- Topic
Hello, I am new to the forum as a membrler but I came across this site a couple months ago after my family member joined and I did research on wmscog. I don’t want to be to detailed or long, but I am going through the same thing as a family member that I’ve read other family members are going through. The thing is all I read are ex member comments or family members who still have a family member in the group. I haven’t came across an ex member who has shared his/her actual story and how their relationship with their loved ones are now or I haven’t come across a family member whose member came out and now they continue to have a relationship with this ex member today even if they are still recovering. The point I’m making is that I’m hopeless and helpless. And I’m sure many have and are dealing with this and I’m not saying I am special but it sucks is an understatement. I don’t have much family and it feels like I have lost this person and that they are dead. I know that this person is making their own choices and that if they are happy, it shouldn’t affect me, but it’s hard to come to terma when this person can’t fit you in their life and when they are financially instable just to spend more time with this cult. This family member is ADDICTED and also in a somewhat abusive relationship as has been discussed. The thing is, no one answers on HOW do you deal or handle to an ADDICT or a person who won’t leave an abusive relationship. My family member joined on her own will as many do; she was preached at on our college campus. And the advice I have gotten, is that she will leave on hher own. I understand that you can’t help a person who doesn’t want to be helped, but how do I approach this. Ive obviously been doing what is not advised, kind of treating her bad and pushing her away. Our guardian has also been affected and treats her much worse because she is so hurt by this. But even when I try to be objective but stern especially about money situation, my family member twist my words and tries to make me look like a bad guy. My family membet claims to not care about money but is really cheap and greedy and gets annoyed when reminded about the financial responsibilities she owes. Also, our guardian, behind my back, has given this person money in order to pay rent despite hating the group and being hurt by this family member. Our guardian hid this from me and I feel ENABLED my family member’s addiction. The reason my family member didn’t have money, was because she didn’t have a job for the longest. This is one of the reasons she joined in the first place. She got fired from her job. Also, this family member was in a short lived abusive relationship and was very naive and believed what this other person would say; it was only until an incident happened between me and the abuser that she took action, but there were numerous incidences before this, and she stayed or got back together and didnt even like him that much, and even hid it from me. No one knows of this relationship but me. It’s hard. Ive been to a psychologist and they werent really help. They were and werent. Ive seen some of Hassan’s stuff and he first advises to get your shit together before trying to make an intervention. Which makes sense. The psychologist also told me to focus on myself. I do come across as miserable and angry with this family member which I. know pushes her more and more away and probably makes her think I need ASH more than anything. The thing is, we are going to officially go our separate ways soon because we won’t be living together. Im just afraid my family member will be in this forever. Im just sad okay. And I know I need to change my tactic and focus on myself, but Im just afraid that wont change anything. How did you leave? Did you have family members pushing you further, what did this cause in you? Please I need stories, I need hope.
Hurt, it may seem like there aren’t rral answers. Two things I say work, Love and Patience. Here is why I say this based on my story, and myself and wife and kids coming out.
When we joined, and then later tried to preach to my mother, she was not a fan of WMS, and had seen the stories of ex members. But she stayed and showed us love. She treated my family with an unwavering love. When WE decided to leave she was there.
The Patience part….You’ll need to do research. Historical and Biblical. My wife started to open her eyes, when she tried to preach to a coworker who she was close to. This coworker was an Atheist, but very very knowledgable with history. Now, alot of the things he knew, I knew as well (but I ignored these points of knowledge, because I was brainwashed)
Some of these points for instance;
Moses as the bible even states, was taught in “the ways of the Amen priesthood of Egyot/Kemet” (Hell, Egyptian temples had inner courts, holy of holies, shew bread tables etc.) If you dig deep enough, a blind person can see the Jews stole much of their ceremonies rituals etc…..Hell, the 10 Commandments are DIRECT copies of the commandments of Ma’at.
Science- WMS teaches for instance in one study, that, “the Earth is suspended in space” We know, that statement is 0% true. The Earth is in a gravitational well, having its trajectory moved by the Suns gravitational pull. And, since space is void we know it isnt being held in anything.
I think with patience and love, when your loved one is ready, he/she will remember the points you have brought to the table, and the care you exhibited. Its hard hearing that it will only happen on their understanding…but thats what it takes. I remember once bringing to a Deacons attention, an error (a pretty big one) he made a blatant excuse and told me to ignore what I found. Now, I bring that up to state this….like in an abusive relationship, or a bad job, people stay because of issues within themselves. When their mind or spirit get strong enough to want healing…it will happen
Those are both very good points untouchablej. To add something to it, it's also a fact that there is no archaeological evidence that there were ever hebrew slaves in ancient Egypt. Bear in mind, it is widely known that the ancient egyptians were vigilant recorcd keepers and through archaelogical excavation, the history of the ancient empire is thoroughly understood. The reason I feel that this fact is such a bull'seye against the WMS is because their entire theology is built around the passover. If the original Passover which allegedy happened in 1498 is fictitious, then so are the rest of their prophecies that are built around it. I remind all who read this that I am not pushing atheism but rather truth based on facts and evidence.
Here is a source to validate my assertion: https://www.quora.com/What-archeological-evidence-exists-to-show-that-the-Hebrews-were-ever-slaves-or-even-just-lived-in-Egypt
It's just another fact you can bounce off of her to weaken then hold of their indoctrination.
@Brian I am with you. Evidence does, also point to that direction. I also am not pointing to atheism. But when it comes to Biblical faith..anybody, who beleives the Bible 100% has to come with many terms. I would ask your loved one, flip it even, and ask;
“Do you beleive the Bible is 100% accurate?”
When the WMS member says, “Yes” (with their Uber arrogance ) the knowing person will have to force them to answer some questions.
“Why does the bible say the Jews crossed the “Red” sea, when it was the ‘Reed’ sea?”
“Why does WMS teach that Solomon spoke about being an Angel in heaven, when Pro.8 never says that(Wisdom was speaking)?”
“Why does WMS use the NIV bible…which had been criticised because it changes scripture making them more easy to force interpret?”
Also when they add their thoughts challenge it against scripture.
They will read a scripture, then try to interpret it, FOR you. Dont allow this. (For instance, in one sermon they read Rev.7, and try to say the “Angel that hokds back the winds[war]” is God. But, the scripture says, “An Angel”, not God, Noth Ahnsahnhong etc.)
UntouchableJ wrote:
@Brian I am with you. Evidence does, also point to that direction. I also am not pointing to atheism. But when it comes to Biblical faith..anybody, who beleives the Bible 100% has to come with many terms. I would ask your loved one, flip it even, and ask;
"Do you beleive the Bible is 100% accurate?"
When the WMS member says, "Yes" (with their Uber arrogance ) the knowing person will have to force them to answer some questions.
"Why does the bible say the Jews crossed the "Red" sea, when it was the 'Reed' sea?"
"Why does WMS teach that Solomon spoke about being an Angel in heaven, when Pro.8 never says that(Wisdom was speaking)?"
"Why does WMS use the NIV bible…which had been criticised because it changes scripture making them more easy to force interpret?"
Also when they add their thoughts challenge it against scripture.
They will read a scripture, then try to interpret it, FOR you. Dont allow this. (For instance, in one sermon they read Rev.7, and try to say the "Angel that hokds back the winds[war]" is God. But, the scripture says, "An Angel", not God, Noth Ahnsahnhong etc.)
Thats true. Their teachings can't be ethically substantiated by history OR the bible.
In terms of the inconsistency of the cult for me one of the most confusing points was reading that the cult actually sues people in an effort to silence them. I can recall a story told by my then overseer of how the cult had been sued unsuccessfuly in Korea by babylon and overcame. I guess he negleted to mention the story of how elohim/ mama z enjoys slapping folks with lawsuits. Because if this is the same Jesus who came 2000 years ago then why did he not turn the other cheek? I mean if this is really the 2cc: Why did they not let their god take care of it?
Paul said be ready to “Prove your faith”. Why sue? If you are and have the truth…why sue former members. Mind you, the things people saying are not large stretches on reality. Nobody is photo shopping Zang as a bank robber. People are speaking about their experiences…(Lies, Extortion, Harassment, Belittlement, Racism ). I totally agree, if Zang is God, deal in judgment…but she can’t evem win a “Worldly” lawsuit so she can’t be God.
Hurt wrote:
I feel letting her get away with things I don't deem right, does not help her. And I feel like she interprets this as hate. I don't mean to come off so nasty, but I'm hurt and human.
Hello Hurt. I sympathize with you.
Sometimes it helps to decide which things are worth speaking up about now and which things can wait. You can try saying something like, "I disagree with that, but I don't want to argue about it right now." And change the subject.
And as mentioned before, do your research and be ready so that when something comes up in conversation you can have some well-placed comments or questions as seeds for her to think about, not to get into debates about every time.
Hi Hurt and other members. It is always hard for people who are in the cult, got out or still have family in the cult. I got out more than 3 years ago, after the failure of the prediction of the end of the world in 2012. I got in a few years before that, based on fear not to go to heaven with my beloved one, whom was in the cult for a longer period. Although I had my doubts I went along, 'just in case they were right". Now we all know they weren't right at all. My beloved is still in, it as hard to see that family is less and less important. Social things aren't important, just the group and putting down other religions, other people. The cult is the only point of arguing, you can't talk to a deaf person. I'm glad I'm out, I doubt my beloved one ever will, blind for the indoctrination, lies etc. My only hope is the eyes will open in 8 years, when Zang supposed to have died, according to the statement this generation will never pass (70-80 years) in 8 years she will be 80 and if she is still alive by then, they will invent a new lie to keep the members in and with that the big money.
@curtis Glad your out. Talking to new ex-members, they are now saying 2016. And yes, we know omce Zang dies, there will be a new lie.
Just curious, when 2012 come and go without anything happening, how many actually left, and how many chose to brush it off and countinued staying?
I talked to a few person in the wmscog when I was still a member, and those I talked to mostly joined around 2012, a period of time where I think older members expected the prophecy to come true so preached all the harder, while newer members were not let in on the prophecies as it is no longer taught officially so as to have a easier time cleaning up afterwards. I don't know of any commom member that joined before 2012, the ones I know are holding titles now. What happened in that year?
I was there before and after 2012. Not much happened. The doctrine changed after 2012. More lies were told to us. Members stayed. My Zion continued the same. The members never questioned too much. Some had issues with it. But my Zion quickly forgot about 2012. In 2013 head office proclaimed the “year of Jubilee.” The pastor felted very ashamed. The church kept on putting on their appearances.
We were told that the New Jerusalem temple was supposed to be completed in 2012. In other words all the people were supposed to be gathered by then. Now it’s almost 2016. Woot Woot. Happy (in coming) new year everyone.
Let me also quote ASH in his book The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and the Gospel. ASH specifically said in chapter 9 : “…if any part of a doctrine is altered or changed, it is false.”
@mayor Altered…happens alot at WMS. Not to mention, if anything a “prophet says doesnt happen, he is a false prophet”. WMS predicted 2012 as the end. It didnt happen. That is all
Mayor and Mike wrote:
I was there before and after 2012. Not much happened. The doctrine changed after 2012. More lies were told to us. Members stayed. My Zion continued the same. The members never questioned too much. Some had issues with it. But my Zion quickly forgot about 2012. In 2013 head office proclaimed the "year of Jubilee." The pastor felted very ashamed. The church kept on putting on their appearances.
We were told that the New Jerusalem temple was supposed to be completed in 2012. In other words all the people were supposed to be gathered by then. Now it's almost 2016. Woot Woot. Happy (in coming) new year everyone.
That's what I was told too
I have been reading this forum awhile but have never posted anything.
I have witnessed 8 interventions re, this group wms. (that includes my own)
Of those 8, 3 resulted in the member becoming free from the wms. Mine would make 4 but I prefer not to speak about my own for now.
Of the 3 "successful" interventions there was an overwelhming amount of family love. It was obvious these people loved eachother and the member very much. 2 of the 3 were in for just over a year and the other was in for just over 2 years. All 3 also told me I could write this as long as I didn't use their names
To me as an outsider, in each of those occasions there did seem to be some kind of family history that needed to be worked through. I'm not a therapist or an expert in that sort of thing but it was pretty obvious, that like most families, they had some baggage. I certainly won't divulge there's but I think you know what I mean.
The thing that struck me was, the members did not want to lose the love of their family but even with all that "family love" they still needed to hear something within the teachings of this group that could justify them walking away.
Something, anything that was so clearly wrong they could say to themselves, there it is, I'm out! (that was my opinion at the time but all of them have since confirmed it)
The problem of course is that the wms seems to have an answer for everything even the most obvious. My own story is a little different but watching these families holding back their anger (for the most part) and concentrating on the family love that each and everyone of them had for eachother, I never doubted their loved one would, in the end, find a way to save themselves. So to speak
Another similarity with these 3 was at some point all 3 members proposed the same offer, "How about if I only go once a week?"
I can only asssume those offers were made because the members were too afraid to leave completely, however, all 3 of those offers were flatly rejected by their families BUT they all said they appreciated the offer and I think they meant it.
Shortly after those offers were made (well, within 5 hours) all 3 found something in the doctrine, either on their own or with the help of someone knowledgeable to justify leaving the wms. All 3 attended group and individual counseling to help them understand what had happened to them and all 3 are living happy productive lives today. In fact they are very successful, happy people!
In case you are wondering, no one who attended these interventions was paid to be there and there was no so-called profesional interventionist there either. "I think" some of the families did consult professionals prior to the interventions but it was none of my buisiness so I didn't ask. I was just asked to be there and I really didn't have much to say
The reason I decided to post something is that I recently heard that 1 of the other 4 decided on their own to leave the wms, I have no idea why but this was the first time I have ever had anything firsthand to say.
When it comes to interventions or just trying to help some one hear another side to the story, any story, I am taken by the words at the bottom of the above post, "whatever you do or say, let it be done or said with love" I think that sums it up pretty good
@hank Very profound. The brainwashing and guilt trippin, are what made it hard for my wife and I to leave. Even when we had evidence that WMS was not truthful. I remember my wife bent told, “Your having doubts, just study once a week to strengthen your faith. “
My son has been in at least 8 years now. We have done all we can, and now I think we just have to wait for him to come to a realization. Do you think there is hope for someone who has been in all this time? There have been times when I think he really did doubt, but it never resulted in him leaving, no matter how miserable his involvement made him. (And I know he has been miserable)
It seems like if you get them to an intervention early, there is hope. But I don't know of any intervention that can help after years and years. I know of people who have been in 9 years or more, and they are still adamant that they are staying. Most of the time now I just accept that there is nothing I can do anymore, or even worse, that if I try it will cement him in there. I wish I had known what to do when he was first involved. We didn't know he was even recruited till he was in there probably a year and a half because he lives so far away.
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