- Topic
The leaders of the Wms and some members seem to be doing a lot of damage control because they are getting a well deserved reputation for destroying families. They want to deny it, but the evidence states otherwise, in my strong opinion. I talk to people on a daily basis whose relationships were damaged, some in seemingly irreparable ways.
Just today I heard a particularly heart breaking story. A lady whose son is a member of the Wms has been hanging on to their relationship by a thread. As is often the case, the son does a minimal job of keeping in touch, and she and her husband try very hard to keep contact.
As it happens, this son was very close to his grandpa on his Dad's side. The grandpa's health was declining, and his grandson was well aware of it as he had seen pictures. His grandpa passed recently, and one of the last things he said was, "Tell my boy _____ I love him!" The mother sent the son a message about his grandpa passing along with some pictures of him cuddling up with his grandpa on the couch when he was a child. No response at all. The father sent the son a message as well about his Dad passing. No response there either. It was very hard on these parents.
From what I have heard directly from members and from ex members is that they are discouraged from attending family funerals. What kind of church does that? If ever there was a time family leans on each other and needs support, it is in a time when you lose someone you love. Not only do I feel terrible for the parents in this case, but I feel terrible for the son as well. There are no re-dos in life for some things. They will always remember that he wasn't there and that he didn't even respond to their messages when they needed him. I know of some others who missed funerals of loved ones because they were in the Wms. They regretted it very much. Where is the concern for family here? The Wms simply does lip service about family values being important. Their words are empty because their actions don't match.
That’s very sad.
That is sad. Like you said MM – they will never get that time back!
It's all lip service with them. A couple years ago they didn't want members communicating with their families at all. Now WMS is worried because the last 2 articles validate this claim by ex-members and family members who have been interviewed.
The WMS would ask members: Do we ever prohibit you or say – you can't see your family?
Real question should be: Have we ever kept you so busy in studies, feasts, church services, meals, preaching, etc. that if you left to be with your family you would feel guilty? Have we ever said things like, "you must attend all services in order to receive the most blessings?"
The WMS would ask: Have we ever told you to get an abortion?
Real question should be: Have we ever said to you that the end is very near, father is on his way, why would you want to bring a child into the world when you need to preach and save as many souls as possible?
The WMS would ask: Have we ever forced you to give money to the church?
Real question should be: Have we ever said, father was very poor and sacrificed so that he could fulfill the prophecy. Shouldn't we all strive to be like father? You will be rewarded in heaven for the sacrifices you make on earth.
And then of course, telling you how you will be blessed for making the right decision (which insinuates that anything else is the wrong decision.)
And on and on the manipulation goes. But here is the difference that the members don't see:
The WMS never forces a member to do anything! But that is exactly what manipulation is: getting YOU to do exactly what THEY want YOU to do and for YOU to believe that YOU made the decision on your own.
Ms Freedom wrote:
The WMS never forces a member to do anything! But that is exactly what manipulation is: getting YOU to do exactly what THEY want YOU to do and for YOU to believe that YOU made the decision on your own.
Exactly
@Mm We all were told that. Old overseer also related members falling away, to what commands they didn’t obey; “Oh, see brudder en sister…Billy, he never tithe, thats why he fell away.” Heard that so many times
They will be very cautious on telling certain people about their feelings about funerals. But for a season member, they will say, “Let the dead bury their dead.” WMS leaders will never tell members to do something that doesnt lead toward Passover, Saturday Sabbath,Preaching etc. Whats funny, is that Jesus attended Lazarus’ funeral. When Jesus told the apostle to “let the dead bury the dead” it was a particular situation. When Jesus wept for Lazarus and attended his funeral, he went. It never said that Jesus needed to cleanse himself because he was in the presence of a dead body(Jewish ritual which WMS claim is why they don’t attend funerals). My thinking is that Lazarus was a man pure of heart, and THAT is what mattered. I buried my 2 Aunt, and Uncle while I was a member. These people were close to me, helped raise me etc.
MM, it's Numbers 19:12 (http://encountering-ahnsahnghong.blogspot.com/2010/08/holy-third-day.html).
Untouchable, I'd like to know too about your attending the funerals. Were you discouraged (either before or afterwards by being made to feel guilty)? I've wondered if it's another case of pressure without exactly saying 'don't go.' I know a member who didn't attend an important funeral. She said it was because she was grieving in her own way, but I suspected it was related to some kind of teaching or pressure.
@Genny I wasnt discouraged because I Didnt tell anyone. I felt that it was a no brainer. My wife did tell the overseer. It further made the church think that I was just the spouse of a title holder. Sometimes I think they thought of me as a trouble maker because I questioned things. My wife advised me to pray to myself during songs and prayers, at the funerals. I think that was suggested by the overseer.
But as it stands, I went. I never missed a family funeral, or thr funeral of a fraternity brother who died accidentally. I did miss weddings,and births of friends’ kids. I wish I could get those moments back.
@Mountain. I want to say no, but they would say things that might scare me into not knowing (“brother, keep the prayer times, pray alot you dont get tempted). A woman in our old church mother passed away. The mom was older and was actually baptized, but didnt keep many services. The sister didnt attend her moms funeral. That raised a red flag and my wife asked the Overseer, “What does WMS do when a member dies?”. The answer; “The church does a memorial service, then the [non-believing] family can do with the loved one as they pleased”. This memorial service has never happened, since when we were there, 2 members died. The WMS didnt even mention them. The memorial doesnt happen at the gravesite, either.
**So current members, ask yourself why WMS has claimed that tax exemption qualifies them because they have “funeral services”, when they dont conduct funerals. Secondly, older ex-members (especially those who were members in or around 2000 when the church was new to the U.S.) All recall being told that members don’t die.
While new to this platform, I have been reading the various threads to learn more. It is ironic how, as an outsider…one with no real interest in this group that the topic of members not attending funerals of others is not a new one and not exclusive to WMS. Most groups that are totalitarian in nature…seem to have members that have lost all sense of empathy or compassion for anyone that does not live "religiously" by their ideology. Unfortuanely, I have heard this from other families who have children close to relatives (that become sick or dying) and even that doesn't move them to connect or feel anything other than their own belief system. It is quite tragic for them because someday they will have to reconcile their lack of action.
@Mountain. I was told of that story by Ron. The Pastor kept trying to then tell others, that another member “saw her not eat the entire passover”. Basically trying to figure out a way to put it on the member.
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