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This debate has been posted several times in other forum post. Do we really have free will or is it predetermined what we will do and say for our entire lives and we only think that we have free will? I read the Word of God like this: He knows everything you are going to do and every decision that you are going to make. Just because God knows what you are going to do and the decisions that you are going to make doesn't mean that you don't have free will. It states that he knows what you are going to do not that he predetermind that you are going to do. He knows the future and he knows the past. This is part of the character of God. If he was really causing you to do his will then all of us would be saved because that is the desire God has for us. This may be my only input on this but please continue to bring your questions in your pursuit of the truth.
emil wrote:
Acts 16:31:
They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
The salvation was available to them by the death and resurrection of Jesus. The gift had been given. But they had to accept and unwrap the gift. A choice had to be made.
You don't know you're saved until you're in heaven.
emil wrote:
He does love us even if we don't repent. However, because he is infinitely just, we have to take the consequences of our lack of repentence.
Being omniscient, He is also aware in advance who will and who will not make the right choices. But His infinite love allows us to choose.
He knows in advance because He planned it that way. That's what "by God's will" means.
One question about free will or no free will,. for those of you who say that there is no free will . Do you think then that is gods plan to have your relative or love ones traped in this cult ? and if you do think that is gods will arent you fighting against god to break them from this church? This is just a thought since there is no free will.
king34 wrote:
One question about free will or no free will,. for those of you who say that there is no free will . Do you think then that is gods plan to have your relative or love ones traped in this cult ? and if you do think that is gods will arent you fighting against god to break them from this church? This is just a thought since there is no free will.
Everything, and absolutely everything, is a part of God's will. Even the fact that I'm responding to this is God's will. The way I feel is God's will. I cannot fight against God by my own will. The Pharoah fought against God but not by his own will. God hardened* his heart.
so then why be on this website if its god s will for them to be in that cult?
king34 wrote:
so then why be on this website if its god s will for them to be in that cult?
You're implying that I'm here because I chose to be here when I just stated that I don't believe we have a choice in anything we do….. I'm here because God "wrote" in the book entitled The Life of Renita Cheri Payno "starring" me that I would be here.
I get what your saying Im just trying to understand this . So god is putting you here to do his work as like get as many people from this cult out ( thats what we are all trying to do here or at least give awareness) but it is also gods will to keep out family members trapped in there. Im sorry but it makes no sence.
king34 wrote:
I get what your saying Im just trying to understand this . So god is putting you here to do his work as like get as many people from this cult out ( thats what we are all trying to do here or at least give awareness) but it is also gods will to keep out family members trapped in there. Im sorry but it makes no sence.
God doesn't need anyone to do work for him. Re-read my post with this mind set. The Cat in the Hat was written by Dr. Suess*. Did Dr. Suess need the little children to keep the Cat in the Hat in line? No. Dr. Suess could have written the book so that the Cat in the Hat was a "good" cat and everything was dandy. But in reality, God made Dr. Suess write the book that way. [This makes a whole lot more sense in my head than it does typed out. lol]
So, I am here because God willed me to be here. I do what I do because God willed me to do what I do. I am where I am in life because God willed me to be here and this way. Why would God let these people stay in the WMSCOG for as long as they have/will? Idk. I'm not God. Ask God when you die. And if you ask God it's because God willed you to. I would like to know why God created us the way we are. Ro 9:16-21. No one can resist or go against God's will. We all follow God's will no matter what we do because we cannot go against it. If God chooses to have mercy on me and let me free of the WMSCOG though I do not worship Him, then He shall because it is His will. If God chooses to have others stay in the WMSCOG though they secretly worship Jesus, then he shall because it, too, is God's will.
God has a plan and God is in control of everything it's as simple as that.
What is the plan? Nobody on this site or anywhere else has that answer
that is true but you are still fighting against one of his plans to keep those members there . you cant have to plans and contradict each other
well i'm going by the assumption that he put them there for us to rescue them
what makes you think his plan is to keep them there
If i am ever in a position where i am able to ask God a question it will be, "why did you make or let all those horrible things happen" and then I will duck
Yea, you don't know what God plans to do with those people or with us. What makes you think God's plan is to keep you from ever joining this group? You don't know what God has planned for you until it actually happens. And you have no control or choice over what God has planned for you. God's plan is God's will.
2 Kings 19:21 God is speaking
2 Kings 19:25 God's plan has happened as God intended it which He planned a long time ago.
Acts 18:21 What we plan [will to happen] will only happen if it's God's plan [will], too. If it is different, it won't happen because nothing overrides God's plan [will].
hey harry nice to meet you I dont thikn we have been formaly introduce. but back to the conversation what makes you think ( harrry) that his gods plan is to take them out from there? renita god also said in
The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps. Meaning we do have a choice
meaning we do have a choice, the lord have bigger plans and that is certain but is still up to us to follow. The same with moses and crossing the red sea. It was gods will to open the sea up but didnt moses have to put his effort to raise the staff ? another example is you go to church or chose to obey gods commands. God is not forcing you right this instant to worship him is up to you, you make that choice to get up on saturday or sunday to go worship god
Hello King nice to meet you.
Pretty simple answer to that one God is good and they are bad.
Actually let me rephrase that, God is good and that is a bad place
Well im not defending the wms but lets say for argument sake I am just this time lol ..since they are scared to speak out now (ftos) thats your opinion that is a bad place I was never miss treated their .They are not bad people most of them at least in nyc zion were pretty cool and down to earth people.
well yes I "think" it is a bad place but not full of all bad people.
I have been wrong before though
I'm known as an open minded person and i seek the truth i just want people to be free to make their own decisions of their own freewill
That NYC zion sounds like a pretty good place why did you leave?
king34 wrote:
hey harry nice to meet you I dont thikn we have been formaly introduce. but back to the conversation what makes you think ( harrry) that his gods plan is to take them out from there? renita god also said in
The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps. Meaning we do have a choice
meaning we do have a choice, the lord have bigger plans and that is certain but is still up to us to follow. The same with moses and crossing the red sea. It was gods will to open the sea up but didnt moses have to put his effort to raise the staff ? another example is you go to church or chose to obey gods commands. God is not forcing you right this instant to worship him is up to you, you make that choice to get up on saturday or sunday to go worship god
A man may plan his own way. The "BUT" says that the 1st part of the sentence cannot happen without the last part. If God does NOT establish his steps, then whatever he plans goes to waste. That's why the Scripture says, "I will return to you if it is God's will." Nothing happens unless God wills it to.
Harry wrote:
Hello King nice to meet you.
Pretty simple answer to that one God is good and they are bad.
Actually let me rephrase that, God is good and that is a bad place
I guess that doesn't apply to all the people who suffer/ed [from] torture, unlawful death, etc. Was God "bad" in those cases?
king34 wrote:
Well im not defending the wms but lets say for argument sake I am just this time lol ..since they are scared to speak out now (ftos) thats your opinion that is a bad place I was never miss treated their .They are not bad people most of them at least in nyc zion were pretty cool and down to earth people.
I agree. I wasn't treated poorly. I enjoyed being in Zion when I was there.
Harry wrote:
well yes I "think" it is a bad place but not full of all bad people.
I have been wrong before though
I'm known as an open minded person and i seek the truth i just want people to be free to make their own decisions of their own freewill
That NYC zion sounds like a pretty good place why did you leave?
Probably because the doctrine is not good. But no one can ever make a decision from their own freewill because, according to how God is described, no one can have true freewill.
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