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suppose i didn't want to fight, scream, yell etc. I just wanted my loved one back, he hasn't been with the WMSCOG very long, he doesn't have a lot of money. Our family had gone through a lot of stress, he had gone through a lot of stress. He was vulnerable, I get it. Now we all just want him back. So my question is, can i just very politely go to the paster and ask him to please release my son? If i did that, what do you think would happen?
Smurf wrote:
Don't hate me for saying this, but I find most mind controlling techniques to be similar to animal conditioning. Why not counter it with the same?
Getting members out one by one is tiring… I say we gather up and do an intervention straight on Mother. Go for the main source… that's how you unplugg them all. At least in the movies.
We would have to get Zahng, Kim, and the entire board. Animal control huh? I see what you're getting at it just seems a little bazzare as far as a tool.
Going to the pastor would be a big mistake. Once the church knows that you are trying to get your son out, they will do everything in their power to keep him in. That includes turning him completely against you. It will only make him stay in the church longer. And don't ever tell him that you came to this website for help because he's probably heard really bad things about it like when the anti site the WMS made called this website a cult. Which is completely ridiculous by the way. They also say that we promote religious hatred, which is also obviously not true.
Hang in there!
Harry wrote:
Man 2 hours ago i felt so alone now i feel like i have an army of new friends!
I haven't cried in over an hour, that's pretty good
Btw, how do we tell them from us? I'm assuming they are monitoring this site
An infiltrator would sound like a bot ๐
I honestly believe that if we get CAPTCHA for the forum some members will not be able to pass XDD
People who post here may say they are members and defend them. Personally, I do think there are spies. People in the forum who pretend to sit one way but really they're standing. The only way you can absolutely tell is if you know who the person is in real life.
Smurf wrote:
Don't hate me for saying this, but I find most mind controlling techniques to be similar to animal conditioning.
Last time I checked mankind was a mammal. Somewhere along the line the species began to believe they were given a magical exemption?
Smurf wrote:
Why not counter it with the same?
Because knowledge of the topic of thought reform is the greatest retardation of its success.
Harry wrote:
suppose i didn't want to fight, scream, yell etc. I just wanted my loved one back, he hasn't been with the WMSCOG very long, he doesn't have a lot of money. Our family had gone through a lot of stress, he had gone through a lot of stress. He was vulnerable, I get it. Now we all just want him back. So my question is, can i just very politely go to the paster and ask him to please release my son? If i did that, what do you think would happen?
They will tell you that they cannot stop someone of coming to God and probably tell you that they cannot sin like that. They will try to explain you how they do not have prisioners in ther etc. I do not think that will work.
How do you get someone in this group to even begin questioning? I've been trying to plant seeds for along time now and it's not working.
Upset Mom wrote:
How do you get someone in this group to even begin questioning? I've been trying to plant seeds for along time now and it's not working.
How do you know that?
This is not tv dinners we are talking about here. It can be idiosyncratic.
I don't know that it is not working. I can only go based on my interactions with the ones involved. After many months, lots of descrepancies pointed out and numerous arguments they are still not entertaining what I have shown them. They are still giving me programmed answers. They are also still pulling away. Frustration is setting in.
Upset Mom wrote:
I don't know that it is not working. I can only go based on my interactions with the ones involved. After many months, lots of descrepancies pointed out and numerous arguments they are still not entertaining what I have shown them. They are still giving me programmed answers. They are also still pulling away. Frustration is setting in.
Are you debating Scripture?
I did that at first and figured out it was like battling with an unarmed person. ๐ I am currently trying to plant seeds of doubt but apparently they are not the right seeds.
I hate to say it but you also need to face the fact that they may stay in the religion permanently in which case you'll just learn to deal with it the best you can. I'm not saying you should give up but it could happen. I have a few relatives that have been in the JW's for over 30 years. I have come to terms with the fact that it's very unlikely they'll ever leave. It's free will.
Harry is right. We can't give up. Some do get out, if not right away. Most will leave this group eventually because they are so extreme. What oranges said has to be taken into account in the sense that it can be a long battle, and we have to arm ourselves with some real coping skills to make it through. We have to take care of our selves in order to be of help to our loved ones in this.
I know of a son who was saved from the wmscog by an intervention. His statement to his Mom afterwards is one of the main reasons you should stay in this fight. He had tears in his eyes when he told her, "Thank you so much for not giving up on me." I just can't give up, even when it seems so hopeless at times. I will try to find every coping mechanism I can, though, because it gets very dark at times, and I need help dealing. Sometimes I need to help the rest of you who have someone in there. That helps me cope.
We are getting closer to exposing them. It will happen.
Good work Harry. Helping her up.
Incidentally it was the Japanese that bombed Pearl Harbour but I get the point.
Upset Mom, my situation is not anywhere close to yours in seriousness but I understand what you mean. I have a friend who has been "captured" by this wmscog. Well over a year now. We tried to debate with her using scripture, logic, etc. She stonewalls all debate by just coming up with unrelated new as well as old points repeated. From her repetition of old points, it is clear that she has overlooked every rebuttal we have given her in the past. She has even said that everytime someone debates with her, her faith only gets stronger. Not sure about other members but neither scripture nor logic work with her.
It might just be that leaving her alone without debate might be the best course for such a personality. We have done just that and begun praying every day for her and others like her. I know God will hear our prayers in his time. Since your experience looks similar, perhaps you could do the same.
Harry wrote:
Nobody is giving up, c'mon, did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour???
I believe he is alluding to John Belushi in "Animal House".
Those that talk about the long haul, I agree that it certainly can be. What we don't know is if these 30+ year people closed themselves off into a closed information loop, or if they threatened their families enough to not challenge them anymore (still a form of information control) so as to find enough common ground to live without too much internal psychological conflict . The main theme in any totalistic structure I have researched is that information is one-sided, which is reinforced by continual and repetitive meetings, worship sessions, etc. (indoctrination sessions).
My apologies. I didn’t mean to offend anyone. I hope I didn’t offend anyone. I was just relaying my personal experience and that my relatives are most likely going to be in their high control group for the rest of their lives. Everyone has different experiences. I wish everyone the best.
No offense taken. I just know I can't give up. I know several long time Jehovah Witnesses, and I understand where you are coming from with your experiences. I just know that the wmscog is different in a lot of ways, and I won't give up my cause in getting him out of there.
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