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Perhaps if the people of this forum are so wise and learned in Christ. So very wise and learned in history. So sure that all of the WMSCOG interpretations are wrong and boasting you were able to discount them at every turn.
Then surely, such people with a clear understanding of the truth, can teach ME.
Reveal to me then, the secrets of God, show me the deep mysteries revealed from the Sealed Scroll. For surely you must have the wisdom of the holy spirit, and can prophecy and answer all things as saints of God.
What does the Sealed Scroll in Revelations contain?
Who is the Root of David?
Tell me what is Christ's New Name, for isn't written he will have a New Name?
Tell me which nation God is referring to, when he declares a man will come from the east?
Tell me what the holy spirit will be teaching us in the last days?
Tell me, since God commands us to find King David in the last days, who is he?
Tell me, since God promised that the entire world would be corrupted by Satan, exactly when and where did that happen?
Answer me, what is the nation which comes after Babylon?
What is the nation that comes after that nation?
What is the nation which comes after that nation, the one that has ten horns?
Which nation is the one that defeated three other kingdoms for religous purposes, while also building a new soverign land for a boastful man who pretends to be god?
Which nation has oppressed the saints of God for a time time and half of a time?
Which nation has changed the set time and laws of God?
Those examples and clues all come from the same nation, so surely you can tell me which nation it is?
Since I want to avoid the beast and Devil, can you tell me what they used to replace true teachings with?
Jesus says that the sign of the fig tree will mark his coming and the end of the age, can you tell me what is the Fig tree?
Can you tell me what the bible means when it says that before the end, during the time of the fig tree, the sky will roll up like a scroll?
During what event in history were islands and mountains beset with such a great explosion?
Can you list for me all the churches which are Weeds in Jesus examples, and which ones are Wheat?
Can you tell me why God wants to destroy the earth for all of its wickedness?
Can you tell me what possessed Jesus to rebuke Christians who believe in him and call them Lawless Ones?
Can you tell me how it is that I am not saved merely by believing in Jesus, and calling on his name like those Lawless examples?
If I need to do more than just believe, then how much faith must I have?
If I need to do works along with my faith, then which works and how many?
When God says that in the last day his own people have violated the covenant, what does he mean?
Can you tell me why Satan could flying to heaven as an angel with great power, after the garden of eden, during the time of Job?
Can you tell me exactly which moment in history Satan lost all authority and was cast down to the earth?
When did the great war in heaven take place?
Who is the church John in revelations is talking to, when he says "you have forgotten your first love"?
Why were people arguing about the date of Jesus' ressurection when it was clearly passover 14th, unleavened bread 15th, ressurection 16th?
Why did people argue over such a simple fact, and why did they replace real and actual dates with fake man-made dates?
Why do people make the excuse that because they are honoring Jesus, the actual dates don't matter anymore?
Why were the man-made dates chosen, coincidentally chosen to be dates of Pagan holidays?
Why would someone who believes in Christ wish to appoint holy days duting such a blatantly controversial time?
What level of negligence lead to the Early Church forgetting how to read a clendar?
Who was the first person to preach a different gospel and what was that different Gospel?
Who started the arguments over doctrines?
Why was all authority given to Anicetus and not Polycarp?
Why did anyone care about the opinions of someone who argued with Polycarp?
How many different denominations of Christianity were there in the early church?
Besides Arianism, Messianic Jews, Quartodecimanism, The Nazarenes, The Nazarene Sect, The Roman Church, how many other denominations existed in such a time of great controversy?
How do you know that the denomination which rose to power was in truth the original denomination of Christ?
Why were all those other denominations of Christ killed off, put in prison, tortured, put in salt mines, put in regular mines, or exiled?
Why would a church which belongs to Christ commit such atrocities?
What are the seven thunders, and why are there exactly seven of them?
Why is seven the perfect number, is there a connection between seven days and seven feasts and the rest of the 7 thousandth year?
If God is truth, and carbon dating has decent enough accuracy to show us pottery and ruins from biblical lore, then why does that same truthful technology not then agree with creationists when human bones are found predating 6,000bc?
Is God wrong, or is the interpretation wrong?
If the Roman Catholic church is not the Beast which changed God's set times and laws, then which other nation has its church membership in government whom did also change God's set times and laws and whom did opress the saints even imprisoning them or martying them?
Then God warns Ezekiel that members of his very of Church of God will, in the future, bow down to Tammuz; who is he talking about, where will it happen, how will it happen, and when will that happen, or has it already happened?
I have many many questions more, years worth of deep thinking and revelations from God. But surely you can satisfy these questions of mine.
Surely none of you will have differing answers, as surely there is only one true gospel, and anyone who preaches a different Gospel may be eternally condemned.
For I am not impressed by the logic or faith of this website, nor with its jeering, bad attitudes, and slander. Nor with its membership, whom profess knowledge, yet bicker even among themselves.
Satisfy my questions then, as only those in the last days who have recived Christ can.
I though it was a Unicorn.
Well same genre
@ Stained: lol….. Unicorn???
WMS borther, you started this with a whole lot of questions. I began the process of answering you. Now have the curtesy to respond to my answers. Irenaeus has take trouble to answer far more questions. You owe him a response too. Don't run away when your theory starts to fall down your legs.
The thread is too young for such accusations
Hmmmm. Explain the accusation, Simon.
I think Simon is telling me that I should not accuse WMS brother of running away. Simon, I was not accusing but predicting based oin the past.
IIRC he has done that before.
But now that you mention it, I do not like the idea of him setting us such a huge quiz and not being available to promptly deal with our answers. One entire day and more away from his quiz paper is not right.
You know they have to worship Ahang and Zhang on Saturday . Zion is busy today. I’m guessing for him.
Paul argued with Peter
And the entire premise of the thread remains invalid
WMS brother wrote:
I repeat that until we can become undivided in observing even the most basic and fundamental truths, such as sabbath, once per year passover, and once per year ressurection day, it is pointless for me to try to persuade you.
Unfortunately those are what you call fundamental truths. My idea of what is fundamental truth may not correspond with yours even though we both use the bible as our source. Can you at least see that?
But for the sake of curtesy I will respond to IrenaeusFTW's thorough reply, hopefully it will also adress the other questions posed.
>"Tell me what is Christ's New Name, for isn't written he will have a New Name?"
>>"Can you refer me to the specific verse you are referencing?"
Revelation 3:12
"I [Jesus] will also write on them my new name."
You also quote Rev 2:17 for this claim. Let us not get into the meaning of the verse. Suffice it to say that this verse as interpreted by you can allow the claim for any name on earth.
>Tell me which nation God is referring to, when he declares a man will come from the east?
>>Can you refer me to the specific verse you are referencing?
Isaiah 46
"11Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man of My purpose from a far country. Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass."
It is well established that the bird of prey from the East was the Persian Emperor Cyrus. He's been there done that.
>Jesus says that the sign of the fig tree will mark his coming and the end of the age, can you tell me what is the Fig tree?
>>Exactly the things He said. Prophecies can have multiple layers of fulfilment. The destruction of Jerusalem was a "minor apocalypse" and the end will be similar. http://www.audiosancto.org/categories/end-times.php
So then what time period is the time period where the fig tree's leaves are tender again even after being destroyed?
>Can you tell me what the bible means when it says that before the end, during the time of the fig tree, the sky will roll up like a scroll?
>>I am not sure what verse you are referencing.
The sixth seal, the one that gets opened right before the end.
Revelation 6:11 & 14
"11 … they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants … would be completed also."
"14 The sky was rolled up like a scroll, and all of the mountains and islands were moved from their places."
Before the end of the world, is there any event in history where something parts the skies and blows up mountains among islands?
Why don't we have a separate thread for the fig tree? The simile is much abused in these interpretations. It is very clear in the Rev 6 chapter that the fig tree is a simile and not a sign. The verse says nothing about it being during the time of the fig tree. Don't change the words of scripture. The signs are described and they have not happened yet.
>Can you tell me what possessed Jesus to rebuke Christians who believe in him and call them Lawless Ones?
>>Verse please?
Matthew 7:21
"21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven … Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name … 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; … YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’"
Once again changing scripture by attaching text in that manner.
Herein lies the problem.
I contend, that the Catholic Church and all of its doctrines are not legitimate. For that reason just quoted, in addition to many many other reasons.
You are free to hold your opinion but your basis is faulty as already explained.
There are very few people on this forum that have actually learned our studies in depth, proof in fact I should not have to be citing verses if you already knew what we preached. When I say, "we think there is a man who will come from the east" and then you say "what verse I don't know about that?" It should tell you that perhaps we have at least a decent reason to enjoy our freedom of religion, one which you might not understand.
But there are many among you who are confused about what we preach. They say "does WMS preach we are angels from heaven or not?" The mere fact that someone had to ask that question, should tell you that you are not yet ready to criticize others about recognizing our God.
Yet without actually knowing what the catholic church preaches but going on what you have been told, you find no hesitation in making accusations? When I ask "what verse?" my intention is to make sure I address the issue correctly and without bias. Your church has no clearly published information on its teaching for the non-member to refer to. So if I have not learned your studies in depth, your policy of insisting on baptism before teaching is to blame. On the other hand, the CC, which you vehemently oppose, has its teachings out in the open for anyone to examine.
In addition, though IranaeusFTW displays a very good attempt at learning history, there are many points which are still controversial and hotly debated.
Points that I contend, the WMS is perfectly in the right to observe.
They are your contentions and that does not make them the truth.
This remains: Until the most fundamental truths can be agreed upon in unison, such as the sabbath, passover, and ressurection day. I cannot persuade any of you.
If it is true that you are disagreeing with each other about such dates and whether or not they are important, examine yourselves.
For Christ is not divided. He does not have "denominations". There is one Christ, one teaching, and anything else is a Different Gospel.
When I feel that has been adressed, I may reply more.
OK, I'll ask you this which no other wmscog member has been willing to answer so far. List out the laws of Christ giving scripture reference for each. You keep using that as a stick to beat other Christians but never ever spell them out. Speaking of denominations and divisions among Christians, note one thing. We are all largely united that Jesus is THE Christ and not a christ. That is more than can be said about the wmscog. That is the biggest aspect of the Different Gospel that you guys preach.
deleted duplicate post
Emil wrote: Why don't we have a separate thread for the fig tree? The simile is much abused in these interpretations. It is very clear in the Rev 6 chapter that the fig tree is a simile and not a sign. The verse says nothing about it being during the time of the fig tree. Don't change the words of scripture. The signs are described and they have not happened yet.
Emil if you're going to refute something explain in depth, you haven't proved your point and wmsbrother doesn't have to accept your refute without explanation. Just throwing out a whole chapter doesn't do anything.
Hal wrote:
How many freaking names do you need? His new name will be Raymoan and he'll come from the Phillipines….
Three ^^
Emil wrote: You also quote Rev 2:17 for this claim. Let us not get into the meaning of the verse. Suffice it to say that this verse as interpreted by you can allow the claim for any name on earth
Wms Brother clearly shows that it's not just any name but also points out facts and prophecies which determine who it is.
Emil wrote: Yet without actually knowing what the catholic church preaches but going on what you have been told, you find no hesitation in making accusations? When I ask "what verse?" my intention is to make sure I address the issue correctly and without bias. Your church has no clearly published information on its teaching for the non-member to refer to. So if I have not learned your studies in depth, your policy of insisting on baptism before teaching is to blame. On the other hand, the CC, which you vehemently oppose, has its teachings out in the open for anyone to examine.
Your using his argument against him, he already pointed out the fact that you and most everyone on this site only knows what you have been told about us, and find no hesitation in making accusations. With bias.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Emil wrote: Why don't we have a separate thread for the fig tree? The simile is much abused in these interpretations. It is very clear in the Rev 6 chapter that the fig tree is a simile and not a sign. The verse says nothing about it being during the time of the fig tree. Don't change the words of scripture. The signs are described and they have not happened yet.
Emil if you're going to refute something explain in depth, you haven't proved your point and wmsbrother doesn't have to accept your refute without explanation. Just throwing out a whole chapter doesn't do anything.
I have explained it enough for wms brother to understand. Let him tell me that my explanation is not enough and ask for specific clarification.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Emil wrote: You also quote Rev 2:17 for this claim. Let us not get into the meaning of the verse. Suffice it to say that this verse as interpreted by you can allow the claim for any name on earth
Wms Brother clearly shows that it's not just any name but also points out facts and prophecies which determine who it is.
In which thread? This thread is mainly filled with questions which Irenaeus and I have attempted to answer. He has quoted many scriptures too but there is no coherent argument to show the name of ASH.
This is a thread which basically requires you guys to put questions, us to answer and you guys to challenge our answers.
Why don't you guys start a new thread with all the material to prove the new name is ASH? I would to participate in that thread. That way, we shall only focus on your claims and not say things based on our wrong understanding of your beliefs.
fromtheotherside wrote:
Emil wrote: Yet without actually knowing what the catholic church preaches but going on what you have been told, you find no hesitation in making accusations? When I ask "what verse?" my intention is to make sure I address the issue correctly and without bias. Your church has no clearly published information on its teaching for the non-member to refer to. So if I have not learned your studies in depth, your policy of insisting on baptism before teaching is to blame. On the other hand, the CC, which you vehemently oppose, has its teachings out in the open for anyone to examine.
Your using his argument against him, he already pointed out the fact that you and most everyone on this site only knows what you have been told about us, and find no hesitation in making accusations. With bias.
Why is that wrong? I am showing him that he cannot point a finger at others when 3 other fingers of his own hand point back at him. When you accuse others of raising issues without knowing the facts of your church, you must accept that your church is not open about its teachings. On the other hand when you blame Christians, you cannot do that based on assumptions because we are all far more open about our teachings and there is access to authentic teaching.
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