy and not grieving all the time.  I had to count my blessings, of which I have many, or I would have made those people in my life feel like they weren't enough.  I guess I just had to go on with my life.  I hope for the best with my son, but I have had to accept that there is really nothing I can do.

I now try to help others in my situation deal with their loved one's involvement. When helping other people avoid the agony I have gone through, it really helps me as well.  Kind of a therapy.

[David]

MountainMom wrote:

@Hurt:  You give good suggestions, and I am not offended at all.  I guess that over 6 and a half years, the situation was complicated to begin with, and is even more complicated now.  I have actually done about everything you have said to do, and more, even as recently as this summer.  I have read everything I can and done everything I know how to do, following the advice of experts.  He is so far away I can't do a lot of things that people whose kids are living with them do. 

I have had to stop spending all my time on him because I have two other great kids who need me to be present as a mother to them.  I have three grandchildren that need me to be happy and not grieving all the time.  I had to count my blessings, of which I have many, or I would have made those people in my life feel like they weren't enough.  I guess I just had to go on with my life.  I hope for the best with my son, but I have had to accept that there is really nothing I can do.

I now try to help others in my situation deal with their loved one's involvement. When helping other people avoid the agony I have gone through, it really helps me as well.  Kind of a therapy.

@Mountain mom, you don't know me but we have a mutual friend who told me that if it wasn't for you his/her loved one would have never gotten out and she/he thanks God everyday that you were there/here at their crucial time of need!!!

Apparently you saved somebody's life!!!!

XOXO/hugs and kisses/with much love and gratitude always!

[MountainMom]

David wrote:

MountainMom wrote:

@Hurt:  You give good suggestions, and I am not offended at all.  I guess that over 6 and a half years, the situation was complicated to begin with, and is even more complicated now.  I have actually done about everything you have said to do, and more, even as recently as this summer.  I have read everything I can and done everything I know how to do, following the advice of experts.  He is so far away I can't do a lot of things that people whose kids are living with them do. 

I have had to stop spending all my time on him because I have two other great kids who need me to be present as a mother to them.  I have three grandchildren that need me to be happy and not grieving all the time.  I had to count my blessings, of which I have many, or I would have made those people in my life feel like they weren't enough.  I guess I just had to go on with my life.  I hope for the best with my son, but I have had to accept that there is really nothing I can do.

I now try to help others in my situation deal with their loved one's involvement. When helping other people avoid the agony I have gone through, it really helps me as well.  Kind of a therapy.

@Mountain mom, you don't know me but we have a mutual friend who told me that if it wasn't for you his/her loved one would have never gotten out and she/he thanks God everyday that you were there/here at their crucial time of need!!!

Apparently you saved somebody's life!!!!

XOXO/hugs and kisses/with much love and gratitude always!

 Thank you so much for the kind words, and I am happy to help any time.  The people on this site give me hope!

[UntouchableJ]

Knowing certain truths helps. Here are some things to maybe consider if you get into a debate with a loved one who is still in. A “bread crumb” that helped lead me into free thought later, were the two members who died. The WMS never said you couldnt die, but they made it seem that way. They pitched, the Passover protects us, soooo much. A brother told me how one Brother who we would see from time to time, had a massive heart attack. Another members Mother, who was older, died of typical old-age issues. WMS never mentioned these things. My wife asked the overseer once, “What does the church/WMS do when a member passes on?” We were told they do a memorial service, and mention them, but WMS doesnt bury members. I dont beleive this. Other ex members have never seen a memorial service, nor, been informed when members die.

[UntouchableJ]

So, ask your family who is still in, “What happens to members who die?”. They may have been told that they will be part od the great multitude. This is a lie, because WMS in its early days in the US led members to beleive they wouldnt die.

[Azula]

What lead to me leaving was the Diane and Ron's testimonies simply because they had articulated so well and as authentically as they could the kind of poor treatment they had received in the cult. And they also talked about the emotional and financial ruin they suffered because of the cult. There is a saying by the late Maya Angelou and I am paraphrasing but it says, "Poeple may forget what you said, people might forget what you did but they will never forget how you made them feel."

And the treatment I had received from my former Korean masters was nothing short of abusive. Never have I been so belittled and disrespected my whole life and that's when I knew that Love/God was not in the cult and that's when I realised that I was worshiping a Korean-made god. Fortunately at that time I also came across this website and that also helped immensley.

 

[Hurt]

Azula,thank you for sharing and I am glad you are out. BTW, they are not your masters, you are not a slave and were not born to be a slave. A “religious” slave, nor a money slave. Those Koreans you call masters are as human as you and me. It saddened me when you said masters, you are an equal, we are all the SAME. And that is what infuriates me, they are hypocrites and believe not only that they are holier than others (despite that it says in one of the Romans that you shouldnt be righteous) and the believe they are holier than one another within the wms.

Again, I am glad you are out, and how did you come across Diane’s testimoney? Who is Diane? I have only seen Ron.

[Hurt]

@mountainmom thank you for sharing. Are you the only member who keeps in contact with your son? Does his siblings contact him? Do they try to involve him? How do you know he has been miserable? And where does he get the money to give generous amounts? I don’t mean to be so forward and maybe rude. I just want to view other’s dispositions with their members.

[MountainMom]

@Hurt:  No, we all try to keep contact.  His brother and sister talk to him, although not on a regular basis now because it is so hard to talk to him.  Every conversation is superficial because he has nothing to say that isn't about the church, and they won't listen to him preach.  They do try to involve him, but they aren't always successful. 

I know he has been miserable because he told me so several times.  He wants to be with us and I'm sure he misses us, but he just can't break free.  I think he is very conflicted all the time and very afraid. 

[Abhigail Delema]

When i joined this church they preached to me that who ever eats jesus body and blood will get eternal life as per Jn 6:53,so do you have jesus body and blood?They even preached openly that you will not die.They even showed the verse in 1 corhians 11:27-30,which says ,that is why many have fallen asleep,which you all know means dead.But the strange thing is when members died people or members are not informed ,then i noticed at least in my time in mumbai India ther were about 6-7 deaths in zion members were never informed the pastor said we should not be talking about this on the sabbath day.When i really investegated as to where they were burried or what was done i got to understand they were burried with the other denomination in a goverment cemetry with a false name of churh given as North indian church and members have signed for korean pastors at the burrial cemetry .Even though the members are poor and cant pay for the burrial the church or zion will not help.The leader will ask members who attend the funeral to pull in some money for the burrial.The best verse was also John 8:51 if anyone keeps my word he will never see death.This verse repeats after john 6:53 so basicaly it is the pass over or baptism that can save us,i have openly seen the decons and missionary preach this on the roads and get people baptized just to increase the number in zion.They openly told us that the people who die will be the multitude because they died for father and mother.There was a sucide case and i seen the pastor dumb trying his best to cover up because the whole family was in zion and were active preaching members.People in zion would ask would that member join the multitude. 

[UntouchableJ]

@Ahbigail. I honestly think, that they really believed that members couldnt die. But with their evolution, they learn to just not talk about it, if it happens.

[Hurt]

What is the difference between multitude (don’t know that term) and being the chosen 144000 or is it 14400? Which I don’t know the specifica about either

[setufree]

My breaking point was when something tragic happened and their promise of eternal life and living through car crashes and bullets was nothing more than a fairy tale that all the members have chosen to believe.

No one was allowed to mourn and when I wanted to mourn this situation I was made to feel like a terrible person.

Members carried on like nothing ever happened and death was something we were NOT allowed to talk about.

This happened to someone who kept feasts, Passover , tithed and was dedicated.

When I questioned about why such a tragedy can occur, I was told that they must have had hidden sin and this was punishment.

That comment disgusted me and that was the last straw.

[Selena]

@Hurt when I first joined the 144,000 was all of the members. By 2013 this had changed to being only a select few and we were to hope we were the 144,000. The Great multitude was everyone else in the organization that would die. Specifically, the 144,000 had the greatest faith and they would ascend to Heaven with mother. However, now I hear people saying that they say mother will die. Nothing ever adds up with them and everything is always constantly changing.

[Abhigail Delema]

@ Hurt    What is the difference between multitude (don't know that term) and being the chosen 144000 or is it 14400? Which I don't know the specifica about either

When i was in the church i was thaught that the Multitude are those who belived and died for christ during the dark age when they were forced to follow the RC church and were killed as per their evidence book so in the same way those who died in zion beliving in father and mother will join the multitude because they washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb (pass over) Rev 7:9-17

The 144000 are the ones who are sealed with the seal of god the passover which is also the seal of living god,as per their interpretion mother is living as the bible says not a dead god and the angel comming from the east is Ahn who brought the passover.Rev 7:1-4 ,not only that these are the ones who will be lifted alive with the twinkling of an eye when mother goes to heaven. 1Thess 4:13-17.So this is just a short summary i can tell you about their teaching or what i was thought.Zang beinging married and having children was all hidden and her love for money was never told to us but her sacrafice was always reminded with her patatoe sac on her head,she has a limo with the members money and Ahn son is her driver and her earthly phycial daughter is the chief pastors wife was hidden,which is like the hidden manna they thought me.Sorry guys by blood has started to boil.