- Topic
You may has read a post from a WMS member in support of another WMS member blasting me and saying more or less that I was the instigator and the that the "brother" should not have stooped to our level. I can only speculate that this supporter came in towards the end of the conversation and did not do her homework researching where this all started from. Well, there's another reason that this supporter may have come out as she did; When my loved one was a member of this group, I took part in one "Bible Study" at a local meeting place. If you research some of the tactics cults use when trying to win someone over you'll see a very text book example as I go on. When my loved one and I got to the meeting place we met up with two other people both from the WMS. There was a man who took over the Bible study. (I thought that when you go to a Bible study you would be following a guideline or building on some previous study.) As I thought I would be sitting in with a group that regularly got together it turned out to be three against one. With this man was a fairly attractive woman who seemed to be flirting with me a bit as well as asking me if I understood and agreed with what was being presented. Then there's my loved one representing the fairly new member trying to convince me that once I understood like she had that things would become clear. We went through a Bible study showing how the bombing of Japan in WWII was a prophesy. The presenter kept drawing this picture of part of a mushroom cloud saying that this is what was presented in a vision that seemed like a scroll being rolled up. At times during this I would point out obvious flaws in the teachings. Most of the response I would get would be something like, "well come back to that" and "if I can continue it will all make sence." A couple of times he would stop and ask me if I agreed with what had been presented so far. If I did'nt agree with the teaching he would say something like, "Well, there's no point in going on if you're not understanding the truth up to this point." Now I wasn't completely unprepared for this because I had expected to be pressured to some extent and even outnumbered as I was going into the lions den so to speak. I came back with, "Please go on as I am not the only person here right?" He then through out that the other folks already understood the truth and that they were really there to show me the truth. Ah, it was as I thought, three against one. I followed up with, "Well, you did say that I would understand as we go on with the study so please continue." I was taking notes as well as adding possible problems to these notes. After another minute or two of if your not getting it at this point and I'm not understanding it so far go on he continued with his presentation. Keep in mind that I had already poked a few holes in the study that he chose to move past. He kept going and also kept coming back and redrawing the mushroom cloud scroll as his obvious proof for the relivance of the study. As the study came to an end, about two and a half hours later, he seemed very sure of himself and the two other women were very onboard with his presentation and interpretation. Now came the "do you understand the truth that you have been shown?" part of the trap. I can see how this kind of approach can be very effective and if I had not been taking notes I'm sure that the information overload would have been enough for me to just feel like maybe they do have the truth. Fortunately God has my back and I was taking notes. I blew six of seven big holes in the study and left this man at a loss for answers. I don't know if this man is even a member of the WMS anymore after this night. I'll bet that it took a bit of discussion from other members of the WMS to keep him in if he stayed. When I asked my loved one about the Bible study afterwards what she witnessed was something else. In her eyes I was rude, disruptive, closed off, and a few other choice phrases. After the assement of my personality I asked her what she thought about the man and what I had shared with him. She said that there were a couple of scriptures that he used that she had never thought of. That this man was right on and that she had learned a lot. She had completely missed the fact of how the study came appart both during the lesson and at the end. If the information didn't agree with the teaching it was disreguarded. In one ear and out of the other.
I understand that we are dealing with a destructive mind control group. They are predisposed to ignore the facts and truth's that we present here. Truly I can only pitty them and at times try to shake them up enough to disrupt the programming they are influenced with. I can understand how another WMS member can come here and try to defend the actions of another WMS member. Obviously the defending member has been shaken up by the truth stating that she had to go back and be reconvinced by people higher up in the WMS. I wish that when her spirit was showing her that there is something wrong with the WMS she would have taken some time to learn the truth for herself but instead she went and got reconvinced by the same people that mislead her in the first place. It's a pitty.
Having lived through this type of thing within my own house and seeing the lack of fruit produced by it I admit that I am hardly effected when it happens in our forum. God has called me to be His Joshua and as such you may rest assured that I will continue to bring the light and the truth into this very dark hole called the WMSCOG. Even though I am weak, God makes me strong. Peace and love everyone.
Well said. I also had the same kind of experience. For those who are reading this site to gain more insight on this church, please pay attention to that feeling that you are getting. It's a wierd one that tells you something isn't right. The bypass your questions, they lose patience when you don't believe every word that they say, and the things that they preach are in contradiction with what thier founder preached or with other sciptures in the bible. If you are studying your way in, dont get nervous. You will just need to study your way out, it will be ok. Jesus is still king…..
As for visions, this is from Billy Graham in the 1950's:
"When I see a beautiful city such as New York, I also have a vision of crumbling buildings and dust. I keep having the feeling that God will allow something to fall on us in a way I don't anticipate unless we return to Him".
I just thought I'd throw that out there….
Nice post, OP. Don't expect members of destructive groups to act logically. Emotions win over intellect every time, and authority matters. Just this week a 911 call was recorded and the nurse deferred to her boss that she was not required to provide an elderly woman with CPR even though the 911 dispatcher emphasized it over and over! Sadly, the elderly woman died. Instead of reports of how humans so easily defer to authority figures, the news outlets I have seen are going the direction of how society is losing its values.
Being outnumbered in any situation is Asch conformity 101.
Yes, Joshua. Deception.
Yes, Questiningla, our society has lost a high percentage of it’s values from what I’m observing.
Sarah2013 wrote:
Yes, Questiningla, our society has lost a high percentage of it's values from what I'm observing.
But if one digs deeper into the subject, it is simple exploitation of what it is to be human. We think we are exceptions to the rules of the animal kingdom because we talk and think – we are no different (psychologically) in so many ways in the eyes of those that choose to deceive.
Fear works on us, why? Because over countless generations those that erred on the side of fear escaped pending doom and those traits passed on.
Obedience to authority works, why? Because (same evolution principles) people worked in groups as units and developed division of labor and rules and the societies that did this were better able to control territory and resources. It became natural to respect authority. This is why salespeople wore white jackets to sell medical supplies in 3rd world countries – to exploit authority via how they looked (buyers believed they were doctors).
We won't be seeing two chimps carrying a log together. What separates humans from the rest of the animal kingdom is our ability to work together for common interests. What became ingrained as it pertains to the survivability of our species can be counted on to act consistently well into the future.
When we can discuss these matters openly, we may reasonably expect the group with which we are communicating is healthy. When groups or their members have none of it, I suspect their motives are not exactly pure.
Joshua wrote:
You may has read a post from a WMS member in support of another WMS member blasting me and saying more or less that I was the instigator and the that the "brother" should not have stooped to our level. I can only speculate that this supporter came in towards the end of the conversation and did not do her homework researching where this all started from. Well, there's another reason that this supporter may have come out as she did; When my loved one was a member of this group, I took part in one "Bible Study" at a local meeting place. If you research some of the tactics cults use when trying to win someone over you'll see a very text book example as I go on. When my loved one and I got to the meeting place we met up with two other people both from the WMS. There was a man who took over the Bible study. (I thought that when you go to a Bible study you would be following a guideline or building on some previous study.) As I thought I would be sitting in with a group that regularly got together it turned out to be three against one. With this man was a fairly attractive woman who seemed to be flirting with me a bit as well as asking me if I understood and agreed with what was being presented. Then there's my loved one representing the fairly new member trying to convince me that once I understood like she had that things would become clear. We went through a Bible study showing how the bombing of Japan in WWII was a prophesy. The presenter kept drawing this picture of part of a mushroom cloud saying that this is what was presented in a vision that seemed like a scroll being rolled up. At times during this I would point out obvious flaws in the teachings. Most of the response I would get would be something like, "well come back to that" and "if I can continue it will all make sence." A couple of times he would stop and ask me if I agreed with what had been presented so far. If I did'nt agree with the teaching he would say something like, "Well, there's no point in going on if you're not understanding the truth up to this point." Now I wasn't completely unprepared for this because I had expected to be pressured to some extent and even outnumbered as I was going into the lions den so to speak. I came back with, "Please go on as I am not the only person here right?" He then through out that the other folks already understood the truth and that they were really there to show me the truth. Ah, it was as I thought, three against one. I followed up with, "Well, you did say that I would understand as we go on with the study so please continue." I was taking notes as well as adding possible problems to these notes. After another minute or two of if your not getting it at this point and I'm not understanding it so far go on he continued with his presentation. Keep in mind that I had already poked a few holes in the study that he chose to move past. He kept going and also kept coming back and redrawing the mushroom cloud scroll as his obvious proof for the relivance of the study. As the study came to an end, about two and a half hours later, he seemed very sure of himself and the two other women were very onboard with his presentation and interpretation. Now came the "do you understand the truth that you have been shown?" part of the trap. I can see how this kind of approach can be very effective and if I had not been taking notes I'm sure that the information overload would have been enough for me to just feel like maybe they do have the truth. Fortunately God has my back and I was taking notes. I blew six of seven big holes in the study and left this man at a loss for answers. I don't know if this man is even a member of the WMS anymore after this night. I'll bet that it took a bit of discussion from other members of the WMS to keep him in if he stayed. When I asked my loved one about the Bible study afterwards what she witnessed was something else. In her eyes I was rude, disruptive, closed off, and a few other choice phrases. After the assement of my personality I asked her what she thought about the man and what I had shared with him. She said that there were a couple of scriptures that he used that she had never thought of. That this man was right on and that she had learned a lot. She had completely missed the fact of how the study came appart both during the lesson and at the end. If the information didn't agree with the teaching it was disreguarded. In one ear and out of the other.
I understand that we are dealing with a destructive mind control group. They are predisposed to ignore the facts and truth's that we present here. Truly I can only pitty them and at times try to shake them up enough to disrupt the programming they are influenced with. I can understand how another WMS member can come here and try to defend the actions of another WMS member. Obviously the defending member has been shaken up by the truth stating that she had to go back and be reconvinced by people higher up in the WMS. I wish that when her spirit was showing her that there is something wrong with the WMS she would have taken some time to learn the truth for herself but instead she went and got reconvinced by the same people that mislead her in the first place. It's a pitty.
Having lived through this type of thing within my own house and seeing the lack of fruit produced by it I admit that I am hardly effected when it happens in our forum. God has called me to be His Joshua and as such you may rest assured that I will continue to bring the light and the truth into this very dark hole called the WMSCOG. Even though I am weak, God makes me strong. Peace and love everyone.
Joshua, the only thing that got my attention was the book Father wrote. My Pastor had already told us about most of the issues brought up on this site. Now before you go and pat yourself on your back, the reason I went back to my Pastor on my question is because they would definitly have more information on the subject than you would. I know this because of the other issues on here that were already disclosed to me. There are too many holes on this website, which the Pastor cleared up, very thoroughly I might add. The Pastor also did a great Job at clearing up the holes in this about the Book Father wrote also. Of course no one on this site knows more about the wmscog or it's doctrine then wmscog itself, so why go to another source to find information they don't have.
I think Fromtheotherside gave an analogy about this once, he said something about a gun. You have the gun but you can't prove anything because of not having the bullets or fingerprints. Sorry I don't think I'm explaining it correctly.
We all have times that we are shaken up, no matter what religion you are in. But thanks to Father and Mother I saw the truth, and did not lose faith. I got the answers from the experts. I can tell you this, half the story is not even on this website. Here is my analogy, you have pieces of a puzzle but none of them fit together, at the church of God they have all the pieces, thats why I went to them to find the answers. Believe me they clear it up very thoroughly. Thanks to Father and Mother again.
Care to enlighten us Angelwings? What about that book are we missing?
Indeed!
angelwings wrote:
Joshua, the only thing that got my attention was the book Father wrote. My Pastor had already told us about most of the issues brought up on this site. Now before you go and pat yourself on your back, the reason I went back to my Pastor on my question is because they would definitly have more information on the subject than you would. I know this because of the other issues on here that were already disclosed to me. There are too many holes on this website, which the Pastor cleared up, very thoroughly I might add. The Pastor also did a great Job at clearing up the holes in this about the Book Father wrote also. Of course no one on this site knows more about the wmscog or it's doctrine then wmscog itself, so why go to another source to find information they don't have.
As I said elsewhere, I am happy that you are here. Many wmscog members comment on an article and never show up to defend their position later. It would be nice if you can point out to us the errors that are in the front page articles of this site. Much better than saying like other people that this site is full of errors. Since there are many holes, I am sure you would be happy to share some with us. Perhaps you could start with the book "Problems with the New Jerusalem…." My friend in the wmscog denies he wrote it.
Second point I wish to tell you. When it comes to things about the wmscog, you say that it is best to check with the wmscog since they know best about their dcotrine. Yet, are you willing to accept what they claim is the doctrine of other churches without actually checking with those churches? My friend in the wmscog only believes the wmscog on all claims.
angelwings wrote:
I think Fromtheotherside gave an analogy about this once, he said something about a gun. You have the gun but you can't prove anything because of not having the bullets or fingerprints. Sorry I don't think I'm explaining it correctly.
Do I understand you saying that even if you committed the crime, we have no proof you did?
angelwings wrote:
We all have times that we are shaken up, no matter what religion you are in. But thanks to Father and Mother I saw the truth, and did not lose faith. I got the answers from the experts. I can tell you this, half the story is not even on this website. Here is my analogy, you have pieces of a puzzle but none of them fit together, at the church of God they have all the pieces, thats why I went to them to find the answers. Believe me they clear it up very thoroughly. Thanks to Father and Mother again.
Experts at what? Perhaps once you point out the holes on this website we could see for ourselves.
emil wrote:
angelwings wrote:
Joshua, the only thing that got my attention was the book Father wrote. My Pastor had already told us about most of the issues brought up on this site. Now before you go and pat yourself on your back, the reason I went back to my Pastor on my question is because they would definitly have more information on the subject than you would. I know this because of the other issues on here that were already disclosed to me. There are too many holes on this website, which the Pastor cleared up, very thoroughly I might add. The Pastor also did a great Job at clearing up the holes in this about the Book Father wrote also. Of course no one on this site knows more about the wmscog or it's doctrine then wmscog itself, so why go to another source to find information they don't have.
As I said elsewhere, I am happy that you are here. Many wmscog members comment on an article and never show up to defend their position later. It would be nice if you can point out to us the errors that are in the front page articles of this site. Much better than saying like other people that this site is full of errors. Since there are many holes, I am sure you would be happy to share some with us. Perhaps you could start with the book "Problems with the New Jerusalem…." My friend in the wmscog denies he wrote it.
Second point I wish to tell you. When it comes to things about the wmscog, you say that it is best to check with the wmscog since they know best about their dcotrine. Yet, are you willing to accept what they claim is the doctrine of other churches without actually checking with those churches? My friend in the wmscog only believes the wmscog on all claims.
angelwings wrote:
I think Fromtheotherside gave an analogy about this once, he said something about a gun. You have the gun but you can't prove anything because of not having the bullets or fingerprints. Sorry I don't think I'm explaining it correctly.
Do I understand you saying that even if you committed the crime, we have no proof you did?
Your putting words in her mouth, Shooting a gun is not a crime, it depends on the situation. Also that analogy was to explain that in order for you to say someone commited a crime you have to have physical evidence, which is the bullets and Gun, and you need evidence linking the gun to the shooter, but that does not lead to a conviction, you need motive. But nice twist though, We're in the 20 century try not twist too much. Your trying to make a crime from nothing and you have no evidence to prove a crime was commited. Which means you need HARD FACTS, testimony is dissmisable. not enough to get you anywhere. I could say Emil stole my wallet and yell it at the top of my lungs and get 20 people to say you did but until the wallet shows up in your possesion(hard evidence) you have nothing.
angelwings wrote:
We all have times that we are shaken up, no matter what religion you are in. But thanks to Father and Mother I saw the truth, and did not lose faith. I got the answers from the experts. I can tell you this, half the story is not even on this website. Here is my analogy, you have pieces of a puzzle but none of them fit together, at the church of God they have all the pieces, thats why I went to them to find the answers. Believe me they clear it up very thoroughly. Thanks to Father and Mother again.
Experts at what? Perhaps once you point out the holes on this website we could see for ourselves.
Emil, Does God only belong to the Jews? What ever doctrine we have belongs to God doesn't matter if there are others with similarities. So I or as angelwings stated would rather check it with GOD, that is why we go to the CHURCH OF GOD! ^^ If you and Joshua would rather have find information from men then that is up to you, but we would rather get ours from God. Dont' feel sorry Joshua, we enjoy being in bondage to God, and we don't think men know better then God so you stick with finding your information from people we will get it from God. Thanks anyways though.
fromtheotherside wrote:
you stick with finding your information from people we will get it from God. Thanks anyways though.
They give you any help on my topics for you yet? I'm still waiting.
Hint: Its called check-mate, but let's recap anyway:
FTOS can tell white lies. God approves it. Matthew 10:16 says nothing about lying, often used but unsure here, but hmm…Exodus 20:16, Proverbs 6:17, "love rejoices in the truth"1 Corinthians 13:6, heres a big one: Revelation 21:8 very direct and not nebulus at all.
Sorry, FTOS, even in Exodus 2 and Joshua 1, God doesn't condone lying.
But here's the bigger question, in an environment in which it is ok to lie to "outsiders", do you agree that, in theory, you approve that lying to you at any point would have been acceptable? I know, I know, it never happened….but let's pretend it did. You approve of it because of course you wouldn't have been fully in the Truth when it happened. You would have needed to be lied to, and you approve, retroactively.
questioninginla your post makes no sense. You should check yourself first, mate. Truth is the gospel. It's clear God doesn't condone lying don't know what ex2 and josh1 has to do with it. Please make your post more easier to understand.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Emil, Does God only belong to the Jews? What ever doctrine we have belongs to God doesn't matter if there are others with similarities. So I or as angelwings stated would rather check it with GOD, that is why we go to the CHURCH OF GOD! ^^ If you and Joshua would rather have find information from men then that is up to you, but we would rather get ours from God. Dont' feel sorry Joshua, we enjoy being in bondage to God, and we don't think men know better then God so you stick with finding your information from people we will get it from God. Thanks anyways though.
But if Zahng and Ahn are not God, then you are getting it from men after all.
fromtheotherside wrote:
questioninginla your post makes no sense. You should check yourself first, mate. Truth is the gospel. It's clear God doesn't condone lying don't know what ex2 and josh1 has to do with it. Please make your post more easier to understand.
Wait, didn't you tell me in another thread that God didn't have a problem with some lying?
if you believe them not to be thats fine, but doesn't take away the fact. Fact and belief are different.
Abraham was in a bad situation, in away he didn't lie it is true they are brother and sister in heaven. At any rate God did not show in the bible he was upset, actually there was no punishment of rebuke whatsoever, in the end Abraham recieved more blessings when he left those places. lambs gold and such.
hmm it wasn't made as a punishment, the bible doesn't imply that. It actually is a natural result to abrahams actions.
Joshua that is irrelevent, If abraham felt bad or nothing it has nothing to do with God punishing him. Also if there were ever punishments from god it is always stated in the bible as to why and how.
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