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FTOS: I have a question for you. I understand your church is not the only one that persecutes the Catholic Church, but you guys do it with a passion. Here is my question, do you feel all Wmscog who observes and does everything the church instil are going to heaven? Secondly, do you feel all Catholic members (based on the way Wmscog speaks about them) are Doomed? I say Catholics because from my observation here, it appears it is believed to be the root of all the harlots. Not that I hold that school of thought.
I personally don’t believe all Catholics are doomed, the same way I don’t believe all Protestants (general believers) are going to heaven. I don’t know how it will be on that day and i make no condemnation. I don’t hold the key, but my belief is that all who believe in Jesus Christ stand a higher chance of getting in. So, I want to know how you feel about this based on your understanding. Will it be based on who they believe in to make it into heaven or the way they transmit their message to God. This question is about members and not the leaders of the organization. The leaders are a whole different matter all together. So what is your take without gearing this into who observes or doesn’t observe sabbath.
I gave you my thought. I could be wrong, so lets hear your thought from that other side. ๐ I know you don’t like me much, but it’s ok. We might end up agreeing in the future.
POSTED 1 SECOND AGO # EDIT QUOTE
Sarah2013 – are you saying God will check which church issued our last baptism certificate to decide whether to let us in or not?
But seriously, your post raises other questions for FTOS – What about those who left the catholic church and became atheist? Are they saved because they left what wmscog considers is satan?
Catholicism is the most dominant christian denomination in South Korea. So with the vast majority of people being catholic, that creates great opportunities for organisations like the WMSCOG. And if you take a good look at them, they are in essence 'against Catholicism', rather that 'pro God' ๐
Without the catholic church as a base, as a main antagonist, WMS wouldn't have the same success.
Completely agree with Smurf. My friend in the wmscog cannot come up with a single positive about her wmscog without including rants against the catholic church. As Smurf said, their material is more anti-catholic than pro-God.
FYI – my parents' JW religion has also been extremely vocal against the Catholic church calling it the great harlot in revelation and many other things. There is a long list of articles and talks they have had denouncing the Catholic church.
Oranges wrote:
FYI – my parents' JW religion has also been extremely vocal against the Catholic church calling it the great harlot in revelation and many other things. There is a long list of articles and talks they have had denouncing the Catholic church.
To be honest, it was the WMSCOG's dismissal of the Catholic Chruch that really inspired me to join in the first place. I was very suscepitble to the Daniel and Revelations teachings, due to the bad experiences that I had with the Catholic Church. When I was in fifth grade, my mom enrolled me into a Catholic School. It was a fantastic school in terms of academics. However, from that early age- I knew that something was terribly terribly wrong. My spirit could never jive there, even from childhood- and that was the time in my life when I was most open and accepting.
Sorry if I offend anyone, but I truly do think there is something seriously wrong with the Catholic Church. However- other churches certainly have their issues as well. I still haven't found that "perfect" one, if there even is such a thing.
But it's not just the wmscog. Jehovah's Witnesses and Lutherans are among others who do not like the Catholic Church either. I'm sure many Protestants in general dislike their doctrine.
terribly terribly wrong or seriously wrong, i'm just curious which it was? did you have bad experiences in school or church. as a 5th grader you must have been pretty bright to realize you were at a great academic institution and to know that your spirit wasn't jiving. i might have missed this but i take it you are still a member of the WMSCOG. I just base that on your lack of actual facts regarding any part of the Catholic Church doctrine that is terrribly terribly wrong.
Harry, there are many on this forum that have some issues in their mind about the Catholic Church. I am often tempted to delve into the criticism and discuss it. I would also like to know details of what Liberty is actually talking about. However, since this is a site about examining the WMSCOG, I do not want to get into that discussion now as it would only take the focus away from the understood goal of this forum. I only dispute wrong things that the WMSCOG claims.
As far as I know, Liberty is an ex-member of the wmscog, now free. Same goes for Sarah too I guess.
Sarah2013, I believe he was refering to Liberty since he mentioned about her school experience.
@Liberty: are you talking about this kind of terrible? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U55y4S1MUSkat 3:40
Flaming Lucifer finds Mankind,
I say: Oh Lucifer who will never be defeated,
Christ is your son
who came back from hell, shed his peaceful light and is alive and reigns in the world without end.
An extract of the testimony from this Link:
http://christahnsahnghong.blogspot.ae/2009/02/ahnsahnghong-father-and-mother-go.html
Ahnsahnghong-Father and Mother Go before Us to Prepare the Way for World Mission
Brazil has the greatest number of Catholics in the world; over 90% of Bra-zilians are Catholic. They commonly use the words related to the Bible in their daily life, which has caused a change in the original meaning of the words and a mixture of the truth and falsehood. For example, the Passover is recognized by Brazilians as the Resurrection Day. If we tell them to keep the Passover, they boastfully say that they keep it. The streets are crowded with people wearing red rabbit-shaped costumes to enjoy this day, eating eggs. They also eat chocolates as they do on Valentine’s Day. In Brazil, the Passover, the Resurrection Day and Valentine’s Day are regarded as the same festival. People celebrate these days, wearing red rabbit-shaped costumes, eating eggs and chocolates. Samba, Carnival and the feasts of the Catholic Church and those of the Prot-estant Church are celebrated as national festivals
Harry wrote:
terribly terribly wrong or seriously wrong, i'm just curious which it was? did you have bad experiences in school or church. as a 5th grader you must have been pretty bright to realize you were at a great academic institution and to know that your spirit wasn't jiving. i might have missed this but i take it you are still a member of the WMSCOG. I just base that on your lack of actual facts regarding any part of the Catholic Church doctrine that is terrribly terribly wrong.
I will elaborate. But this will be long:
I had been raised in a Baptist Church. Also the school that I went to from K-4th grade was a private Christian school. But in retrospect, it was definitely based more on Pentecostal type beliefs- although I don't believe the school chose any particular denomination.
My mom felt that the school was going downhill academically for a private school, so she enrolled me in a Catholic school. She had heard that this school had a great academic program, and she wanted me to be well-prepared for high school. The problem was that she didn't tell me that the school was Catholic. I think had she at least told me or explained to me- my transition would've been a lot smoother.
I had never heard of the word Catholic and didn't know what it was. So from day one, I didn't understand why they did "funny" things. Huge culture shock.
So I remember the first time I went to "mass." I was like, "what is mass? that doesn't even make sense. doesn't mass mean something fat?" No one explained to me that "Mass" was the name they used for church service, so I'm sitting there all confused.
Then at the end of service, when it was time to take the communion, I stood up along with all my classmates. I started to walk with them, and my teacher came over to me and politely asked me if I had ever taken Eucharist before. I was like, "uh, Yuca- what? I beg your pardon."
She repeated the question, but I didn't understand the word that she was saying. She finally told me to sit down. I did, but I was disappointed that I didn't get to eat the communion. I was baptized when I was seven, so in my mind I should have been able to take the communion along with my classmates. I always took it at my church so why couldn't I take it here? I didn't know what I had done wrong. That was when the first bad feeling begin to set. The teacher didn't even explain why she sat me down.
Later that day at school, the priest came around to visit the classrooms. I remember when the teacher said, "Here is Father Riley."
I said, "Oh, he is your dad! Well nice to meet you Mr. Riley."
I remember the teacher making a funny face and saying, "It's Father Riley."
And I was all confused. "But he's not my dad. Weren't you the pastor at the church service earlier today?" At that point she pretty much just shoed me away. Again, I was wondering, "Okay what did I do this time. I was polite!"
Later that week, we were having "confessionals." So the teacher took all the students to church building again and sat us on pews. Each student took their turn going into this small room. When it was my turn, I went in the door. Everything was pitch black. I was scared of the dark and I began to feel my way around the room. I didn't want to cry, so I started spinning around in circles. I know it sounds strange- but for some reason that calmed me. Then I heard a man's voice say, "Kneel down."
I think I said, "No, I'm scared and I want to get out of here."
He said, "It's okay, don't be scared. I just need you to kneel down right here."
I didn't move, and he asked me some strange questions and seemed to want to know what my sins were."
I said, "You aren't God."
He seemed to be taken aback by this but I'm not sure what he said. I just remember soon after that finding the door and getting out of that room. My classmates were all staring at me. They said something about the red light never turning on, so they knew that I wasn't kneeling. I didn't really care- I just felt that experience was creepy and strange.
Later the teacher asked me why I didn't kneel in front of Father Riley. I told her that I only that "he's not my dad, and that I only kneel down when I'm praying."
She said,"It's for respect."
I said, "I do respect Mr. Riley."
She said, "Father Riley."
Then I asked her why I wasn't able to eat the crackers and grape juice at church that morning, because I had been baptized. She said, "You aren't Catholic."
I asked, "What's Catholic?"
All the kids in class started laughing at me and I suddenly felt embarrassed.
I also remember asking at some point that day, why a lady was dressed up as a penguin, and again, I got laughed at. I had no concept of nuns at that time.
When my mom picked me up from school that day, I told her all about my crazy experiences. She just said, "Well, this is a Catholic school and the way they do things is a lot different from how we do things."
And I said, "Well you should've told me! I made a complete fool out of myself at school today and now everyone thinks I'm dumb!"
I had more bad experiences- but that was the gist of my first week of school.
Oh one other thing. I was part of the children's choir at my church/school which was recognized regionally at that time. I had won four young soloist awards that I was very proud of. I wanted to sing and share my songs at school, but they were not accepting of that type of music. The music that they sang at "Mass" was much different from the type of music that I was accustomed to in my church. I didn't like that they didn't care about any of the accomplishments that I had made with my church choir.
Also, later I learned that my classmates could partake in the "Eucharist" (communion) because they had participated in the 1st communion ceremony when they were in second grade. That was around the time that I had been Baptized. But in order to be baptized, I had to know all the books of the bible, the trinity, the disciples and a few facts about Jesus. I had to do a lot of studying in the children's bible school to learn all that.
I was so mad when I realized that my classmates were baptized when they were babies. I was like, "what does a baby know? a baby can't talk." I also realized that they didn't have even half of the knowledge of the Bible that I did. I knew they didn't work for their baptism like I did. Yet, they could take the communion at the "mass" and I couldn't! It just wasn't fair.
From Day 1, I did not like the Catholic Church. I re-told those events from my perspective as a child. I knew that I was uncomfortable with certain things, but I didn't exactly know why. Later when I grew older and more mature, I was able to understand exactly why. It helped being able to understand those events in a broader way. As a child, it was a combination of it all being strange and unfamiliar to me, combined with my spirit knowing that I didn't like something about all of it. Couldn't put my finger on it at the time, but something just didn't feel right.
I understand your feelings entirely. I do understand why you have these bad vibes because it seems that your teacher did not treat you with the sensitivity deserving of a 5th grader.
Being Catholic myself, I am surprised that even non-Catholic students were required to go to Mass and confession. That is totally wrong. Your teacher messed up big time.
Sorry to say this but in hindsight I think your mom messed up too. She should have collaborated with the school authorities to get you properly oriented about the differences which came as a rude shock to you.
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